Star Wars: The Acolyte

[jaztermareal]

Mmmmm, yeeeeaaahhhhh....I don't think 1's as a way of sticking it to Disney are somehow more valid as the 1's who are sticking it to the trolls, purely because it's a Disney property. It's a show rating, not a culture war rating.

I didn't say 1's sticking to disney, I think many 1's are how people feel. Like how TLJ is competent (just) on a film making level but some of the most insulting Star Wars content ever made. On one metric (as a movie) it is maybe 4/10, on the other (as Star Wars) it is arguably 1/10. People reviewing subjectively are more likely to give a 1/10 when angry vs 10/10 when happy, as anger/frustration/offense etc are more likely to illicit strong responses in humans than the opposite.


Basically, many 1/10's are peoples genuine feelings about the product, most 10/10's are not simply because of how human psychology works.

 

[Dave_W]

I. CAN.NOT. WAIT. FOR. EPISODE 3!

 

[Dave_W]

Basically, many 1/10's are peoples genuine feelings about the product, most 10/10's are not simply because of how human psychology works.

I'm not buying that argument. Sorry.

 

[jaztermareal]

So, its dropping at a steady rate as people tune in and view. Monday would be the key after the viewings on the weekend. I would imagine other than the must sees, that would be when the most viewings happen.

Personally, I'm waiting to see what happens next week after ep3 airs and how people take to the lore changing episode. Will it go as low as the teens?

I actually decided to read spoilers and the lore changing ep def invalidates something from the PT but the other aspect of it is in line with Filoni established stuff so not as lore breaking as some say. Still bad though.

 

[Mandible]

I am sure that had he gone around talking endlessly about the lesbian characters in the show (Cinta and Vel) people would have been less likely to give the show a chance. People want to know how good a story and how much effort you put into making it the best show possible (Gilroy approach), not about who is sleeping with who, whether the cast mostly has outies or innies or what hue of skin tone is on screen at any time (the usual Disney approach). This show was handicapped before even starting the race due to the marketing. Even if it ends up good in the end many will have skipped it due to all the current day stuff in the run up to the show releasing.

I think it's biggest handicap is that normies wouldn't know who the **** "Andor" is.

You walk up to anyone across 90% of the planet and say Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, etc they know who they are.

Ahsoka would have suffered numbers loses as well for that reason. The Mandalorian was an anomaly because of "the kid" - that took off like wildfire and even non SW people were watching it because of him.

 

[jaztermareal]

I'm not buying that argument. Sorry.

You don't have to. But the psychology behind it is well established.

 

[Asta]

I get that, but it seemed odd to only imagine how bad it would be taking away the false positives and not the false negatives as well.

The 1/10s obviously didn't like it, and would likely have given it 0/10 if they could.

The 10/10s admitted it wasn't actually worth 10/10.


Personally there are two things holding The Acolyte to around 5/10: the integral blandness of what's on screen, and the comments by creators expressing their intentions.

It's the first series that felt to me like a hijack for other means. Didn't they say they wanted writers that knew nothing about Star Wars? If so then Star Wars is just being used as the carrier transport for something else, rather than having creators who love its universe relishing the chance to bring it to life.

So they take something that's popular with a large audience, and use it to promote an 'agenda'.

The 'agenda' itself is not the problem. I believe people should be able to live the way that makes them happy, as long as it doesn't adversely affect the lives of others, or is illegal for good reason.

The problem is that it's so overt and total, to the exclusion of any form of balance.

Balance is integral to the philosophy of Star Wars, or it probably was before the Force became a 'thread' (!)


The low votes are telling Disney that they went too far this time. Not just clumsy on screen, but combative behind it. Being combative elicited a response in kind. So yes, review bombing is no doubt in effect and partly responsible for the low ratings.

 

[Mandible]

You don't have to. But the psychology behind it is well established.

No point arguing - the proof was in the pudding, the concerns were validated, and now there's going to be some lashing out and tantrums.

