Star Wars: The Acolyte

[TheClient]

But Lucasfilm only cares about color and sexual preferences first before story.

I’m sorry, but I still do not see any evidence of this. Less diversity would not have improved any of the bad stories we have been given in the last decade.

J.J. Abrams was not a “diversity hire”. We never recovered from that.

 

[xipotec]

This has been a fascinating discussion. Lots of excellent points made respectfully.

Just a reminder that keeping it respectful will keep the discussion open.

A voice of reason.....

We can all hate it later when it's proven to be bad right?

But you know, even then.....

Still think Obi was a mostly decent story, marred by the inevitable child actor degradation and mis casting the villain.

 

[jye4ever]

I will give this show a chance.

I might like it.

I might hate it.

But i’m ready for my Gilroy Andor S2.

 

[SwedishHeat]

What happened to the the Creative process? It is gone and non existent. Why everything today is garbage. A movie/TV pitch no longer starts with an idea. It starts with the race/gender of the main character/protagonist and is then built around that ideal. You don't pitch a story, you pitch a diverse lead and cast. Story is second. "Lets make a diverse/female centric show. And hire an inexperienced LGBTQ+ writer/director to write that show". That was the beginning of the Acolyte. Not "Let's make a story for the fans that show an earlier period/time of the Jedi Order".

George Lucas' first writing credit was in 1967 for THX 1138, he wrote Star Wars in 77. So, 10 years experience. Leslye Headland's first writing credit is is in 2010, she wrote The Acolyte in 2024. That's 14 years of experience. Leslye Headland had MORE experience than George Lucas then they got their respective "big breaks." Regardless of the fact that Headland's big break was actually Russian Doll 5 years ago.

Where are you getting this "inexperienced" thing from?

 

[xipotec]

George Lucas' first writing credit was in 1967 for THX 1138, he wrote Star Wars in 77. So, 10 years experience. Leslye Headland's first writing credit is is in 2010, she wrote The Acolyte in 2024. That's 14 years of experience. Leslye Headland had MORE experience than George Lucas then they got their respective "big breaks." Regardless of the fact that Headland's big break was actually Russian Doll 5 years ago.

Where are you getting this "inexperienced" thing from?

Many people go off what they feel over actual facts....

Again mentioning their sexual orientation, tells you all you need to know.

I am pretty sure George Lucas is a closet homosexual , but that me. /s

 

[loki2371]

George Lucas' first writing credit was in 1967 for THX 1138, he wrote Star Wars in 77. So, 10 years experience. Leslye Headland's first writing credit is is in 2010, she wrote The Acolyte in 2024. That's 14 years of experience. Leslye Headland had MORE experience than George Lucas then they got their respective "big breaks." Regardless of the fact that Headland's big break was actually Russian Doll 5 years ago.

Where are you getting this "inexperienced" thing from?

First off Lucas created Star Wars. he wasn't hired to make it. So don't get that reference. And American Graffiti received widespread critical acclaim and was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Picture that year.

Have you actually looked at her experience?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslye_Headland#Filmography

She's only directed 2 movies and written 3 that no one has ever heard of. The rest is TV credits. None of which indicate she would be good at writing or directing an SciFi/Fantasy/Action tentpole movie from arguably the biggest franchise in Cinematic history. She has 0 experience in anything remotely related to Star Wars. She has never directed an action sequence of ANY kind, let alone lightsaber duels. She was cast for the role to be a female LGBTQ+ writer/director to expand Star Wars for the new "Modern" Audience. She was a casting choice by Kathleen Kennedy. Not hired for her experience as a suitable proper writer/director.

 

[jaztermareal]

From the man himself...

"Best has touched on the startling toll Jar Jar took on him previously, telling Wired he even got death threats. "I had people come to me and say: 'You destroyed my childhood'," he said. "That's difficult for a 25-year-old to hear."



I don't know about 'full' but it certainly has them. They're in every walk of life, there's no getting away from it.



Nothing wrong with having a negative response...



...but sometimes the negative responses go too far. It sounds like you're trying to justify the bad **** fans do and downplay what happens from time to time because it might reflect badly on you somehow?

