The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

[DioramaMaker]

I dunno if it's been touched on, but I'll just throw this into the hat.

The dormant thing is lame. These are supposed to be infiltrators. To be better at their job they need to learn about humans. As silly as that sounds, engaging in a human life is much more functional to that goal then waiting in a hanger for Judgement Day. That's why I don't have a problem with this idea.

Furthermore, perhaps the biggest thing to note is that perhaps Skynet simply doesn't predict that a machine can learn the value of human life. After enough yes and no data points, a self learning machine could logically make the "decision" that there is value to human life, even if initially the mission was to simply find a way to blend in. It's no different than a kid who learns that as they grow up.

Carl all around though is fine. He adheres to the lore formed in T2, we just don't see that occur as we had before. So the argument if it's "earned" is certainly valid. There's also the brief sciencey drivel about how erasing the timeline Carl comes from causes a ripple in time and has effects.

One thing I liked was when they're leaving the cabin and he inspects the glasses, they're the ones that he wore in the beginning to kill John. It's a nice visual arc.

I'm a day out now and still revisiting a lot of the movie in my mind in a good way. Where Genisys quickly lost what little luster it had from it's well done throwbacks, this seems to be holding on for me. I also am still really loving the rendition of the theme from the score as well.

 

[DiFabio]

And anyone who mentions the word 'trilogy'

We actually have a nice trilogy of Terminator films if you think about it! A trilogy of Terminator 3s!

T3: Rise of the Machines, Terminator: Genisys, Terminator Dark Fate

A trilogy of bad what if stories. What if Sarah died of cancer and John was some kind of homeless person? What if Sarah could defend herself in 1984 and John was the bad guy? What if John died and Sarah was an old lady?

What a trilogy it is.

 

[EndoSickness]

And anyone who mentions the word 'trilogy'

Well, buddy...after the successful future war movie...it...would be...one...

 

[jye4ever]

The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

I dunno if it's been touched on, but I'll just throw this into the hat.

The dormant thing is lame. These are supposed to be infiltrators. To be better at their job they need to learn about humans. As silly as that sounds, engaging in a human life is much more functional to that goal then waiting in a hanger for Judgement Day. That's why I don't have a problem with this idea.

Furthermore, perhaps the biggest thing to note is that perhaps Skynet simply doesn't predict that a machine can learn the value of human life. After enough yes and no data points, a self learning machine could logically make the "decision" that there is value to human life, even if initially the mission was to simply find a way to blend in. It's no different than a kid who learns that as they grow up.

Carl all around though is fine. He adheres to the lore formed in T2, we just don't see that occur as we had before. So the argument if it's "earned" is certainly valid. There's also the brief sciencey drivel about how erasing the timeline Carl comes from causes a ripple in time and has effects.

One thing I liked was when they're leaving the cabin and he inspects the glasses, they're the ones that he wore in the beginning to kill John. It's a nice visual arc.

I'm a day out now and still revisiting a lot of the movie in my mind in a good way. Where Genisys quickly lost what little luster it had from it's well done throwbacks, this seems to be holding on for me. I also am still really loving the rendition of the theme from the score as well.

I always liked that Skynet initially used big pumping iron and Franco skins to intimidate humans because in reality the most lethal infiltrator would be a regular looking person.

Their power comes from within their advanced powerful hydraulics and power cells combined with any future or present weapons of their choice.

What does having huge muscles have anything to do with their chances of success lol

Skynet must?ve realized this after skinny bois started beating their muscle head machines and created the 1000.



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[EndoSickness]

I dunno if it's been touched on, but I'll just throw this into the hat.

The dormant thing is lame. These are supposed to be infiltrators. To be better at their job they need to learn about humans. As silly as that sounds, engaging in a human life is much more functional to that goal then waiting in a hanger for Judgement Day. That's why I don't have a problem with this idea.

Furthermore, perhaps the biggest thing to note is that perhaps Skynet simply doesn't predict that a machine can learn the value of human life. After enough yes and no data points, a self learning machine could logically make the "decision" that there is value to human life, even if initially the mission was to simply find a way to blend in. It's no different than a kid who learns that as they grow up.

Carl all around though is fine. He adheres to the lore formed in T2, we just don't see that occur as we had before. So the argument if it's "earned" is certainly valid. There's also the brief sciencey drivel about how erasing the timeline Carl comes from causes a ripple in time and has effects.

