Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[Khev]

Are me and jye the only ones here with sons that were the same age as we were when the OT came out? jye what'd your boy think of TFA? Did it finally get him into SW or is he still all about Marvel?

 

[JAWS]

Are me and jye the only ones here with sons that were the same age as we were when the OT came out? jye what'd your boy think of TFA? Did it finally get him into SW or is he still all about Marvel?

My youngest is the same age.. My oldest is 4 years older then I was...

There is just too much competition nowadays. They like SW OK... But it's not like it was for us back in the day... I mean there was SW and really nothing else. Now you have Marvel, Jurassic Park, Transformers, Harry Potter, DC, etc.... SW is just not the spectacle for them as it was for us.

However like I said earlier... Killing off Han really pissed off my oldest.. He blames Disney and says George Lucas would have never let that happen.. What's funny is that he has never seen those interviews with GL about killing Han and how he would not let it happen. Just thought that was amusing.

 

[JAWS]

Well if you go back to SW being a "saga" and not separate trilogies (remember ESB and ROTJ were always marketed as "The Saga Continues") then TFA is the fourth film of the saga and the tone of the series has gone light/dark/light/dark. Hard to imagine Episode VIII going "ROTJ light" but unless something worse than death happens to a major character I don't see how it can be darker than TFA.

I mean my gosh it wasn't bad enough that Kylo skewered Han but after he stabbed him he *shoved it in farther* causing additional pain to one of our favorite heroes of all time. Talk about DARK.

I sure hope it does not go any darker.. I feel that this is by far the darkest of the series.. I think it was one of the other reasons I am not the biggest fan... I don't mind dark but with Han's death and the realization that things actually got worse for our hero's since ROTJ.. It was a bit of a punch in the gut.

 

[MegaPrime33]

In any of these types of franchises, there is always hope for any character to come back from the dead, so never say never. We all know Harrison has wanted Han to die since Empire so this is of no surprise here. He served his purpose in the story and needed to die to have his son go further down the dark path. I'm fine that he died. I'd be fine if Leia died too. Luke is the only one who we need further story from.

 

[DiFabio]

I sure hope it does not go any darker.. I feel that this is by far the darkest of the series.. I think it was one of the other reasons I am not the biggest fan... I don't mind dark but with Han's death and the realization that things actually got worse for our hero's since ROTJ.. It was a bit of a punch in the gut.

I think Revenge of the Sith is the darkest out of all of them.

- the beheading of a defenseless, unarmed (hehe) "villain"
- "good guy" turning into a bad guy
- betrayal
- most loss of limbs and appendages
- the Jedi, the good guys, getting 86ed (or 66ed) in the back
- little Jedi kids hiding from Stormtroopers, only to be slaughtered by someone they trusted
- choking a pregnant woman
- friends fighting to the death
- Anakin getting all of his limbs lobbed off
- the visual treat that is Anakin screaming in agonizing pain as his body is engulfed in flames
- Vader moaning in pain on an operating table as mechanical limbs plug into him
- Palpatine basically being the personification of the Devil

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Ain't nothing light about getting thrown into a vag that digests you for thousands of years, or being a trooper that gets strangled by a little midget in a furry costume then turned into a musical instrument, or getting electrocuted as your dad takes up to a minute to make up his mind as some mindless slave.


On a serious note, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru being reduced to burnt skeletons from trigger happy Sandtroopers or Luke and the gang getting crushed to death in the trash compactor was more traumatizing to me than "oh noesss, Han Solo was made into a sculpture", or "the empire won one battle and Vader is Luke's father!"

Maybe it was Obi Wan who burned Luke's Uncle and Aunt? Uncle Ben was a manipulative liar after all.

 

[MegaPrime33]

Maybe it was Obi Wan who burned Luke's Uncle and Aunt? Uncle Ben was a manipulative liar after all.

Obi Wan was probably fuming after that "crazy old man" comment.

 

[Khev]

I sure hope it does not go any darker.. I feel that this is by far the darkest of the series.. I think it was one of the other reasons I am not the biggest fan...

I think TFA made the right move in doing what it took to make SW a relevant emotional experience again. The "pain" (for lack of a better word) of the prequels, which was so divisive, so damaging (even to the point of turning people away from SW entirely,) so deep that in order to come back we all needed an equal or greater pain that reminded us of why we love these characters all over again. With the PT there was always going to be an "upsetting" aspect of SW, and I feel that with Han's death and the way it played out TFA said we're going to steal the prequels thunder in providing an upsetting experience, but this thunder-stealing upset will bring you back to SW, not drive you further away. That's just my take on it, doesn't mean I'm right or that it "worked" for everyone. But I think it was the right move.

I don't need to remember my (figurative) tears over the SE's or tears over the prequels because I shed bigger tears for Han. Now Star Wars is back and can continue on as it always could have.

I don't mind dark but with Han's death and the realization that things actually got worse for our hero's since ROTJ.. It was a bit of a punch in the gut.

ROTJ did provide us the Disney-esque happily ever after where you kill the bad guy and the spell is permanently lifted from the land and everyone frolicks and parties until peacefully dying of old age. But the conflicts of ROTJ were so freaking easy, with no sacrifices made that it always seemed like a "cheap" happily ever after. So I'm glad TFA rectified that.