Also, they're just films and TV. If the latest installment isn't to someones liking and it drives them to constantly rage on the internet, they need to get outside and get some fresh air.

bit busy so not got time to go digging this moment but he in the past said it was the media that bothered him. Also, for Jake Lloyd:

"However, can any of that really be traced back to harassment? Jake Lloyd’s mom doesn’t think Star Wars is to blame. “Everybody makes such a big deal about that. And it’s rather annoying to me because Jake was a little kid when that came out, and he didn’t really feel all that stuff because I didn’t let him online.” She says the paranoid schizophrenia was likely genetic and that a psychiatrist told her this was inevitable."

 

[SwedishHeat]

First off Lucas created Star Wars. he wasn't hired to make it. So don't get that reference. And American Graffiti received widespread critical acclaim and was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Picture that year.

Have you actually looked at her experience?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslye_Headland#Filmography

She's only directed 2 movies and written 3 that no one has ever heard of. The rest is TV credits. None of which indicate she would be good at writing or directing an SciFi/Fantasy/Action tentpole movie from arguably the biggest franchise in Cinematic history. She has 0 experience in anything remotely related to Star Wars. She has never directed an action sequence of ANY kind, let alone lightsaber duels. She was cast for the role to be a female LGBTQ+ writer/director to expand Star Wars for the new "Modern" Audience. She was a casting choice by Kathleen Kennedy. Not hired for her experience as a suitable proper writer/director.

Ah, I see. Sounds like moving the goalposts. She IS experienced, just not the kind that you feel is appropriate.

How did American Graffiti's success qualify George Lucas to write/direct Star Wars? Did Graffiti have space battles, lightsaber duels? Did it revolutionize visual effects? How did Graffiti's success prepare Lucas for Star Wars, and why does Headland's previous success with Russian Doll (which won awards as well) not prepare her for success on The Acolyte?

Or was American Graffiti, a completely different type of movie, written by Lucas based on his own experiences growing up?

Why is it okay for George Lucas, a straight man, to write/direct a movie about his experiences growing up? But it's not okay for Lesyle Headland, a gay woman, to write/direct a TV show that's influenced by her experiences growing up? What does sexual orientation have to do with anything? If nothing, why did you label Headland as "an inexperienced LGBTQ+ writer/director"? Could you have left the LGBTQ+ out, or is that relevant to the point you're making? If so, could you explain the relevance?

 

[jaztermareal]

I am zeroing in on this part right here because I think this quote is at the root of my misunderstanding.

How does this cast come at the expense of quality? Even as a knee-jerk irrational concern, I do not understand the connection. The story will be the story, no matter who was cast or their backgrounds.

If Rey had been switched to a male character, that would not suddenly make JJ Abrams a better writer. If Reva had been white, the OWK show would still be complete and utter trash.

To assume that a lack of white men telegraphs a worse story is to imply that more white men would have improved these things, which is bonkers to me! They would remain the same disappointing stories.

I think I answered that already in another post but basically because there are casting mandates due to DEI etc, mandates that also go hand in hand with mandates about what themes etc need to be included in the writing, people see the casting as a red flag. It indicates that there may be meddling on the writing side also. Casting can be entirely separate but folk have lost all goodwill and are unwilling to assume the best any more. As said before, if the writing is good and political messaging either is not there or is less one-sided and more nuanced, like in Andor, folk love it and embrace the diverse casting. All the cast in Andor were great for the most part so obviously cast because of their talent rather than pandering. he Acolyte could be the same (haven't seen the show yet so can't tell) but just based on the group shot only two of them look to be experienced actors with range (Carrie Anne who seems to die very early in the show and the Squid game guy). The rest are more unknown and the dudes mostly look like they belong in mens underwear catalogue. Such casting of good looking young guys with young women would normally occour in CW shows or soaps, so I think the knee jerk reaction is due to that. there is a subliminal message that the show will be low quality like a tv soap/CW show, even if the reality is not so

 

[jye4ever]

Ah, I see. Sounds like moving the goalposts. She IS experienced, just not the kind that you feel is appropriate.

How did American Graffiti's success qualify George Lucas to write/direct Star Wars? Did Graffiti have space battles, lightsaber duels? Did it revolutionize visual effects? How did Graffiti's success prepare Lucas for Star Wars, and why does Headland's previous success with Russian Doll (which won awards as well) not prepare her for success on The Acolyte?