 

[loki2371]

I'd have to agree in that any 10/10 reviews are not based on truth. Hardly anything in life is perfect. I've watched thousands upon thousands of movies and TV shows in my life. And I don't think any are perfect. Even watching my favorites from a "love it" perspective, I don't thing I could give anything a perfect score.

Everything has flaws in some aspect. Instead of a single score, if reviews were say broken down into 3 or 4 categories (story, acting, design...) and then averaged at the end its implausible everything would be a 10/10. A 9/10 would be the pinnacle.

 

[Dave_W]

No point arguing - the proof was in the pudding, the concerns were validated, and now there's going to be some lashing out and tantrums.

It's not a tantrum, it's just highly conveniant for you. "The ones who agree with me are correct, those who don't are lying."

 

[Dave_W]

The 1/10s obviously didn't like it, and would likely have given it 0/10 if they could.

The 10/10s admitted it wasn't actually worth 10/10.

The 1/10's had some people sticking it to Disney but didn't say so.

The 10/10s had some people actually admitting they were fudging the numbers.

It's not difficult, the SJW's and the 'not my SW' crowd were both trying to manipulate the scores. Some 1's were genuine, some 10's were. Seems like there's conformation bias at play here.

But I'm not getting into the weeds of pointless online reviews.

 

[Dave_W]

Did this guy falsely give it a 10?

 

[Mandible]

It's not a tantrum, it's just highly conveniant for you. "The ones who agree with me are correct, those who don't are lying."

Actually, I gave you a "Like" in you post 1116 - and have many other times I agree with you. They're normally comments when I believe you're being objectively constructive.

I was even going to reply to your post 1120, which I also think is a really good, fair point - but I didn't bother because I didn't think you would reciprocate.

At no point have I called you or anyone a "lier" either.

But defending something that is clearly not gelling with the wider community and then saying that's people's concerns weren't validated (even by your own admission stating it's average), is just emotionally driven replies.

 

[Asta]

The 1/10's had some people sticking it to Disney but didn't say so.

For being so inept and combative, Disney deserve people "sticking" it to them.


In between other series I'm still working my way through a complete rewatch of Buffy and Angel.

So many times I find myself struck by the quality of the writing and performances. The poignancy of certain scenes, the relationships between characters.

Then I watch the first two episodes of The Acolyte and am struck by the lack of quality of the writing and performances, and its failure to elicit any emotion at all.

There were 'messages' in Buffy and Angel too, but I don't think they were screamed from the rooftops by the creators and actors. Rather, they formed part of that universe, and were allowed to evolve naturally with characters worth caring about.

 

[Dave_W]

Actually, I gave you a "Like" in you post 1116 - and have many other times I agree with you. They're normally comments when I believe you're being objectively constructive.

I was even going to reply to your post 1120, which I also think is a really good, fair point - but I didn't bother because I didn't think you would reciprocate.

At no point have I called you or anyone a "lier" either.

But defending something that is clearly not gelling with the wider community and then saying that's people's concerns weren't validated (even by your own admission stating it's average), is just emotionally driven replies.

The 'lying' part was a sweeping over generalization, it wasn't aimed at anyone specific.

I just fail to believe that it's only the 1's that are genuine between the two extremes. The show is the usual average Disney fare, some will love it, others will absolutely hate it. People in both camps will rate it to the extreme for one reason or another. It's amusing people struggle to believe that others might genuinely like it.

 

[Asta]

The 'lying' part was a sweeping over generalization, it wasn't aimed at anyone specific.

I just fail to believe that it's only the 1's that are genuine between the two extremes. The show is the usual average Disney fare, some will love it, others will absolutely hate it. People in both camps will rate it to the extreme for one reason or another. It's amusing people struggle to believe that others might genuinely like it.

Wait, is that the argument? That none of the 10s were genuine?