If Han never joined the Rebellion then he probably would have either gotten killed by one of Jabba's men or died in some bar fight within a few years of the events of ANH. But because of his involvement he got to marry (assumedly) a princess, have at least one kid, and have some truly nice years with a bit of fame and fortune on the side. His death was tragic but it occurred while he was fighting for the #1 thing in his life and his "legacy" got to live on with his hand picked successor to pilot the Falcon. I feel like what happened to him was "wrong," (he didn't even get to say a proper goodbye to Chewie, his last words were "I'll meet you right back here," ) but in all the "right" ways, IMO. Ways that just make me like his character more and make me believe that his four movie legacy will go down as one of the great character arcs in all of cinema.

As for my own son (6 years old), he openly wept in the theater, during the credits, and again outside when we sat down to talk about the movie to the point where I genuinely thought we'd have to go home and trash his Kylo Ren costume and figures. But he still loves Kylo Ren, because he's so much more invested in the story now.

My 9 year old daughter absolutely loves Rey, a heroine who couldn't have come at a better time to give girls a genuinely cool hero as an alternative to Twilight's Bella, Catniss, the Divergent chick, or any given Disney Princess.

 

[DiFabio]

I still don't get how the "Princess" Leia or "Queen" Amildala thing works.

 

[Khev]

Here’s How Hayden Christensen Was Supposed to Appear in Star Wars: The Force Awakens | Vanity Fair

 

[DiFabio]

Seems like they had a bunch for Force Awakens that is being saved/carried over for 8.

 

[Khev]

I kind of got the impression that anything that tied directly into the prequels Abrams just said, "eh, let's just save that for VIII since I won't be doing that one..."

No Hayden, no mention of the Trade Federation or Separatists when Maz summarizes generations of conflict (just "the Sith, Empire, and First Order.")

Also the art book depicts wrecked battle droids and separatist ships among the junk of Jakku but they are nowhere to be seen in the finished film.

 

[Rorywan]

Yeah the art book is crazy. It has so many story variations in it you can really see how they were clutching grasping for the right story. The amount of material that is becoming apparent now that was cut from TFA suggests Disney getting heavy handed or hold over martial for VIII. Characters, dialogue even toys suggest that TFA was much more elaborate and revealing than it is now.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well, if you hated The Force Awakens, then you'll absolutely abhor...


Disney's Animated Musical version...

Including the hit songs....

"They took my Han"... sung by Chewbacca

"I'm mad as Hell"... sung by Kylo Ren

"Bee-Bop Blues" ... sung by BB-8 and the cast at Maz' castle

 

[Khev]

Yeah the art book is crazy. It has so many story variations in it you can really see how they were clutching grasping for the right story. The amount of material that is becoming apparent now that was cut from TFA suggests Disney getting heavy handed or hold over martial for VIII. Characters, dialogue even toys suggest that TFA was much more elaborate and revealing than it is now.

Part of the confusion with the art book is that it features concept art for Michael Arndt's outline that was based off of Lucas' treatment from just before the sale to Disney. Then Disney took over, brought in Abrams and Kasdan, and went their own way separate from Lucas/Arndt. So the art book contains scenes featuring Kira and Sam (teens from Lucas' treatment) intermixed with Abrams/Kasdan ideas, all drawn by the same artists.

 

[Magpie 7]

Yeah the art book is crazy. It has so many story variations in it you can really see how they were clutching grasping for the right story. The amount of material that is becoming apparent now that was cut from TFA suggests Disney getting heavy handed or hold over martial for VIII. Characters, dialogue even toys suggest that TFA was much more elaborate and revealing than it is now.

Were they...or did they have some really good ideas that they put into concept art to try and separate what they thought would be better on screen?

The two 12" figures with vehicles come from deleted scenes, Poe ejects with Finn and lands near a speeder which he takes and is rescued by Jess Pava. The mini-Walkers were cut along with a lot of footage of Snowtroopers patrolling Starkiller Base. If they include all the deleted scenes on the DVD it'll add up to over an hour.

 

[Rorywan]

The speaking Kylo doll has lines not in the film. He is talking to Rey in a knowing way. "Is it true your just a scavenger?" "Join me and we can destroy the last jedi. Etc he knows who she is. The church of the force on Jaaku? The sacred village.
The snow troopers on the falcon, Maz handing over the sabre to Leia, Ren in the forest, Rey stealing the first order troop carrier etc loads of stuff. Seems like most of it was shot.

 

[Khev]

That first teaser shot of Rey looking over her shoulder on her speeder as if she is fleeing some unknown pursuer.

 

[JAWS]

I think Revenge of the Sith is the darkest out of all of them.

- the beheading of a defenseless, unarmed (hehe) "villain"
- "good guy" turning into a bad guy
- betrayal
- most loss of limbs and appendages
- the Jedi, the good guys, getting 86ed (or 66ed) in the back
- little Jedi kids hiding from Stormtroopers, only to be slaughtered by someone they trusted
- choking a pregnant woman
- friends fighting to the death
- Anakin getting all of his limbs lobbed off
- the visual treat that is Anakin screaming in agonizing pain as his body is engulfed in flames
- Vader moaning in pain on an operating table as mechanical limbs plug into him
- Palpatine basically being the personification of the Devil

I really did not even think of the PT when I said that. I guess I really have erased them from my mind.

But yes, ROTS was darker.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The speaking Kylo doll has lines not in the film. He is talking to Rey in a knowing way. "Is it true your just a scavenger?" "Join me and we can destroy the last jedi. Etc he knows who she is. The church of the force on Jaaku? The sacred village.
The snow troopers on the falcon, Maz handing over the sabre to Leia, Ren in the forest, Rey stealing the first order troop carrier etc loads of stuff. Seems like most of it was shot.

I'm glad that line wasn't in the film. Too similar to Vader asking Luke to join him to take down the Emperor and rule the galaxy.