Or was American Graffiti, a completely different type of movie, written by Lucas based on his own experiences growing up?

Why is it okay for George Lucas, a straight man, to write/direct a movie about his experiences growing up? But it's not okay for Lesyle Headland, a gay woman, to write/direct a TV show that's influenced by her experiences growing up? What does sexual orientation have to do with anything? If not, why did you label Headland as "an inexperienced LGBTQ+ writer/director"? Could you have left the LGBTQ+ out, or is that relevant to the point you're making? If so, could you explain the relevance?

Because George Lucas didn’t care about diversity breakdown % and sexual preference when creating his story where as a person’s color and sexual orientation is all that matters now when creating new stories at Lucasfilm especially one in a Galaxy Far Far Away from these agendas.

Lucasfilm FOUNDATION for world building starts with wrong priorities.

 

[jye4ever]

George Lucas didn’t say:

“Well the actor is white and heterosexual so his character HAS to come from that life experience and only white heterosexual males can provide input in the writing room.”

OR

“Lando is black so only blacks can provide the primary world building for the character.”

Marcia Lucas provided input for crying out loud.

But now everything is color and sexual orientation FIRST that is driving the world building.

Leslie literally said “Black input in the writing room was a primary mandate for the character building” the writers couldn’t move forward without that input.

Same goes for Oscars 2024 only black actors could read the acting history for the black actor nominations.

This agenda is DIVIDING humanity not bringing it together.

sigh

Whatever the toothpaste is out of the tube I don’t care anymore I already got one foot in the grave anyways lol

 

[loki2371]

Ah, I see. Sounds like moving the goalposts. She IS experienced, just not the kind that you feel is appropriate.

How did American Graffiti's success qualify George Lucas to write/direct Star Wars? Did Graffiti have space battles, lightsaber duels? Did it revolutionize visual effects? How did Graffiti's success prepare Lucas for Star Wars, and why does Headland's previous success with Russian Doll (which won awards as well) not prepare her for success on The Acolyte?

Or was American Graffiti, a completely different type of movie, written by Lucas based on his own experiences growing up?

Why is it okay for George Lucas, a straight man, to write/direct a movie about his experiences growing up? But it's not okay for Lesyle Headland, a gay woman, to write/direct a TV show that's influenced by her experiences growing up? What does sexual orientation have to do with anything? If nothing, why did you label Headland as "an inexperienced LGBTQ+ writer/director"? Could you have left the LGBTQ+ out, or is that relevant to the point you're making? If so, could you explain the relevance?

Ok. Like I said George Lucas is the creator of Star Wars. Its his vision and creation. There will never be anyone more qualified than him, whether you like what he did or not. Still unsure how you argue that logic.

Leslie Headland was hired by Kennedy to make a diverse agenda driven story. There's nothing false about that statement. She is creating her tale in Star Wars, rather than expanding the story and lore set forth by Lucas.

Yes Russian Doll was well received. Its a drama. I'm sure its a small minority of Star Wars fans that are also Russian Doll fans. Do you consider Star Wars a Drama 1st before a SciFi/Fantasy/Action movie? Are fans most favorite moments and memories the love story between Padme/Anakin, or the duels and space battles?

Maybe Headland will surprise everyone and it'll be great. But I'm not betting my money on it.

 

[jaztermareal]

Members on here are trying to explain why they are unhappy, and where the problem/disconnect lies. But other members want to keep bringing up the ists/phobes and anti this... They refuse to actually listen.

par for the course when online. lots of projection usually too

They complain that folk who are unhappy are assuming the worst and yet that is what they are doing, assuming the worst of those expressing negative opinions of the show/cast/directors statements etc. It cannot be that there is any valid complaints, it must be that the members are ists/phobes

 

[Wor-Gar]

The part I find most amusing is how they love to say how much they hate the past, yet they're unable to make anything but IP's from the past

Yes, THIS. Point!!!!!

 

[jaztermareal]

The part I find most amusing is how they love to say how much they hate the past, yet they're unable to make anything but IP's from the past

wasn't there a quote about that that became an internet meme back when Rings of Power trailer went up??

 

[Otomofan]

If a new project were announced that cast more white people, would we feel better about it?

