Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[jye4ever]

Definately great post by Star Puffs...but honestly the level of narrative nuances you're seeking just on general hux alone, forget the other characters, would require an entire movie to explain.

If i'm seeking a deep examination of morale implications i'll probably go watch Dr. Zhicago before I go watch a Star Wars movie.

You know...there's got to be room left over for pew pew.

Disney still needs kids who wouldn't sit thru Dr. Zhivago to go watch a SW movie.

These movies can't be 100% what adults want.

 

[chewblacca]

I think Luke will explain a lot in episode VIII. He had to. If I were Rey I'd be asking him a billion questions. He's one of few who knows what was really going on and what really happened between ROTJ and now.

 

[jye4ever]

Nah, Rey will have a 32 year vision that will explain it all to her, all she has to do is grab Luke's saber.

 

[Khev]

RO+SW+ESB+ROTJ is still actually an hour shorter than the LOTR trilogy (and more than that if you count the EE's.)

 

[DiFabio]

LOTR Trilogy > Star Wars saga

 

[Khev]

With regard to filmmaking quality yes I agree. But if you take just the Top 3 SW (RO/SW/ESB) vs. LOTR then it becomes very very close (with LOTR still being slightly ahead.)

 

[jye4ever]

RO+SW+ESB+ROTJ is still actually an hour shorter than the LOTR trilogy (and more than that if you count the EE's.)

I'm just happy that Disney respected the audience enough to realize that TFA and RO didn't need Jar Jar stepping on poo jokes for kids to be entertained.

 

[jye4ever]

LOTR Trilogy > Star Wars saga

Absolutely.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

With regard to filmmaking quality yes I agree. But if you take just the Top 3 SW (RO/SW/ESB) vs. LOTR then it becomes very very close (with LOTR still being slightly ahead.)

Absolutely.

And yet, the pop culture impact of LOTR was brief and long forgotten...for the most part. I don't know why? Not enough merchandise perhaps?

 

[Khev]

And yet, the pop culture impact of LOTR was brief and long forgotten...for the most part. I don't know why? Not enough merchandise perhaps?

Even outside of merchandising LOTR just doesn't seem to be a topic of discussion at all anymore anywhere. It bums me out. Those movies should be celebrated forever IMO. There was something so magical about 2001-2003 that each LOTR film provided. I don't want that forgotten dammit.

At least a local theater here plays a marathon of the the trilogy one day in December each year.

 

[jye4ever]

And yet, the pop culture impact of LOTR was brief and long forgotten...for the most part. I don't know why? Not enough merchandise perhaps?

Great and accurate observation.

SW was already established as king of fantasy and pop culture with the general population.

They accept SW as healthy nerds, they're ok if their kids like SW because they liked SW. Seriously, everyone except the Chinese love SW at this point.

LOTR is just icky virgin stuff, no matter how adult it was.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Even outside of merchandising LOTR just doesn't seem to be a topic of discussion at all anymore anywhere. It bums me out. Those movies should be celebrated forever IMO. There was something so magical about 2001-2003 that each LOTR film provided. I don't want that forgotten dammit.

I thought the Hobbit Trilogy was going to revive LOTR as far as pop culture relevance goes, but surprisingly the Hobbit trilogy was almost irrelevant in the sense that it didn't hurt the legacy of the previous trilogy in any way, but it didn't do much to enhance it either. Again, they came, made lots of money, and they went just like LOTR. It's so weird. The themes, the epicenes, the characters, the box office success, and the iconography is all in that franchise, and yet it's like it never happened.

Great and accurate observation.

SW was already established as king of fantasy and pop culture with the general population.

They accept SW as healthy nerds, they're ok if their kids like SW because they liked SW. Seriously, everyone except the Chinese love SW at this point.

LOTR is just icky virgin stuff, no matter how adult it was.

SW had a dark period too from 85-96 but it wasn't as bad as LOTR, imo. I think the merchandise, nostalgia, and re releasing the films in the 90's helped a lot, and then the prequels made SW relevant for a while, and from then on I think either cartoons or toys have kept SW visible on some level until Disney bought it.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, SW is definitely geek chic, something that LOTR never crossed over into. Once vintage SW became cool with chicks it stopped being nerdy and has never looked back.

