Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[a-dev]

Thanks for ruining that scene for me a-dev, thanks a lot. Never noticed that before now that's all I'll see.

First time I've ever seen it myself. A little easter egg for you there!

 

[morphosis]

Yep, thanks for that^ and the link you provided. I'm almost tempted to post it to certain folk on facebook but things simmered down and I don't want to publicly come across as being quite as bothered as I internally was on the night of the 'almost' argument.

Anyway, there it is. That article - and your post - illustrates the point I might have made if I hadn't been immediately silenced by the more rabid aspect of SJWism in society today. If they had let me finish they might have realised that ultimately




on a different subject look at John McClane's ankle in the above shot!

I read the article and disagree with all of it. The author missed and ignores huge details in the story and doesn't understand Star Wars lore. I can point out whats wrong with it very easily. And if you read the comments people wrote below the article a lot of them disagreed with the author as well.

When you read this article its clearly saying she shouldnt be that strong because she's female. I know she is trying to say the opposite, but when you read it, thats what she is saying. She tries to say Luke earned his powers but Rey didn't. I mean that is COMPLETE WRONG!! Rey earned her powers more than Luke ever did. Luke got his powers practically overnight, where Rey had been training herself almost her entire life once she was left on Jakkuu. The author ignores every single thing Rey did in her entire life on Jakkuu which was far greater training than Luke ever had. Plus you have to think of the Force as magical, and it can do amazing things for those who are sensitive to it. And the higher sensitivity you have the greater your powers are. And we don't know Rey's complete background just yet, but everything leans to that she has Jedi lineage. And the author says Rey didnt make any significant mistakes? What??? she made huge mistakes and it cost people their lives. Luke made similar mistakes too. They both made about the same amount of mistake when you compare TFA and ANH.

I dont agree with anything in that article. Its missing way too many details about Rey and saying Luke is better because he's a guy. And the author calls herself a feminist?

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah, one could argue that Luke's progression and evolution to become a Jedi was too quick and poorly done considering the amount of time he was training, but at least they tried and gave us some kind of explanation for his skills and abilities, such as the jedi mind tricks in ROTJ. Still, even in ROTJ he was far from competent as fighter or as a hero trying to rescue his friend in the beginning of the film.

I don't have a problem with a female character being "perfect" or unstoppable, even if it's the first film in a trilogy, as long as there is an explanation for it, a history or a back story than can easily be shown or mentioned by other characters like in many films that have a one man army type hero or anti hero. In the case of Connor and Ripley, they didn't start out as soldiers or warriors, but there was an explanation for their skills and mental toughness in the sequels. Rey, she mind blocked and mentally dominated Kylo, then easily walked out using a Jedi mind trick out of nowhere without any reason or explanation. Imagine Leia just walking out with a Jedi mind trick and escaping by the time Luke arrives to rescue her, it would almost invalidate Luke's rescue too wouldn't?

Now, if they retroactively explain that in the sequels, fine, but it's lazy writing, imo. This is not a tv show, it's a film and certain basic questions should be answered without the need of sequels.

ill just say you can hate on the movies all you want. I just don't get how you can enjoy anything when your analyzing things to death like this. if you can't wrap your head around the story by now, i dont know what to tell you other than just try and enjoy something. anything. Ive been on this site for many years and the same people say the same exact things about every movie. you pick apart details so much you loose every sense of enjoyment. Im not saying you have to love every movie made, but your reactions are always the same for everything. Now after all these years your questioning the SW Saga? man, i hate to be that miserable. Its not that difficult to understand. I understood the story when i was like 4. You all seem like you have completely lost what the story is about because your over analyzing it. If you have to question why Rey is perfect and a Mary Sue , man, i kind of feel sorry for you because you just can't enjoy things.

good morning and good luck

 

[Wor-Gar]

look at Anakin, he could fly pod racers better than anyone at 9 years old and also flew a star fighter by the end on PM. No one says anything that he shouldn't be able to do that..

Just about everyone I've ever seen this movie with mentions that.

If it helps you, I never questioned Evelyn Salt.

 

[crows]

 

[Khev]

Rey, she mind blocked and mentally dominated Kylo, then easily walked out using a Jedi mind trick out of nowhere without any reason or explanation.