No. I hate almost everything from every studio that's come out in the last 20 years. Casting has nothing to do with it. It's the writing. Everything starts with the writing. Dog **** is dog **** no matter who's paid to say the lines.

I've enjoyed posting here for over a decade, so I think I'm just gonna avoid this thread, despite how much fun it is to trash this show. At the end of the day, it's just an instantly-forgotten vanity project thrown together to pad the content on a corporation's failing streaming service. Surely not worth getting banned over.

Carry on.....

 

[TheClient]

I think I answered that already in another post but basically because there are casting mandates due to DEI etc, mandates that also go hand in hand with mandates about what themes etc need to be included in the writing, people see the casting as a red flag. It indicates that there may be meddling on the writing side also. Casting can be entirely separate but folk have lost all goodwill and are unwilling to assume the best any more. As said before, if the writing is good and political messaging either is not there or is less one-sided and more nuanced, like in Andor, folk love it and embrace the diverse casting. All the cast in Andor were great for the most part so obviously cast because of their talent rather than pandering. he Acolyte could be the same (haven't seen the show yet so can't tell) but just based on the group shot only two of them look to be experienced actors with range (Carrie Anne who seems to die very early in the show and the Squid game guy). The rest are more unknown and the dudes mostly look like they belong in mens underwear catalogue. Such casting of good looking young guys with young women would normally occour in CW shows or soaps, so I think the knee jerk reaction is due to that. there is a subliminal message that the show will be low quality like a tv soap/CW show, even if the reality is not so

We’re going in circles. You’ve explained the perceived correlation between diverse casts and story quality. I’m saying it’s an illusion that fandom would be better off snapping out of.

 

[TheClient]

Because George Lucas didn’t care about diversity breakdown % and sexual preference when creating his story where as a person’s color and sexual orientation is all that matters now when creating new stories at Lucasfilm especially one in a Galaxy Far Far Away from these agendas.

Lucasfilm FOUNDATION for world building starts with wrong priorities.

Lucasfilm’s priorities are messed up, but it’s really greed rather than “diversity”.

Again, J.J. Abrams was considered bankable. He was not a diversity hire. Bob Iger’s greed forced them all to release an Episode every 2 years. The ST never hd a chance under those conditions.

The Kenobi show started as a movie script written years earlier. Disney+ was hungry for shows so they stretched it out to 8 hours instead of 2, and ended up with garbage. It also never had a chance.

I admit that the Hollywood back-patting about inclusion is excessive and annoying, but it is absurd to pretend that diversity is an indicator of quality, better or worse.

 

[xipotec]

I think I answered that already in another post but basically because there are casting mandates due to DEI etc, mandates that also go hand in hand with mandates about what themes etc need to be included in the writing, people see the casting as a red flag. It indicates that there may be meddling on the writing side also. Casting can be entirely separate but folk have lost all goodwill and are unwilling to assume the best any more. As said before, if the writing is good and political messaging either is not there or is less one-sided and more nuanced, like in Andor, folk love it and embrace the diverse casting. All the cast in Andor were great for the most part so obviously cast because of their talent rather than pandering. he Acolyte could be the same (haven't seen the show yet so can't tell) but just based on the group shot only two of them look to be experienced actors with range (Carrie Anne who seems to die very early in the show and the Squid game guy). The rest are more unknown and the dudes mostly look like they belong in mens underwear catalogue. Such casting of good looking young guys with young women would normally occour in CW shows or soaps, so I think the knee jerk reaction is due to that. there is a subliminal message that the show will be low quality like a tv soap/CW show, even if the reality is not so

Well, that would rule out Helmsworth from
Anything he's done, cause he's got nothing to justify him taking on Thor before he did that Bit parts mostly, his most recognizable as a jock dufus, and Kirk's dad for about 6 minutes of screen time?

 

[TheClient]

At the end of the day, it's just an instantly-forgotten vanity project thrown together to pad the content on a corporation's failing streaming service. Surely not worth getting banned over.

I do not disagree! I’ve disliked nearly all the D+ shows and I could easily see this one also being super lame. But there are so many other things to complain about aside from the cast. It’s such a weird thing to focus on. Like trying to diagnose cancer with a horoscope.