SW Original and SE shot by shot comparison

[Khev]

Time and time again the explanation in the 1983 ROTJ novelization is mentioned, but nobody listens.

Anakin *wanted* Luke to see him as he used to be. If you don't like that explanation then just assume that the spirits appear as "residual self images." The last time Anakin saw his own unscarred face it was back during ROTS. He wouldn't have even known what he was supposed to look like as a 50 year old. He appeared as he remembered himself.

Either explanation works perfectly fine for me.

 

[JustinLuck]

That is very true Robodad. Hayden doesn't look very much like a father figure to Mark Hamill.

 

[The Josh]

But there are two reasons why your emotional response doesn't work for me.

Well, that makes sense it's his emotional response and not yours. Sorry had to be a smart ass for a second.

First let's take the "when I think of Anakin, I think of Hayden" reasoning. What you say may be true, but what of Obi-Wan? Which actor springs more to your mind when you think of that character, Ewan McGregor or Sir Alec Guiness? Why shouldn't the young, energetic Obi-Wan be featured in the final scene. After all, that was the part of his life that he loved, not spending twenty-odd years stuck on a desert rock keeping watch over Vader's offspring.

Well, with Obi-Wan it really depends on what stage I'm thinking of the character. As far as why it should be the older version well to me that's because of where he was at when he died. Obi-Wan was always a good guy and his life ended at that stage. Anakins ended when he was still young and looked like Hayden.

And second, there is the "it lets your last image of Hayden be of him as a Jedi" thought. I really have BIG problem with this one. When ROTJ was first released, it was abundantly clear to me that the ghosts were appearing for Luke's benefit, not ours. We were supposed to, on that emotional level, be able to empathize with Luke, seeing his father and mentors (all of the people who brought him to where he is now, a Jedi Knight), as he knew them. How in the world was he supposed to recognize Hayden as his father, having never seen him before? After the change, the whole point of the scene changes, and it no longer feels like it is for Luke, but now it is for the audience, which takes me right out of the scene, on an emotional level.

Would he really know that was his dad anyways? His only image is his dad in the vader suit with a head that looks like a hot dog left in the microwave too long. IMO switching it to Hayden adds more emotion to it because Luke now knows he has truly set his father free because the last time he was Anakin Skywalker was when he was young. I know this won't make sense to you and you'll disagree but this is how I feel.

I'm not meaning to be disagreeable here, just trying to point out why people who don't like the change feel the way they do.

That's cool but hopefully those that don't like it will understand why so many do like the changes.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

It's called redemption.

Young Anakin didn't redeem himself, old Anakin did. Why would he want to project an image of himself at the point in his life when he was selfish, arrogant and killing babies? Were those the happy time, good old days? I don't think any explanation can make that make sense to me.

 

[RoboDad]

His only image is his dad in the vader suit with a head that looks like a hot dog left in the microwave too long.

Maybe some of that effect is from one too many beat-downs from Palpatine when Vader didn't toe the line.

:emperor

 

[pixletwin]

I don't mind seeing Hayden, but yes it DOES bother me that the whole galaxy is celebrating, for the reasons you stated.

I never made the assumption that it was a simultaneous celebtration. I think it was just showing the different planets glad of being liberated. I never assumed they were at the same time. They may have been weeks apart, but for the sake of flow they were all shown in that particular scene.

 

[The Josh]

Maybe some of that effect is from one too many beat-downs from Palpatine when Vader didn't toe the line.

:emperor

Possibly. It was a wierd intergalactic marriage of sorts. So I guess we know who wore the pants in that one.

 

[pixletwin]

I don't like having Hayden as the ghost because it seems, at least to me, to excuse all of the things he did as Vader, as if he weren't really responsible. When you see old Anakin at the end, you see a jedi who has come full circle. The Hayden ending has a "the devil made me do it" feel to me, and that's a huge cop out imo.