I am of the opinion that Abrams simply botched the execution of Rey's mind trick on the Stormtrooper. To hear his explanation on the 3D blu-ray commentary she was naturally strong in the Force and had simply used the momentum of overpowering Kylo's mind trick to do the same to the Trooper. If you can allow for someone to have latent raw power in the Force then his explanation makes perfect sense.

The problem with the scene as is IMO is that she doesn't come across as this raw talent stumbling through the process of overpowering a simple Stormtrooper with the Force because Abrams allows Ridley to deliver her "you will loosen these restraints" line in pretty much the EXACT same cadence as Old Ben on Tatooine when he mind tricked the Troopers about the droids. In doing that Rey becomes disconnected from her surprise victory over Kylo and suddenly seems to behave not as a raw power but as a decades trained Jedi using a very precise and specific skill.

Her scene with the Trooper should have been a natural extension of ONLY her encounter with Kylo, not a reference to veteran Jedi like Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn saying things to people's faces and then making them repeat them back as they comply with instructions. Kylo didn't use the Force that way, and it was a confusing moment for many in the audience, including myself, as to why Rey made that leap. Abrams just took the OT parroting one step too far in that moment.

If Rey heard the Trooper's comlink, closed her eyes, and then said, "Trooper, you are afraid of disobeying your Master. Your master will be angry unless you loosen these restraints..." then we'd go "oh, that's an extension of her 'you are afraid you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader' revelation." But instead our initial thought was, "wait, she resisted Ren and is an expert on techniques perfected by Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn now??" And it was all because Abrams allowed her to be too specific in how she manipulated the Trooper. So I just take the moment as a little bit of misplaced fan service and assume that the fact that she gives the Trooper instructions that he happens to repeat as pure coincidence.

 

[morphosis]

Just about everyone I've ever seen this movie with mentions that.

But they let it pass for the most part, and don't freak out like they do about Rey. Back then when TPM came out, i never heard much talk about it. I doubt you will find articles from 1999 or 2000 about it. Today you do because of Rey. They try and discredit Rey far more and a lot of it is sexism, and i think thats very wrong.

crap, now you guys will dig articles out from 1999/2000...

actually if you do, love to read them.

 

[Wor-Gar]

crap, now you guys will dig articles out from 1999/2000...

You know they are looking. They want to discredit you. You cannot save Rey. Only JJ can do that. We can only hope.

A fast fix would be to say that Rey was a boy who had a sex change for his protection. Then of course we'd all be like: Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, it's a boy, that's what he can do all those amazing things. OK.

 

[a-dev]

Morphosis you did make a few good points I must admit, particularly concerning Luke's entire background compared to Rey's.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

ill just say you can hate on the movies all you want. I just don't get how you can enjoy anything when your analyzing things to death like this. if you can't wrap your head around the story by now, i dont know what to tell you other than just try and enjoy something. anything. Ive been on this site for many years and the same people say the same exact things about every movie. you pick apart details so much you loose every sense of enjoyment. Im not saying you have to love every movie made, but your reactions are always the same for everything. Now after all these years your questioning the SW Saga? man, i hate to be that miserable. Its not that difficult to understand. I understood the story when i was like 4. You all seem like you have completely lost what the story is about because your over analyzing it. If you have to question why Rey is perfect and a Mary Sue , man, i kind of feel sorry for you because you just can't enjoy things.

good morning and good luck

I am of the opinion that Abrams simply botched the execution of Rey's mind trick on the Stormtrooper. To hear his explanation on the 3D blu-ray commentary she was naturally strong in the Force and had simply used the momentum of overpowering Kylo's mind trick to do the same to the Trooper. If you can allow for someone to have latent raw power in the Force then his explanation makes perfect sense.

The problem with the scene as is IMO is that she doesn't come across as this raw talent stumbling through the process of overpowering a simple Stormtrooper with the Force because Abrams allows Ridley to deliver her "you will loosen these restraints" line in pretty much the EXACT same cadence as Old Ben on Tatooine when he mind tricked the Troopers about the droids. In doing that Rey becomes disconnected from her surprise victory over Kylo and suddenly seems to behave not as a raw power but as a decades trained Jedi using a very precise and specific skill.

