Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Han gave them both guns.

Well that fixes everything....same way Rey fixed the Falcon

 

[Khev]

She already has his lightsaber and friends, that look at the end is probably him thinking that she's there to kill him.

"Say, those are nice Jedi robes."

 

[DiFabio]

"Say, those are nice Jedi robes."
https://theactionelite.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/terminator2_23_chouette.jpg

 

[Khev]

Well that fixes everything....same way Rey fixed the Falcon

I bypassed your nitpick.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

She looks kind of cute there


I'm actually excited to see what Luke Skywalker can do in episode 8, assuming he's "grandmaster" level. I don't want to see him just as a mentor a la Yoda in ESB and ROTJ. They also have to find a way to explain his exile instead of fighting Kylo Ren and the new empire.

 

[Star Puffs]

Morphosis you did make a few good points I must admit, particularly concerning Luke's entire background compared to Rey's.

It's not a good comparison because ANH was a ground-breaking film, made during a completely different era of film-making. The implausibility of Luke being able to fly an X-Wing, much less be victorious under the circumstances, would definitely get called out today by critics. Luke gets a pass due to nostalgia.

Rey is getting judged by the standards of 2015. It's a broad change in narrative expectations among audiences, not an issue of gender.

Making us ignore the issues with Luke is also ANH overall being a well-crafted film, including giving Luke an identifiable personality. Rey being overpowered is just one aspect of her being poorly characterized in general, which is in turn just one facet of a film that has an incoherent plot, poor dialogue, weak inter-personal development, etc.

 

[Sachiel]

My favorite part was when Han Solo gave her a gun...even though Finn is supposedly the one who's a "great" shooter Rey took BB-8, took the iconic Lightsaber, Chewie, and the god dammed Falcon in her first film. She even stole Leia's hug from Chewie, who was friends with her dead ex husband. Luke better be careful.

She's a collector.

Waitaminute, isn't Benico del Toro in VIII? Holeeesheeeet.

 

[crows]

She looks kind of cute there


I'm actually excited to see what Luke Skywalker can do in episode 8, assuming he's "grandmaster" level. I don't want to see him just as a mentor a la Yoda in ESB and ROTJ. They also have to find a way to explain his exile instead of fighting Kylo Ren and the new empire.

 

[crows]

Here's a question....

Vader at the end of Jedi found his humanity and he became "Good again" by saving his son.
Then at the end he shows up as a good jedi Force Ghost . with the other ones. right?

How come then he doesnt try to speak with Kylo Ren and try to tell him that what he is doing is bad? Why cant he contact Kylo the same way Obi contacted Luke and Yoda in the other movies?

Shouldnt Anakin's ghost try to save his Grandson?

I think I might have just found the biggest plot hole in Star wars history...

 

[Captain Clown]

I thought it was because Obi-Wan contacted Luke through the force since they both shared it, and Kylo's mind was stuck in the dark side; So he couldn't have contacted him if he wanted to.

...And because the movie would've ended a lot quicker if Darth Vader, his hero, told him to stop what he was doing.

 

[RIDDICK]

I think I might have just found the biggest plot hole of "The Forced Awakening"...

Fixed.

...And because the movie would've ended a lot quicker if Darth Vader, his hero, told him to stop what he was doing.

The Force ghost of old Anakin is not Darth Vader. It'd actually make for a better narrative where Kylo struggles between Soap-creame leader Spook (Demon) and Anakin's ghost (Angel).

 

[morphosis]

It's not a good comparison because ANH was a ground-breaking film, made during a completely different era of film-making. The implausibility of Luke being able to fly an X-Wing, much less be victorious under the circumstances, would definitely get called out today by critics. Luke gets a pass due to nostalgia.

Rey is getting judged by the standards of 2015. It's a broad change in narrative expectations among audiences, not an issue of gender.

