Great stuff yet again from Bravomite and Khev.
A few points I'd like to address, if I may:
You raise a good point about the republic fleet... But if it was scattered about the Galaxy (and not foolishly all clustered around Hosnian Prime) then you would have thought that others would have rallied to Leia after the events of TFA. Or at the least would have moved in to challenge the very real and unavoidable threat that the first order had revealed themselves to be. I mean they just blew up the galactic government and five planets, I can't imagine any republic officers (or citizens) wanting to remain neutral after that.
We'll have to see if there's any help coming from the remaining fleet in Episode IX. Remember that TLJ takes place immediately after TFA. The remaining Republic forces would only just be learning about the destruction of the Hosnian system. Then the chain of command would have to get squared away before organization of a strike against the FO can be mobilized. They might still be coming . . . with General Lando, maybe?
Another possibility is that the remaining Republic fleet falls into the command of someone who is secretly working with the First Order. We just don't know anything about potential remnants (if any do exist) of the Republic fleet yet because TFA and TLJ happened within the same short time frame.
I would imagine that finding this out about your kid would cause tension between any parents. I could also see Han feeling out of his depth and fairly helpless as unlike his wife and brother in law he is not a force user and this is fundamentally a light side dark side of the force issue. Despite Han's bravado he has always had a big heart and I could believe that part of his problem was that he would not be able bring himself to raise arms against his son despite everything he had done. Han not knowing what to do led him to returning to the only thing that made sense to him ... life as a smuggler before he got caught up in the battles of Jedi and Sith.
Han wouldn't need to raise arms against his son, or even confront him. But at the very least, he should've understood that Leia was dealing with the same exact tragedy and yet remained loyal to the righteous cause of protecting the galaxy and the peace that the Rebellion had fought so hard for. Han left her to deal with both difficulties while he obscured (or hid from) his own with the smuggler's life he'd known before his character evolved. How is that heroic?
Han appeals to Ben because Leia asks him to and because he hopes it might make a difference. However, my impression from his facial expressions before stepping out onto the bridge, is that he thinks it is too late. With that in mind, it makes it even more powerful that he still takes that step knowing that he is almost certainly going to his death. Han goes willingly out of love for his wife and the chance, no matter how small, to save his son. As a father this resonates very strongly with me as given the same or similar circumstances I'd like to think I would act the same way.
Very eloquently stated, and all very true. But the redemptive final moments don't erase the character regression that would've been playing out for likely a couple of years (or more) before TFA. Hauling rathtars instead of helping Leia. Cheating death gangs instead of trying to find Luke. Chasing down the Falcon instead of using his skills to help his wife try to keep everything they fought for from being erased. These are inescapable realities of what Han dedicated himself to for a long time, and where he put his priorities.
Confronting Kylo on that catwalk was fantastic, but it doesn't change the fact that he had turned away from that type of courageous and heroic display when others who also mattered to him would have benefited from his courage. Or a least his presence. But he wasn't there . . . because he went back to smuggling.
Only the movie counts.
And yet the movie makes little to no sense if the Resistance is operating with the support and backing of a massive Republic. I thought I made that pretty clear with several examples as to why. I'll touch upon those again anyway because you also wrote:
(And I've already spelled out why I find the movie to be internally consistent on the matter with my Raddus/Alliance RO reference compared to Leia and the Republic which you summarily ignored so I won't go in circles on that any further and just say "we obviously disagree."
)
I didn't "summarily ignore" your point; I simply can't take the time to hit every single note. And you preemptively dismissed any rationalization that I'd offer in pointing out how Raddus and Leia are not equivalent. Raddus was working as
part of, and
with, the Alliance - but made a judgment call (kinda like Poe did) to ignore and circumvent his superiors. Leia
wasn't working with the Republic at all; she was resorting to pleading with them to see things her way. In the meantime, she'd be pressing forward without them; merely hoping that the Senate would come around to her point of view. Leia wasn't a general in the Republic; she was a general of the Resistance. She led an independent force with an independent agenda.
However, are you summarily ignoring my questions of 1.) why Leia needed to form the Resistance in the first place if she was backed by the Republic/Senate? and 2.) Why was she and her entire Resistance pinning their hopes so much on finding Luke if she had a Republic fleet to back her efforts?
Again, bingo! In ANH Han bails on everyone at the end but then comes back to help save the day. In ESB Han bails on Leia in Echo Base but then comes back for her. In ROTJ he bails on her on Endor when he gets sick of her whining about not being able to tell him what's wrong (okay that bailout lasted only three seconds but it was still a pretty big diss when she was being extremely vulnerable, lol) and then prior to TFA he experienced emotional trauma that absolutely blew away any of those moments in the OT that prompted him to leave at those prior times. The Death Star, the bounty hunter on Ord Mantell, Leia's sad face, none of those were remotely comparable to what he endured with the loss of his son.
But like all the other times, he came back. Because he's Han. And always does the right thing in the end.
You do realize that Han had to run into Rey, and then be convinced by Maz, before doing the noble thing, right? It's not like Han decided to get back in the fight on his own, and without prompting. Every time Han turned to leave in the OT, he came back just about immediately (on his own) because people needed his help. He also exposed himself to brutal conditions on Hoth to keep Luke alive. He pleaded to Chewie to protect Leia as he was about to be frozen in Carbonite. Selfless and brave! Every. F'ing. Time. Then TFA tells us that he stayed away for years until finding Rey. Only then did he decide to go ahead and be heroic again. And that's supposed to jibe!?
You say that Leia's sad face was enough to turn Han back in the OT, but that his son turning dark was too tragic for him to take. I bet you that Leia's face was still pretty sad over what happened to their son. Han still turned away from it for years, not minutes. And this view that Han would feel so much more helpless than any point in his life with what happened to his son? . . . We're still talking about the guy who defiantly said,
"Never tell me the odds!" right? The same guy who said,
"Then, I'll see you in hell!" when told he wouldn't survive if he went out looking for Luke in the snow? The guy who was partially defined by being willing to confront the impossible, and still come out on top? That's the same Han who would feel helpless and lost enough to abandon Leia (who he would sacrifice so much for in the OT) while she fights two battles (one personal; one heroic in duty)? Really?
I know I've banged on about this before, but Solo's incessant need to explain every little thing about Han (including his cynicism) has further contributed to his seesawing character development over the saga.
Solo: Nice guy who gets wronged
OT: Scoundrel who redeems himself
TFA: Back to being a scoundrel, but redeems himself again
I'm inclined to agree. Han's characterization has been getting the yo-yo treatment. At least somewhat.