Her scene with the Trooper should have been a natural extension of ONLY her encounter with Kylo, not a reference to veteran Jedi like Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn saying things to people's faces and then making them repeat them back as they comply with instructions. Kylo didn't use the Force that way, and it was a confusing moment for many in the audience, including myself, as to why Rey made that leap. Abrams just took the OT parroting one step too far in that moment.

If Rey heard the Trooper's comlink, closed her eyes, and then said, "Trooper, you are afraid of disobeying your Master. Your master will be angry unless you loosen these restraints..." then we'd go "oh, that's an extension of her 'you are afraid you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader' revelation." But instead our initial thought was, "wait, she resisted Ren and is an expert on techniques perfected by Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn now??" And it was all because Abrams allowed her to be too specific in how she manipulated the Trooper. So I just take the moment as a little bit of misplaced fan service and assume that the fact that she gives the Trooper instructions that he happens to repeat as pure coincidence.

Yeah, I agree. I mentioned in the previous page that IMO the scene came across as a reference to something familiar we've seen before, but in Rey's case it just didn't work because there was no precedent of Rey using any type Jedi technique, unless you count the Kylo Ren scene, but what she was doing was resisting his mind probe attempts. That's different from knowing she can tell a weak mind what to do and that she can control certain people.

 

[morphosis]

I am of the opinion that Abrams simply botched the execution of Rey's mind trick on the Stormtrooper. To hear his explanation on the 3D blu-ray commentary she was naturally strong in the Force and had simply used the momentum of overpowering Kylo's mind trick to do the same to the Trooper. If you can allow for someone to have latent raw power in the Force then his explanation makes perfect sense.

The problem with the scene as is IMO is that she doesn't come across as this raw talent stumbling through the process of overpowering a simple Stormtrooper with the Force because Abrams allows Ridley to deliver her "you will loosen these restraints" line in pretty much the EXACT same cadence as Old Ben on Tatooine when he mind tricked the Troopers about the droids. In doing that Rey becomes disconnected from her surprise victory over Kylo and suddenly seems to behave not as a raw power but as a decades trained Jedi using a very precise and specific skill.

Her scene with the Trooper should have been a natural extension of ONLY her encounter with Kylo, not a reference to veteran Jedi like Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn saying things to people's faces and then making them repeat them back as they comply with instructions. Kylo didn't use the Force that way, and it was a confusing moment for many in the audience, including myself, as to why Rey made that leap. Abrams just took the OT parroting one step too far in that moment.

If Rey heard the Trooper's comlink, closed her eyes, and then said, "Trooper, you are afraid of disobeying your Master. Your master will be angry unless you loosen these restraints..." then we'd go "oh, that's an extension of her 'you are afraid you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader' revelation." But instead our initial thought was, "wait, she resisted Ren and is an expert on techniques perfected by Old Ben and Qui Gon Jinn now??" And it was all because Abrams allowed her to be too specific in how she manipulated the Trooper. So I just take the moment as a little bit of misplaced fan service and assume that the fact that she gives the Trooper instructions that he happens to repeat as pure coincidence.

Yeah I guess i never felt that way. For me once Kylo went into her mind and then she was able to withstand him because he isn't a full fledged Jedi, she realized she could probe into minds too. Her first attempt at JB-007 she failed, then she reset herself and was able to get into his mind. And stormtroopers are weak minded. We just need to wait and see what the rest of her story is to truly understand how strong the Force is with her.

 

[crows]

The Clown Prince of Crime eternally BTFO

 

[Khev]

Yeah I guess i never felt that way. For me once Kylo went into her mind and then she was able to withstand him because he isn't a full fledged Jedi, she realized she could probe into minds too. Her first attempt at JB-007 she failed, then she reset herself and was able to get into his mind. And stormtroopers are weak minded. We just need to wait and see what the rest of her story is to truly understand how strong the Force is with her.

Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with her using her power on the Stormtrooper, I just think the execution of how she did it was too much of an "on the nose" parallel to what Ben did on Tatooine.

 

[Wor-Gar]

You don't need to agree with him.

 

[DiFabio]

So what's the argument here, that just because Rey was a junker she "earned" all of her powers? Get outta here morphosis, that ain't good story telling.

In the movie, Rey doesn't earn anything. She gets all of her skills and powers out of no where and is never in any real danger. She's perfect.