Making us ignore the issues with Luke is also ANH overall being a well-crafted film, including giving Luke an identifiable personality. Rey being overpowered is just one aspect of her being poorly characterized in general, which is in turn just one facet of a film that has an incoherent plot, poor dialogue, weak inter-personal development, etc.

i respect your opinion of course , but that isn't everyone's opinion. The reason i disagree is because there are millions all over the world that love Rey. Judging by the sheer numbers who went to see it and give it an extremely positive review, and that Rey is now a pop-culture icon as well as a feminist icon, people have really connected with Rey. Just like they connected with Luke in '77. I think they make good comparisons because she is essentially Luke of todays generation. And if you follow the characters, and what they went through in their lives, I would easily say Rey was far more prepared to channel her Force Sensitivity and skills than Luke. Luke was completely held back from everything by his Uncle Owen. Rey on the other hand learned survival skills all on her own. Her will to stay alive and fight for everything she had makes her more prepared in my eyes. Luke went from moisture farmer to x-wing pilot with no training within a day or two. Rey at least had been teaching herself her own style of combat training, learned how to fly ships, and learned the ins and outs of imperial ships by scavaging through them, and learned mechanics all for about 10 years. Then once she realized she had the Force, it came naturally to her. Why? We don't really know just yet.

There is a lot more to her story that we haven't seen yet. time will tell once 8 & 9 come out. That was the purpose of TFA. We were introduced to Rey, and left us with why is she so powerful. Why is she force sensitive? Is she connected to Luke or other Jedi? Was she trained when she was young? This is all compelling storytelling because we are wanting to know more.

 

[Star Puffs]

Rey is now a pop-culture icon as well as a feminist icon, people have really connected with Rey.

Another essay that is positive about her, but honest about the stock character she represents is:
https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/19/10626896/star-wars-the-force-awakens-rey-mary-sue-feminist

She isn't a fully realized character, which is what that earlier essay I posted articulated in detail. She's this stone-face woman refusing to be the polar-opposite trope: the damsel-in-distress. She's so powerful because to concede any weakness is ideologically intolerable, even if it harms the story.

Abrams made it even worse by botching her basic personality sketch as well, which is just one part of the train-wreck of character development that is the film. That is she could have been overpowered but at the same time have a well-developed personality.

So if you are open to liking Star Wars, but don't find Rey a compelling lead, then it sort of kills the new trilogy, right?

 

[ZaCHw117]

She isn't a fully realized character, which is what that earlier essay I posted articulated in detail. She's this stone-face woman refusing to be the polar-opposite trope: the damsel-in-distress. She's so powerful because to concede any weakness is ideologically intolerable, even if it harms the story.

thats because we still have 2 movies with her.

And she did have weaknesses, how about when she didn't want to leave Jakku because of all the past holding her there? That's a weakness.

What about not being able to abandond a droid for a years supply of rations? That's a weakness.

What about her not wanting anything to do with Luke's saber, thus refusing to actualy become who she needs? That's a weakness.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Rey really does seem to bring out the best in people.

I have no idea what the rage about her really is. For a movie that's essentially a fairy tale.

 

[Centurion]

Here's a question....

Vader at the end of Jedi found his humanity and he became "Good again" by saving his son.
Then at the end he shows up as a good jedi Force Ghost . with the other ones. right?

How come then he doesnt try to speak with Kylo Ren and try to tell him that what he is doing is bad? Why cant he contact Kylo the same way Obi contacted Luke and Yoda in the other movies?

Shouldnt Anakin's ghost try to save his Grandson?

I think I might have just found the biggest plot hole in Star wars history...

How to communicate post mortem is something that has to be learned. At least, this is how I understood it. It's not something Jedi's are able to do automatically.

At the end of Ep III is when Yoda says this to Obi Wan.

 

[ZaCHw117]

How to communicate post mortem is something that has to be learned. At least, this is how I understood it. It's not something Jedi's are able to do automatically.

