Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[punisher1974]

Exactly.. I did not care for TFA but was willing to say that it could be made a better movie if the big picture helped flesh out the characters and answered some questions.. It did not... At first I was willing to ignore that Rey's powers were not explained and, to a lesser extent, that Snoke's background was ignored... But with some time I began to find it very annoying and a huge cheat or just laziness..

I also have a feeling that we will never know how Maz got Luke's saber.. Its destroyed now so that "interesting story for another time" will be ignored also..

These films just seem to fly by the seat of their pants.. I am starting to think that its all improvised

Maybe Maz was banging an Ugnaught at the time and stole it from him after the sword was recovered on Cloud City.

 

[Khev]

You clearly missed the subtext of the duel in ESB. Luke was unprepared to face Vader, who was toying with him the entire time and could have kicked his butt at any moment. It was only after Luke got overconfident and got a couple of lucky swings in that Vader decided to end it.

Oh I did, did I? My point was that the same arguments made against TFA/TLJ can be leveled against the OT. *I* didn't miss the subtext in *either* trilogy but it appears that some of you will only allow for "selective subtext." In other words: Anything not spelled out in the OT: Subtext. Anything not spelled out in the Sequel Trilogy: Plot hole.

By the time of the second duel, Luke had clearly spent the years between ESB and ROTJ training, and had become more adept. But even then he wasn't amazing. He was just kind of all the Jedi had left at that point.

Actually it wasn't years between ESB and ROTJ, only a few months. But then again these films have never spelled everything out on screen have they?

 

[morphosis]

You clearly missed the subtext of the duel in ESB. Luke was unprepared to face Vader, who was toying with him the entire time and could have kicked his butt at any moment. It was only after Luke got overconfident and got a couple of lucky swings in that Vader decided to end it.

By the time of the second duel, Luke had clearly spent the years between ESB and ROTJ training, and had become more adept. But even then he wasn't amazing. He was just kind of all the Jedi had left at that point.

Just pointing out it was less than year between Empire and RoTJ.

 

[DarkChocobi]

I'm convinced the Rebels are pro-ISIS

Rebels scum!

 

[Niltusk]

I'll keep my opinions of the movie aside but I can't believe how good Snoke looked!! Amazing...so real. Loved the eyes. BUT!!! When Yoda appeared he looked very cheesy, low budget with a puffy soft face? He did not look OT or PT. Also wonder if there was reshoots as Rey's face started to look a hint fatter!! Maybe she had to much green milk back on the island!

Practical effects! One of the things that I really liked about this flick. Thats why so many casino peeps looked low budget. May not compete with all the cgi in this day and age, but he was cast from the original old Yoda puppet from Empire.

 

[rushmore223]

Yoda did look awful though, shows how amazing the ESB was, they still can't match it.

 

[noisetrigger]

You clearly missed the subtext of the duel in ESB. Luke was unprepared to face Vader, who was toying with him the entire time and could have kicked his butt at any moment. It was only after Luke got overconfident and got a couple of lucky swings in that Vader decided to end it.

By the time of the second duel, Luke had clearly spent the years between ESB and ROTJ training, and had become more adept. But even then he wasn't amazing. He was just kind of all the Jedi had left at that point.

It seems you missed the fact that Rey wasn't even very good with the lightsaber in the first place and one could argue she has better fighting skills than Luke because she has to survive alone in the harsh environment on Jakku. It was already established in TFA that she can take care of herself and quite handy with the staff. The lightsaber is not some magical weapon that only a Jedi with extreme training can used. It was established in Rebels that even Sabine could learn how to pick it up fairly quickly because of her training as a Mando.

Watch the throne room fight again. It was Kylo doing most of the work. If I remember correctly, she took out like three guards and barely made it out.

Kylo took out the other five and did the brunt of the work.

And before you bring up how Rey bested Kylo in TFA the same logic in ESB applies. He wasn't trying to kill Rey. He took out Finn easily and he could have done so with Rey. He just didn't want to kill her. He was trying to turn her.

 

[Khev]

A conclusion I reached after about a week of this movie premier is that majority of the negativity surrounding this movie basically boils down to the fact that the movie did not match any of the fanfiction they have been building in their head.

Yep, I can sometimes bristle at sequels not matching my own fan-fiction but I pretty much always come around as long as they are well told (Alien 3 being a rare example.) AOTC was *not* well told. Even if you ignore the way it truly crapped on the backstory of OT characters there's just no getting around the fact that half the movie focuses on a love story between two characters with ZERO charisma or chemistry with one another. They have terrible dialogue (that was instantly quoted and repeated ad infinitum on account of how awful it was) delivered by wooden performances at best, outright embarrassing at worst. These are movie breaking sins in any genre and have nothing to do with fanboy bias. The same cannot be remotely said for TFA and TLJ.