Luke on the other hand doesn't have any say in his life and is super obedient to his Aunt and Uncle, loses R2, gets knocked out by Sandpeople, passes out, gets his **** stolen by Sandpeople, his aunt and uncle are killed, he gets his ass kicked by bar patrons in the cantina, he sucks at lightsabers, he's chided by Han Solo and Princess Leia every step of the way, he creates a half ass rescue plan where they get cornered until the Princess takes over and leads, he's nearly crushed to death in the trash compactor, he shoots the bridge button by accident like an idiot, and he would have been killed by Vader if Han didn't show up last minute. That's just film 1. In deleted scenes, his friends on Tattooine treated him like a baby and called him "worm".




If Rey were in this, she'd be saving Obi-Wan, Han and Leia, would have defeated Vader, blew up the Death Star and wouldn't even need to go visit Yoda. She'd be the only one getting any medals in that movie.

If you take the next films into account for poor Luke, oh boy

He's disfigured and almost killed by the snow creature and blizzard, ****s up in the snowspeeder and gets his wingman killed, loses his X-Wing in swamp, gets lost, doesn't see Yoda for who he really is, sucks at being a Jedi, can't concentrate, can't lift his X-Wing out of the swamp, stops training to go save his friends . . . only to be saved by his friends, and gets beaten by Darth Vader while losing his hand in the process. In Jedi his plan to rescue Han from Jabba backfires, his mind tricks don't work on Jabba and Jabba laughs at him, he's tricked by Jabba and almost eaten by one of his pets, he gets his hand blown off, he gets thrown off his bike and nearly killed by a scout trooper, he gets captured by little stuffed teddy bears, he can't convince his father to join him and he gets fried by the Emperor and would have died if Vader didn't intervene.

Luke goes on a heroes journey and is flawed. Rey is given everything Luke earned in three films, in one movie. She's an expert mechanic, pilot (never even flew the falcon before and knows it better than Han), expert fighter, blaster shooter, fluent in multiple languages including Droid (Luke needed a computer translator for that), and she is a great force user and lightsaber duelist with no training. It's not just that though, it's the smug deamanor that the character gives off that people have a problem with such as when Han tries to help her by offering his gun.


Luke gets by with a little help from his friends. If Obi-Wan didn't help Luke, he would have been murdered and robbed by the Sandpeople. If Obi-Wan didn't help Luke, the cantina thugs would have killed him. If Leia didn't come up with some quick thinking and took over the rescue mission, they would have died in the detention center since Luke and Han winged it. If C-3PO and R2 didn't stop the trash compactor, they'd be killed. If Han Solo and Chewbacca didn't show up, Vader would have gunned Luke down. If Han didn't go out looking for Luke, he'd be dead. In fact, most of Empire everyone is saving Luke.

Rey is never in any real danger, she always overpowers any enemy she faces and is loved by every character she meets. There's never any conflict for her other than "should I stay and fight or go back to being a scanveger".

As far as female Star Wars characters go, Leia and Jyn are better written. Hopefully Rey gets killed off.

 

[crows]

You don't need to agree with him.

 

[morphosis]

Morphosis you did make a few good points I must admit, particularly concerning Luke's entire background compared to Rey's.

Yeah, if your referring to that article, the author misses a lot of the details when you compare Rey & Luke from ANH. Rey was far stronger than Luke . Luke was held back from everything by Owen. But once Luke learned about the Force, things started to happen for him to, just like Rey. And some of the things Luke did just as if not more powerful than Rey did.

I know its not in the film, but if read the book "Before the Awakening" or even the novel TFA you get more detail about her life. Granted i know people will argue, if its not in the movie it didn't happen, but the books are canon. And some of the stuff in the TFA novel was in some of the earlier scripts. But even if you don't read the books, you still get a sense of how strong she is with and without the Force because she spent most of her life by herself and she trained herself in lots of things.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

My favorite part was when Han Solo gave her a gun...even though Finn is supposedly the one who's a "great" shooter Rey took BB-8, took the iconic Lightsaber, Chewie, and the god dammed Falcon in her first film. She even stole Leia's hug from Chewie, who was friends with her dead ex husband. Luke better be careful.

 

[Khev]

Han gave them both guns.

 

[DiFabio]

Luke better be careful.

She already has his lightsaber and friends, that look at the end is probably him thinking that she's there to kill him.

Watch out Luke, you're a ded mon!