Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[fosing]

Disney Kennedy don't like Jesus

rey is jesus's sister.

Disney star wars= the power of I M A G I N A T I O N...Khev uses it a lot

must be the chlorine in the water.

 

[YoNoSe]

And to think, he could have just been there in person, an even more heroic act.

Millennials are so dramatic about leaving the house.

 

[Adolfo]

rey is jesus's good sister. According to Disney Kennedy Jesus was the bad brother/son




must be the chlorine in the water.

Corrected for accuracy

 

[YoNoSe]

Arriving as force projection also would have helped no one as he DIDN'T TELL ANYONE about his "stall for time" plan - including Leia.



Ben using force projection in ANH:

Right from his hut, Ben could have instantly contacted and had a discussion with Leia's father on Alderaan (or had him tell Ben to project himself to Yavin base,) told him that Leia's ship had been attacked, and that he's in possession of a droid containing death star plans (after R2 had shown Ben what he's carrying) so they could immediately send Rebel spies to view/retrieve them. Or Ben could create a "force-viewing link" between Leia's father (or others) and his hut so others could view the death star plans in the same way Rey views Kylo's guns (or simply use the type of "livestream" video-conference to Maz seen in TLJ.)

Yoda using force projection in ESB (backed by Ben as Force-ghost with physical world powers):

The Bespin battle would have gone differently if Yoda had shown up as a force projection, with Ben having Yoda's back with force-ghost powers, to help the unprepared and in-danger "last hope" Luke who is perhaps going to his death. Yoda and Ben being there would have rescued everyone including Han and together Yoda, Ben and Luke could have probably killed Vader if they chose.



Nice ideas!

If they had done even a couple of those things, the last third of the movie would have been way more satisfying.

Ben dies about ten minutes into projecting himself to Alderaan leaving the plans completely unprotected to maybe have a conversation. Check.

Ghost Ben can’t intervene. I know there’s an argument that calling lightning to a tree contradicts this but we didn’t see any force ghosts fighting anyone. So communing with nature to burn an empty tree doesn’t confirm anything to me.

Also Yoda probably dies within 5 minutes of force projection. Accomplishing probably zilch.

 

[Adolfo]

Ben dies about ten minutes into projecting himself to Alderaan leaving the plans completely unprotected to maybe have a conversation. Check.

Ghost Ben can’t intervene. I know there’s an argument that calling lightning to a tree contradicts this but we didn’t see any force ghosts fighting anyone. So communing with nature to burn an empty tree doesn’t confirm anything to me.

Also Yoda probably dies within 5 minutes of force projection. Accomplishing probably zilch.

Behold! The power of Disney Star Wars I M A G I N A T I O N. ...Jedi mind trick for real lol

 

[YoNoSe]

Behold! The power of Disney Star Wars I M A G I N A T I O N. ...Jedi mind trick for real lol

It’s certainly activated you.

 

[Lakhota]

Rian Johnson is an arrogant prick, he thinks he's funny on twitter with his asinine ******** comments like " Leia is a bad @ss Motha ****er" that's how she floated like an ******* in space. This guy didnt even see the final cut of TFA before turning in his script and this movie feels like Episode 7.5 not eight. We got two movies in the span of a week or so that's some stupid ass writing, seriously this dude single handedly **** on the new sequels and he thinks hes cute.

 

[DiFabio]

I can't believe "force projection" is actually a thing now. It's just so ridiculous. It boggles my mind that Star Wars fans actually defend it. I guess I could kind of see if Luke had a heart attack while doing it or something, but he clearly composes himself and meditates before completely disappearing. I mean WTF did he do that made him exert so much "foce juice" or whatever you guys are conjuring up as an excuse for his demise? He didn't even swing his ****ing "lightsaber". Hell, for all we know, he could have shut it off while all those AT-ATs were blasting his projection. He didn't need to be seen in all that red dust. His "sacrifice" isn't even emotional, the rebels would have just went into the back of that hanger where Rey would meet them without him anyway. It's just bizarre and executed in such a strange way.

"B-b-but RIAN, er, I mean Kylo set it up that if you did it could kill you!!"