One thing I liked was when they're leaving the cabin and he inspects the glasses, they're the ones that he wore in the beginning to kill John. It's a nice visual arc.

I'm a day out now and still revisiting a lot of the movie in my mind in a good way. Where Genisys quickly lost what little luster it had from it's well done throwbacks, this seems to be holding on for me. I also am still really loving the rendition of the theme from the score as well.

The bit with the glasses were way to heroic, but I 50% agree with the social learning bit. Overall...yes, but the real problem is the logic:
it was established that you can "reset the switch". Did he do that himself?!
No, he was programmed to follow and not to question, so how did he learn?!

 

[Khev]

The bit with the glasses were way to heroic, but I 50% agree with the social learning bit. Overall...yes, but the real problem is the logic:
it was established that you can "reset the switch". Did he do that himself?!
No, he was programmed to follow and not to question, so how did he learn?!

There's no "switch." He's a learning computer just like the 1984 Terminator. The T2 Special Edition switch scene isn't canon.

 

[EndoSickness]

There's no "switch." He's a learning computer just like the 1984 Terminator. The T2 Special Edition switch scene isn't canon.

It isn?t? I unfortunately can?t tell you where, as I can?t remember, but I read somewhere that it?s considered canon now...

 

[Khev]

I always liked that Skynet initially used big pumping iron and Franco skins to intimidate humans because jn reality the most lethal infiltrator would be a regular looking person.

Yeah that's the one saving grace of the non-charismatic Rev-9 since realistically he really *would* make the best and most surprising infiltrator.

I'm glad that DiFabio gave trashing this movie all he had because I now see that it does stand up to even the harshest criticism. It seems everything he doesn't like can just be boiled down to personal preference and head-canon. Which is fine of course and a perfectly valid reason to dismiss something. "Alien 3" syndrome that we have all experienced before.

Carl shows up, and either there's no protector or Carl kills the protector. Carl finds his target and eliminates it. Actually now that I think about it any talk of "secondary objectives" is mute because it's *1998!* So even if Carl *did* have a secondary objective it would have been based on him arriving one year after the nuclear war. So whatever his original mission was, maybe locate Skynet's headquarters, protect it, and eliminate all humans hiding under the rubble, it wouldn't compute because Judgment Day was averted and the world he appeared in didn't have those elements any more.

So his "blend in with humanity" default programming kicked in and he resorted to infiltrating himself within human society in a self-sustaining way. Going into deep cover mode meant extended contact with humans which means his mind and objectives can evolve. Look how Uncle Bob changed after one single day with John. Imagine a T-800 after almost 30 years. That's Carl. The text messages to Sarah didn't come until years later so they would have been coming from the highly indoctrinated Carl by that point.

As I've said before it's too bad that the action and Rev-9 actor weren't better because those are what keep this film down in the "respectable 6/10 but not great" territory. But the expanded mythos rocks.

 

[Khev]

It isn?t? I unfortunately can?t tell you where, as I can?t remember, but I read somewhere that it?s considered canon now...

That was an extended scene not shown in theaters or included on the current 4K disc. It also was a continuity error with the original movie since the 1984 Terminator didn't need to have his chip modified in order to learn new phrases and swear words.

 

[jye4ever]

Yeah that's the one saving grace of the non-charismatic Rev-9 since realistically he really *would* make the best and most surprising infiltrator.

I'm glad that DiFabio gave trashing this movie all he had because I now see that it does stand up to even the harshest criticism. It seems everything he doesn't like can just be boiled down to personal preference and head-canon. Which is fine of course and a perfectly valid reason to dismiss something. "Alien 3" syndrome that we have all experienced before.

Carl shows up, and either there's no protector or Carl kills the protector. Carl finds his target and eliminates it. Actually now that I think about it any talk of "secondary objectives" is mute because it's *1998!* So even if Carl *did* have a secondary objective it would have been based on him arriving one year after the nuclear war. So whatever his original mission was, maybe locate Skynet's headquarters, protect it, and eliminate all humans hiding under the rubble, it wouldn't compute because Judgment Day was averted and the world he appeared in didn't have those elements any more.

So his "blend in with humanity" default programming kicked in and he resorted to infiltrating himself within human society in a self-sustaining way. Going into deep cover mode meant extended contact with humans which means his mind and objectives can evolve. Look how Uncle Bob changed after one single day with John. Imagine a T-800 after almost 30 years. That's Carl. The text messages to Sarah didn't come until years later so they would have been coming from the highly indoctrinated Carl by that point.