Yoda even says this in ROTS with a equaling suprised look on his face when he's telling Obi Wan about Qui-Gon being able to learn this trick.

Vader's helmet may have negative energy as far as the force goes, and this is why Kylo talks to it. Not the other way around.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Maybe Snookie is blocking Kylo's vibe.

Maybe Grandpa will 'awaken' too and throw Snookie into a pit at the end again.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Maybe Snookie is blocking Kylo's vibe.

Maybe Grandpa will 'awaken' too and throw Snookie into a pit at the end again.

if by "awaken" you mean being an awful gweedo and "throw" you mean punch, i think you're onto something.

 

[morphosis]

Another essay that is positive about her, but honest about the stock character she represents is:
https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/19/10626896/star-wars-the-force-awakens-rey-mary-sue-feminist

She isn't a fully realized character, which is what that earlier essay I posted articulated in detail. She's this stone-face woman refusing to be the polar-opposite trope: the damsel-in-distress. She's so powerful because to concede any weakness is ideologically intolerable, even if it harms the story.

Abrams made it even worse by botching her basic personality sketch as well, which is just one part of the train-wreck of character development that is the film. That is she could have been overpowered but at the same time have a well-developed personality.

So if you are open to liking Star Wars, but don't find Rey a compelling lead, then it sort of kills the new trilogy, right?

yeah, i just don't agree. I dont think that previous article articulated a good argument at all. like i said it ignored the details as i pointed out but the author accepts Luke. Makes no sense to me.

I am trying to think why its so wrong that she refused to be the damsel in distress? She grew up with no one to help her. Why should she suspect anyone to help her now? When she sees Finn, Han and Chewie on Starkiller, she is surprised they came for her because why would she believe anyone would help her after being left on a planet by herself for 10 years. She had no help previously.

Not sure what you mean by: "botched her basic personality. she could have been overpowered but have a well developed personality"
Can you explain? not sure what you mean here?

My reaction was pointing out the flaws in that original article because the author accepted Luke "earning" his powers with less training than Rey, and the author wouldn't accept Rey who is stronger than Luke both physically and mentally at the same age because of her experiences. It comes off as being sexist even coming from a woman. Its a double standard. A guy can do these things, but a woman shouldn't be able to.

and i quote from the article: "she continues to foster a mindset that is damaging to real-world women succeeding in historically masculine roles."

That is an extremely sexist thing to say. So no woman should be able to succeed to be the leading hero because the leading hero is meant only for men? Thats the definition of sexism.

"Her fighting abilities isnt something she has earned?"
Completely disagree with because as i said over and over she has more fighting ability than Luke ever did. Luke did not have that much training by the time he faced Vader in ROTJ, yet he's considered a full fledged Jedi by ROTJ. He spent a few days with Yoda in ESB and left. So he is "super powered" too. Just like Rey. But people accept Luke because he's a guy, but some people like this author can't accept Rey because she's female. its such a double standard.

"Luke’s story basically says “if you persevere, and work hard to train your natural abilities, you can overcome great obstacles.” Rey’s story (so far) says “if you are magic, you can beat a man!”
This is where the author completely ignores Rey's past living on Jakkuu by herself for 10 years basically having to learn and train herself in everything things she did. She didnt just wake up and could be a mechanic. She learned these things for more than 10 years but because she's a woman, it can't be accepted? Rey has "preserved and worked hard" her entire life all by herself for 10 years. What did Luke do? he worked on a moisture farm his entire life, had no training for anything until he had a few hours with ObiWan and spent a few days with Yoda before he left. Yet he's a full fledged Jedi by ROTJ.

The Force gives you these enhanced abilities when your Force sensitive, neither would have done what they did if they were not Force Sensitive. If you can accept Luke did what he did, then to me you have to accept Rey doing what she did when she is stronger at that point in their lives at the same age because she has trained herself in so many area that Luke knew nothing about.

I know, we will debate this back n forth forever.