Who cares? That doesn't make it better. Just because you set it up doesn't make it a great concept. Everything about it is just so contrived. Luke just waltzing in looking all strange with that hair and beard. The return of the blue lightsaber. The Matrix dodges. The dusting of his shoulder. Poe just knowing what Luke's plan is. The fact that Luke dies sitting there doing nothing. It's just stupid. I don't understand why people feel the need to defend it ad nauseam. It really played out like some weird fan fiction or one of those old Expanded Universe stories. Funny thing is, the people that defend this hologram Luke garbage would probably be ripping the hell out of the idea if was a thing in an unofficial book or something. I just can't fathom how a fan of Star Wars or Luke Skywalker would find this to be a compelling end for such a beloved character. Or maybe they never liked either thing to begin with? Certainly seems like it. I mean, some of these people defending this are the same ones that bitched for years and years about how bad Yoda doing silly flips was or R2 flying around with jetpacks on his legs. I just don't understand it, how can you hate on one ridiculous thing but be completely fine with the other that is, somehow, even more ridiculous.

 

[Adolfo]

Star wars is the blue light zapper or dogs**t that attracts the flies...they just eat it up...the words "star wars" will be the new "Rosebud" lol

 

[Adolfo]

It’s certainly activated you.

Good has to win over stupidity boy....activated me yes...but not once assimilated,caffeinated,castrated like so many here....gonna order Chinese tonight for them saying F U to Disney Kennedy Star Wars

 

[TonTon]

His "sacrifice" isn't even emotional, the rebels would have just went into the back of that hanger where Rey would meet them without him anyway. It's just bizarre and executed in such a strange way.

"B-b-but RIAN, er, I mean Kylo set it up that if you did it could kill you!!"

Who cares? That doesn't make it better. Just because you set it up doesn't make it a great concept. Everything about it is just so contrived. Luke just waltzing in looking all strange with that hair and beard. The return of the blue lightsaber. The Matrix dodges. The dusting of his shoulder. Poe just knowing what Luke's plan is. The fact that Luke dies sitting there doing nothing. It's just stupid. I don't understand why people feel the need to defend it ad nauseam. It really played out like some weird fan fiction or one of those old Expanded Universe stories. Funny thing is, the people that defend this hologram Luke garbage would probably be ripping the hell out of the idea if was a thing in an unofficial book or something. I just can't fathom how a fan of Star Wars or Luke Skywalker would find this to be a compelling end for such a beloved character. Or maybe they never liked either thing to begin with? Certainly seems like it.

This is the problem I had. I’m pretty sure when it happened I just said, “What the ****?” Both from a story point, and as the set up to 9 with Fisher passing.

I still find the Obi-Wan death to carry some emotion in ANH. Obviously ghost Jedi hadn’t been invented yet, but it’s not like Rey knows about that stuff.

The moment when Luke disappears has no emotional weight and then even the characters are all, “Did you feel it? He’s gone.”

 

[Khev]

Millennials are so dramatic about leaving the house.

 

[Khev]

Rian Johnson is an arrogant prick, he thinks he's funny on twitter with his asinine ******** comments like " Leia is a bad @ss Motha ****er" that's how she floated like an ******* in space. This guy didnt even see the final cut of TFA before turning in his script and this movie feels like Episode 7.5 not eight. We got two movies in the span of a week or so that's some stupid ass writing, seriously this dude single handedly **** on the new sequels and he thinks hes cute.

Yes, a sequel that picks up the story within a few days of the previous film is definitely a sign of terrible writing.

 

[Spazz]

I can't believe "force projection" is actually a thing now. It's just so ridiculous. It boggles my mind that Star Wars fans actually defend it. I guess I could kind of see if Luke had a heart attack while doing it or something, but he clearly composes himself and meditates before completely disappearing. I mean WTF did he do that made him exert so much "foce juice" or whatever you guys are conjuring up as an excuse for his demise? He didn't even swing his ****ing "lightsaber". Hell, for all we know, he could have shut it off while all those AT-ATs were blasting his projection. He didn't need to be seen in all that red dust. His "sacrifice" isn't even emotional, the rebels would have just went into the back of that hanger where Rey would meet them without him anyway. It's just bizarre and executed in such a strange way.

"B-b-but RIAN, er, I mean Kylo set it up that if you did it could kill you!!"