 

[Khev]

And before you bring up how Rey bested Kylo in TFA the same logic in ESB applies. He wasn't trying to kill Rey. He took out Finn easily and he could have done so with Rey. He just didn't want to kill her. He was trying to turn her.

Plus he was heavily wounded and outright shocked that a nobody like Rey was giving him such trouble. So he was wounded, flustered, and probably more than a little rattled with the guilt of offing his dad. In short Kylo was a hot mess during the moment that Rey gave it her all against him. Oh yeah, and like you said Snoke had literally instructed him to "bring her to me" so he wasn't even fighting to win.

 

[clutch]

A good read:

https://hype.my/2017/149941/star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

 

[SNIKT1950]

no matter what they put out, you'll never be happy.

Nonsense. I loved TFA. Loved it. Watched it 5 times in 15/70 ($22 per ticket) IMAX. Bought it on Blu-ray twice.

I think many of you should just give up on Star Wars

After this garbage movie its hard not to.

 

[a-dev]

Yes, we can have fun with TLJ and IX because after TFA the Sequel Trilogy became instantly irrelevant to the OT.

Being irrelevant is one thing, but being a badly made parody is quite another.

Surely that would only make it easier to compartmentalize and take these 'sequels' as their own entirely separate thing.

 

[rushmore223]

I wish Hux was killed in this movie, he's really annoying and over acted.

Should have replaced him with the Dreadnaught captain.

 

[klwn]

I was totally fine with TFA, it was a 7.5/10 for me. Saw it three times in theater.
I didn't expect something mind-blowing from a movie that needed to set everything up. I did expect that from the sequel though.
TFA set things up really well, Rian Johnson just completely ignored the opportunities JJ gave him.

 

[rushmore223]

Nonsense. I loved TFA. Loved it. Watched it 5 times in 15/70 ($22 per ticket) IMAX. Bought it on Blu-ray twice.



After this garbage movie its hard not to.

Buying a Blu ray twice on this forum is nothing unusual. I own TFA in regular Blu and 3D as well.

Somebody should let you film your fanfic, might make AOTC look incredible by comparison.

 

[klwn]

I wish Hux was killed in this movie, he's really annoying and over acted.

Should have replaced him with the Dreadnaught captain.

Nah, Rian Johnson would rather kill characters with huge potential, like Luke and Snoke.

But no worries, Rose is still alive so we are good. Rose is the best.

 

[Asta]

Surely that would only make it easier to compartmentalize and take these 'sequels' as their own entirely separate thing.

It does.

TFA wasn't a bad film. But I don't regard it as canon. The ST is a 'what if...?' series, and as such is of no consequence.

But TLJ was barely watchable even under those conditions.

 

[Bravomite]

Yep, I can sometimes bristle at sequels not matching my own fan-fiction but I pretty much always come around as long as they are well told (Alien 3 being a rare example.) AOTC was *not* well told. Even if you ignore the way it truly crapped on the backstory of OT characters there's just no getting around the fact that half the movie focuses on a love story between two characters with ZERO charisma or chemistry with one another. They have terrible dialogue (that was instantly quoted and repeated ad infinitum on account of how awful it was) delivered by wooden performances at best, outright embarrassing at worst. These are movie breaking sins in any genre and have nothing to do with fanboy bias. The same cannot be remotely said for TFA and TLJ.

From my point of view TLJ did alien3 Luke. And Rose and Finn ... That romance was one for the ages, soo much chemistry

 

[a-dev]

Nah, Rian Johnson would rather kill characters with huge potential, like Luke and Snoke.

But no worries, Rose is still alive so we are good. Rose is the best.

How the hell did she and Finn even survive that? That was a bit of a wtf moment for me - high-speed vehicular collisions usually kill people, not save them.

 

[ShadowX81]

Oh I did, did I? My point was that the same arguments made against TFA/TLJ can be leveled against the OT. *I* didn't miss the subtext in *either* trilogy but it appears that some of you will only allow for "selective subtext." In other words: Anything not spelled out in the OT: Subtext. Anything not spelled out in the Sequel Trilogy: Plot hole.

Bizarre and never once hinted at theories about "light side voids" creating fully trained Jedi from scratch aren't subtext. Neither is the complete lack of basics that has been laid out concerning the first order and resistance.

Actually it wasn't years between ESB and ROTJ, only a few months. But then again these films have never spelled everything out on screen have they?

Months is still better than absolutely zero training.

And before you bring up how Rey bested Kylo in TFA the same logic in ESB applies. He wasn't trying to kill Rey. He took out Finn easily and he could have done so with Rey. He just didn't want to kill her. He was trying to turn her.

Then how did she beat him. Sorry, but "giving it your all" doesn't matter if your opponent is better than you and has more experience.