I wouldn't say that. As much as the ones who genuinely hate the series might give it a 1/10, there are undoubtedly those who, for whatever reason, love it enough to give it a 10/10.

For me it's hard to grasp what anyone could see in the first two episodes worthy of 10/10, but everyone's different.

(There are some particularly powerful episodes of Buffy that really get me, and would be worthy of a 10/10 if I were rating them. Even though they might not be 10/10 in every area, the way an episode leaves you feeling can merit the perfect score).

 

[Mandible]

The 'lying' part was a sweeping over generalization, it wasn't aimed at anyone specific.

I just fail to believe that it's only the 1's that are genuine between the two extremes. The show is the usual average Disney fare, some will love it, others will absolutely hate it. People in both camps will rate it to the extreme for one reason or another. It's amusing people struggle to believe that others might genuinely like it.

And the funny part of that, is that we all have "guilty pleasure movies" - even though we know they're really bad, something just makes them easy to watch.

I was blown away by the teaser trailer for The Batman, but the movie didn't deliver for me and in many places really irks me (flying head first into to bridge and walking away, bomb to the face, etc), but I can't stop watching the damn thing because it's a visual masterpiece - and there are some really great moments.

Is it a 10 that many stated - I can't agree, but maybe to them they can look past the things that annoy me, (and as you say). it genuinely is a 10. And vice versa, I know a lot of people that call the movie The Napman, because they think it's an absolute bore!

 

[xipotec]

The one thing I will say is that some overly low ratings could be due to feeling insulted (TLJ was not a 1/10 movie, it had redeeming qualities such as the visuals, some of the acting, VFX etc) but many rated it 1/10 because of how it damaged Star Wars as a framchise. So, many 1 star reviews are not artificial review bombing but rather overly emotional upset fans. That means that their rating is genuine in their eyes while the "rating it 10 to stick it to the trolls" folk are obviously not rating it genuinely from their own point of view. So while the 1/10's are not useful they do usually show more of the fanbase sentiment towards the show than the 10/10's. Still not worth counting but at least in that aspect more valuable for determining how fans feel.

Oh some would have you believe it was in negative territory.

The rabid negative fan base "voices" alway drown out the moderate and positive ones.

Thats with just about everything in life.

 

[Dave_W]

Wait, is that the argument? That none of the 10s were genuine?

I wouldn't say that. As much as the ones who genuinely hate the series might give it a 1/10, there are undoubtedly those who, for whatever reason, love it enough to give it a 10/10.

For me it's hard to grasp what anyone could see in the first two episodes worthy of 10/10, but everyone's different.

(There are some particularly powerful episodes of Buffy that really get me, and would be worthy of a 10/10 if I were rating them. Even though they might not be 10/10 in every area, the way an episode leaves you feeling can merit the perfect score).

​

jaztermareal is saying that most of the 1's are genuine because the show is bad and people hate it, but most, or a least a lot, of the 10s are fake because a minority have admitted to voting 10 to counter the 1's.

My argument is that just because a small minority on one side has admitted something and the other hasn't, doesn't mean that's how things are actually going down.

..as I understand it at least.

 

[a-dev]

For being so inept and combative, Disney deserve people "sticking" it to them.


In between other series I'm still working my way through a complete rewatch of Buffy and Angel.

So many times I find myself struck by the quality of the writing and performances. The poignancy of certain scenes, the relationships between characters.

Then I watch the first two episodes of The Acolyte and am struck by the lack of quality of the writing and performances, and its failure to elicit any emotion at all.

There were 'messages' in Buffy and Angel too, but I don't think they were screamed from the rooftops by the creators and actors. Rather, they formed part of that universe, and were allowed to evolve naturally with characters worth caring about.

Buffy and Angel were excellent. I remember watching them on TV during covid for the first time in many years and came away feeling the same as you - damn they were good. And they truly were at the forefront of 'representation' back then and yet I can't help but suspect they'd be considered not nearly diverse enough now, perhaps even frowned upon.