It doens't need an excuse. The whole point of the force is being led where it wants to lead you. You don't dominate it to be evil (as the Sith do) or to be good (as the PT Jedi did). Quigon understood that. Anakin was fulfilling his destiny: to bring balance to the force. Unfortunately to acomplish that he needed to wipe out the Jedi order first and then wipe out the Sith order.

Being a force ghost is not a reward for good Jedi's (like Heaven or whatever) it is the end result of selfless sacrifice to the will of the force.

Thank you class.

 

[pixletwin]

To me, it works at more of an emotional level than an intellectual or logical one. We got to know Hayden as Anakin and watched as he screwed up his life, and the last we saw of him, he wasn't looking so great. For me, Hayden gives us the most representative image of Anakin from the six films. When I think of Anakin in general, I think of Hayden and not Sebastian Shaw. It's one thing to know that Anakin has been redeemed and see him in ROTJ as an old man played by an actor we are seeing for the first time, but I think it really hits you that Anakin has been restored when you see the old familiar face again, smiling and with all of his body parts back to normal. It lets your last image of Hayden in the trilogy be of him as a Jedi instead of a burnt up torso.

That was wonderfully put Tom.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Screw this debate, Hayden ghost sucks!

 

[Khev]

Young Anakin didn't redeem himself, old Anakin did. Why would he want to project an image of himself at the point in his life when he was selfish, arrogant and killing babies? Were those the happy time, good old days?

So you wanted the ghost to be Jake Lloyd?? I'm sorry but I don't agree with having him in ROTJ at all.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

So you wanted the ghost to be Jake Lloyd?? I'm sorry but I don't agree with having him in ROTJ at all.

What does adolescent Anakin have to redeem himself for? That makes no sense at all.

 

[Khev]

You're the one who specifically said you wanted a ghost version of Jake Lloyd waving at Luke at the end so you tell me.

 

[KitFisto]

The image should be of Hayden. It's Anakin as he was just before he turned. The last time he was "good". Before the greed and selfishness took over.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

You're the one who specifically said you wanted a ghost version of Jake Lloyd waving at Luke at the end so you tell me.

No I didn't, I said I wanted the image of old Anakin. You now, the one that realized he was being a huge ********* for the last 20 some years of his life and finally decided to show the strength of will to do the right thing. I don't know where you got Jake Lloyd from.

 

[Khev]

No I didn't, I said I wanted the image of old Anakin.

I know, I was just messing with you.

It really just comes down to preference. You can easily make "sense" of why either version should appear. I'm just glad that on this issue I agree with George.

 

[pixletwin]

What the crap is SW about folks? Its about REDEMPTION. Who better to show the Anakin that needed redemption than the Anakin we saw betraying the Jedi order, slaughtering younglings, choking his pregnant wife, and trying to kill his best friend?

Seriously, you want Sebastian Shaw to receive that? pshaw.

 

[pixletwin]

No I didn't, I said I wanted the image of old Anakin. You now, the one that realized he was being a huge ********* for the last 20 some years of his life and finally decided to show the strength of will to do the right thing. I don't know where you got Jake Lloyd from.

If thats the Anakin you want than you would have had the floating Uncle Fester ghost head bobbing up and down.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

What the crap is SW about folks? Its about REDEMPTION. Who better to show the Anakin that needed redemption than the Anakin we saw betraying the Jedi order, slaughtering younglings, choking his pregnant wife, and trying to kill his best friend?

Seriously, you want Sebastian Shaw to receive that? pshaw.

I think we should see the Anakin that actually managed to redeem himself, not the emotionally unstable, easily influenced one that needed redeeming. That's my opinion.

Now, I'll shut up about it.

 

[Khev]

I always thought it would have been funny if right after Luke set fire to Vader you hear the sound of someone snoring then awakening from a deep sleep. Then "Wait, where am I? What's burning? Its-AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!! NOT AGAIN, AAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! Why Luke WHY!!!!!!??? AAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!"