Same with superheroes, those went from dorky virgin territory to mainstream cool which is also nice. But not straight fantasy like LOTR. I wonder if that will ever change.

 

[DiFabio]

And yet, the pop culture impact of LOTR was brief and long forgotten...for the most part. I don't know why? Not enough merchandise perhaps?

Because Star Wars has never been allowed to die. It kind of did from 85' to the mid 90s, but there was always something bringing it back after that whether it was Special edition rereleases, the Prequels (which spawned all the Star Wars celebration conventions), the Disney buy out, and all the sequels they're pumping out. Star Wars is about quantity over quality. It's artificial, it's merchandising. Just look at the damn toy line. It's been out in stores in constant rotation for 21 years.

LOTR had it's time in the spotlight and was culturally significant, and then it ended. Remember, it was in competition with all the superhero movies, Harry Potter and even Star Wars at that time. Newer generations have ADD. In the 70s/80s there wasn't a saturation of all this stuff. You just had Star Wars really. LOTR's drop is perfectly normal. Someday it'll have a resurgence, but not any time soon.

Also, LOTR isn't as flashy. If people had lightsabers instead of swords, it'd be just as popular and relevant I bet.

 

[pixletwin]

I think also the LotR fanbase is more into the books than the film. More into the books than the merchandising. If we think about the old saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted"; there are less fools in the Tolkien fanbase.

 

[Khev]

I think also the LotR fanbase is more into the books than the film. More into the books than the merchandising. If we think about the old saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted"; there are less fools in the Tolkien fanbase.

True. And Harry Potter had the luxury of people lining up for book AND movie premieres every other year whereas LOTR was already very "old" for many people being introduced to the films. That might have led to fans feeling less ownership in the story.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Because Star Wars has never been allowed to die. It kind of did from 85' to the mid 90s, but there was always something bringing it back after that whether it was Special addition rereleases, the Prequels (which spawned all the Star Wars celebration conventions), the Disney buy out, and all the sequels they're pumping out. Star Wars is about quantity over quality. It's artificial, it's merchandising. Just look at the damn toy line. It's been out in stores in constant rotation for 21 years.

LOTR had it's time in the spotlight and was culturally significant, and then it ended. Perfectly normal. Someday it'll have a resurgence, but not any time soon.

I don't know who owns LOTR, but they could keep it relevant. Hell, make new stories even if they're not "canon." Cartoons or something. The whole cast is still alive and young enough to make more films. Video games, look at all those LOTR rip-off RPG/open world games, and they can't make a great series of LOTR games? They're letting it die. Lucas was smart enough to find ways to keep SW alive. Even Star Trek which is even geekier (as far as people's perception of fans is concerned) than LOTR finds ways to stay relevant and keep some level of quality that makes the core fans happy.

 

[pixletwin]

I don't know who owns LOTR, but they could keep it relevant. Hell, make new stories even if they're not "canon." Cartoons or something. The whole cast is still alive and young enough to make more films. Video games, look at all those LOTR rip-off RPG/open world games, and they can't make a great series of LOTR games? They're letting it die. Lucas was smart enough to find ways to keep SW alive. Even Star Trek which is even geekier (as far as people's perception of fans is concerned) than LOTR finds ways to stay relevant and keep some level of quality that makes the core fans happy.

I can't think of anything that would piss Tolkien fans off more than what you suggest. Perhaps keeping something relevant isn't always in it's best interest?

 

[Khev]

I can't think of anything that would piss Tolkien fans off more than what you suggest.

Right up there with jye's idea of having Pixar remake the OT.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I think also the LotR fanbase is more into the books than the film. More into the books than the merchandising. If we think about the old saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted"; there are less fools in the Tolkien fanbase.

I can't think of anything that would piss Tolkien fans off more than what you suggest. Perhaps keeping something relevant isn't always in it's best interest?

Well, if that's the case, in a way those fans are the franchise/brand's worst enemy. And if the person who owns the brand thinks the same way, then they're not seeing the big picture. Would Tolkien fans be against a theme park ride or "land" in some theme park too? That in no way adds anything new to their precious canon.