Who cares? That doesn't make it better. Just because you set it up doesn't make it a great concept. Everything about it is just so contrived. Luke just waltzing in looking all strange with that hair and beard. The return of the blue lightsaber. The Matrix dodges. The dusting of his shoulder. Poe just knowing what Luke's plan is. The fact that Luke dies sitting there doing nothing. It's just stupid. I don't understand why people feel the need to defend it ad nauseam. It really played out like some weird fan fiction or one of those old Expanded Universe stories. Funny thing is, the people that defend this hologram Luke garbage would probably be ripping the hell out of the idea if was a thing in an unofficial book or something. I just can't fathom how a fan of Star Wars or Luke Skywalker would find this to be a compelling end for such a beloved character. Or maybe they never liked either thing to begin with? Certainly seems like it. I mean, some of these people defending this are the same ones that bitched for years and years about how bad Yoda doing silly flips was or R2 flying around with jetpacks on his legs. I just don't understand it, how can you hate on one ridiculous thing but be completely fine with the other that is, somehow, even more ridiculous.

But wait! What if Luke's not dead? What if there's also such a thing as Force Teleportation, but it works like time travel in Terminator: You can't take your clothing with you! Maybe a naked Luke Skywalker will reappear in Ep. 9, streaking through the corridors of a rebel base.

 

[DarthBakura]

Complaining about the natural progression of force powers in the films is senseless. What... do you really expect them to keep the wealth of interesting abilities locked away in books and other smaller media forever?

Come on now. We had that song and dance with the prequels. They contributed almost nothing substantial, except for a few flashy dance battles. In fact, I can only recall Yoda’s Force Deflection and the Force Speed maneuver from Phantom Menace.

The Force is constantly evolving in the medium. Instead of Vader merely deflecting blaster fire with a flick of his wrist, you have Kylo Ren who can suspend both the bolt and the combatant in place for however long he requires. Snoke tossed around Rey like a giant playing with a rag doll. He didn’t resort to merely flinging some intense lightning at his prey.

Now, I will say... being blown out of the bridge and surviving in space well past what a physical human body is capable of? Yeah, that’s a little harder to swallow. The Force pull maneuver itself isn’t even the issue for me.

 

[Spazz]

Complaining about the natural progression of force powers in the films is senseless. What... do you really expect them to keep the wealth of interesting abilities locked away in books and other smaller media forever?

Come on now. We had that song and dance with the prequels. They contributed almost nothing substantial, except for a few flashy dance battles. In fact, I can only recall Yoda’s Force Deflection and the Force Speed maneuver from Phantom Menace.

The Force is constantly evolving in the medium. Instead of Vader merely deflecting blaster fire with a flick of his wrist, you have Kylo Ren who can suspend both the bolt and the combatant in place for however long he requires. Snoke tossed around Rey like a giant playing with a rag doll. He didn’t resort to merely flinging some intense lightning at his prey.

Now, I will say... being blown out of the bridge and surviving in space well past what a physical human body is capable of? Yeah, that’s a little harder to swallow. The Force pull maneuver itself isn’t even the issue for me.

Whatever floats your boat. The film failed in attempting to accomplish mass appeal, partly because it broke the rules of its own universe. Johnson and Kennedy can do as they please, but as a hypothetical imperative, if your intention is to maintain or grow a demographic by wielding nostalgia, you have to account for such changes instead of just throwing them at the audience. Is the force itself changing? Were people naive in not realizing they could access it? Did Jedi have these powers all along, and we just haven't seen it yet? When you don't account for these kinds of changes, it frustrates a significant portion of the audience. Again, if the goal is mass appeal, that means failure.

 

[Khev]

Complaining about the natural progression of force powers in the films is senseless. What... do you really expect them to keep the wealth of interesting abilities locked away in books and other smaller media forever?

Of course! I mean in ESB when Yoda said "for my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is" he clearly meant that it was awesome to have an ally that could do nothing but control weak minds and lift stuff. Those two powers alone are definitely worthy of spawning a religion that lasted over a thousand generations.

 

[DiFabio]

I still find the Obi-Wan death to carry some emotion in ANH.

Exactly.

It also helps that the scene with Obi-Wan in the hangar bay feels a lot more intimate with it's smaller scale. Other than the lightsaber's clashing in the distance, it's really a quiet scene. It's just Vader and Obi-Wan sparring, the Stormtroopers watching while the heroes use their distraction to get aboard the Falcon. Obi-Wan's glance to Luke, the smile, closing his eyes, etc. it's a magical scene.

With TLJ, it's like their first draft went like this.