As I've said before it's too bad that the action and Rev-9 actor weren't better because those are what keep this film down in the "respectable 6/10 but not great" territory. But the expanded mythos rocks.

I do agree with D regarding the Terminators jumping around like superheroes but you actually brought that up yourself in your video when you talked about the Matrix highway scene but what are you going to do welcome to modern cinema where technology is abused much like the Terminator plot so it actually makes sense lol


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[Khev]

I do agree with D regarding the Terminators jumping around like superheroes but you actually brought that up yourself in your video when you talked about the Matrix highway scene but what are you going to do welcome to modern cinema where technology is abused much like the Terminator plot so it actually makes sense lol

So true, lol. Even with CG characters jumping around they were still executed poorly even on that level. Alita should not appear to have more weight than an army of T-800 Endos marching across the beach, lol.

And once it was revealed that the Rev-9 was non-Skynet tech I tried to convince myself that maybe their metals are more lightweight allowing them to fly around easier until the end of the movie the Rev-9 punched Arnold causing even Carl to fly through the air and then I was all "son of a *****" lol.

 

[jye4ever]

So true, lol. Even with CG characters jumping around they were still executed poorly even on that level. Alita should not appear to have more weight than an army of T-800 Endos marching across the beach, lol.

And once it was revealed that the Rev-9 was non-Skynet tech I tried to convince myself that maybe their metals are more lightweight allowing them to fly around easier until the end of the movie the Rev-9 punched Arnold causing even Carl to fly through the air and then I was all "son of a *****" lol.

I?m happy you brought up their weight because honestly I think when it comes to that even T1 and T2 have varying degrees of rules.

I mean just the fact that he?s wearing human clothes doesn?t make sense because the shoes would just burst right open.

Their weight is never really specifically explained with what happens when they?re in active or in sleep mode similar with a car power steering allowing a person to steer tons of weight.

The whole 600 lbs we can?t have sex rule is a thing but then why can the motorcycles drive at full speed with them sitting on it lol


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[Khev]

Sarah said "She's never noticed that you weigh 400 lbs?" so I don't know if that's Cameron's canon weight for T-800's or just a guess by Sarah. That would have been funny if he said "After crushing my first three wives I came to the determination that 'girl on top' would be the best position going forward," lol.

I wonder what the weight limit is of a Harley Davidson. Just imagine that T2 jump he does into the canal with over 400 lbs coming down on that bike.

 

[a-dev]

Well they're supposed to be lighter than you might think. I mean Matt, in the first film, is able to tackle the T-800 around the legs and move him across the floor - unless that's more a balance-related thing - maybe the T-800 moved with him because otherwise he'd have toppled over, I dunno.

Either way I don't think they're supposed to be super-heavy otherwise, yeah, the Fatboy wouldn't have survived the jump into the canal in T2.

*cracks knuckles* Right, now to go back to respond to other stuff and abandon it in frustration like yesterday.

 

[Khev]

I'd say the T-800 is definitely heavier than a normal human but how heavy is anyone's guess. The T-1000 cracked the brick wall with Uncle Bob in the Galleria and I don't think we're meant to believe that the T-1000 is *that* strong so I assume he was using the T-800's weight against it. Also when Uncle Bob busted through the wall to rescue Sarah in Cyberdyne he seemed to be leaning into it as he shoved with his arms once again using his weight to make a bigger hole than just his arms would allow.

 

[jye4ever]

a-dev trying to post

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[Khev]

I literally lol'd.

 

[Khev]

Tim Miller says that Dark Fate doesn't show original Dani and that what we witnessed was an updated loop due to them having the coordinates for Carl on the second go around. So it looks like he's a believer in the "original John" theory as well.

Cameron says that the finished movie is the "the best film that could emerge from the rough cut." Ouch, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Tim Miller says that Dark Fate doesn't show original Dani and that what we witnessed was an updated loop due to them having the coordinates for Carl on the second go around. So it looks like he's a believer in the "original John" theory as well.

After the box office results i?m a believer in the Tim Miller will be working at Target theory.


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[Khev]

After the box office results i?m a believer in the Tim Miller will be working at Target theory.

Yep. Read the additional line that I added to my last post, lol.