WE GOT TO GO EPIC BRO, BIG. LETS THROW THE VISUALS BACK TO THE BEST SW MOVIE, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. WE ON A SNOW PLANET ER, SALT PLANET NOW. THIS IS LUKES BIG EXIT, HE'S GOIN' OUT WITH STYLE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THREE AT-ATS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A DOZEN. THE EMPIRE 2.0 GOT THE REBELS 2.0 CORNERED. THEY'RE TOAST. THE AUDIENCE IS NOT GONNA EXPECT LUKE WALKING OUT OF THE SHADOWS AS THE REBELS LOOK IN AWE. THEY GONNA TEAR UP WHEN HE WALKS UP TO CARRIE AND GIVE HER A SMOOTCH ON HER FOREHEAD. LOOK AT ALL THE CARTOONISH BAD GUYS LOOKING SHOCKED THAT LUKE IS BACK. **** YEAH. LUKE IS GOING TO WALK OUT THERE AND FACE OFF ALL THOSE AT-ATS, JUST LIKE THE FANS DREAMED! SUDDENLY, THE FO FOCUSES ALL THEIR FIRE POWER ON LUKE, HE'S DOOMED. WHATS THIS? HE SURVIVED!?! **** YEAH MAN, TOTALLY EPIC. LETS HAVE HIM DUST HIS SHOULDER OFF TO REALLY GET KYLO WORKED UP, THE AUDIENCE WILL BE LITTY AND HOWLING. OH ****, LOOK, LUKE HAS HIS CLASSIC BLUE LIGHTSABER. WE GONNA HAVE OURSELVES DUEL. LOOK AT KYLO'S BIG EPIC SWING AND HOW LUKE DODGES IT. WE NEED LUKE TO QUIP TO REALLY RUB KYLOS LOSS IN HIS FACE. YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE WE NEED, A TWIST. LUKE IS A HOLOGRAM BRO, WE WERE JUST KIDDING. YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN YOUR FACE. CLASSIC. GUESS WHAT, LUKE IS BACK ON THE ISLAND. HE WAS JUST PRETENDING TO BE THERE. HE STILL DIED THO, LOL. LUKE DIED SO THE REBELS COULD LIVE. JUST LIKE OBI-WAN. IT'S POETRY.

The moment when Luke disappears has no emotional weight and then even the characters are all, “Did you feel it? He’s gone.”

Especially when The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi built him up as this objective where the heroes desperately need to find him. Rey didn't even need to go visit him. If she had just stayed, she could have done that escape pod trick to Snoke's throne room and purple haired lady would still do her thing with the hyperspace kamikaze. Luke didn't even need to be in the new trilogy, he was worthless.

 

[Spazz]

Of course! I mean in ESB when Yoda said "for my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is" he clearly meant that it was awesome to have an ally that could do nothing but control weak minds and lift stuff. Those two powers alone are definitely worthy of spawning a religion that lasted over a thousand generations.

Maybe you're right. In Episode 9, maybe we'll learn that the force can also allow people to travel through time, create matter from thin air, breath fire, break dance, or turn into Wookies. We'll learn that Chewy was once a Jedi who turned into a Wookie. There are no limits to how awesome everyone can be, no need for explanation, and if these changes are perceived as moronic to over half the viewing public, Disney shareholders won't perceive that as failure, and neither should we. After all, why wouldn't people who watch a movie for nostalgia embrace incoherent change and a frivolous portrayal of IP?

 

[Khev]

Maybe you're right. In Episode 9, maybe we'll learn that the force can also allow people to travel through time, create matter from thin air, breath fire, break dance, or turn into Wookies. We'll learn that Chewy was once a Jedi who turned into a Wookie. There are no limits to how awesome everyone can be, no need for explanation, and if these changes are perceived as moronic to over half the viewing public, Disney shareholders won't perceive that as failure, and neither should we. After all, why wouldn't people who watch a movie for nostalgia embrace incoherent change and a frivolous portrayal of IP?

Leia in space was a head scratcher. Nothing else in TLJ was. The "new" powers were all extensions of what we saw in ESB. Vader in the Dagobah cave was a Force projection (that was tangible no less!) Luke Force linked with both Leia and Vader. ESB also established that certain powers beyond a Jedi's abilities could take a physical toll on the Force user (Luke was weak and out of breath after trying to lift the X-Wing, Yoda was not.) Ranting about break dancing and firebreathing just makes you look silly