The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

[Alice]

Yeah. She's very well known, is my point. Carl would be also. Hence, running a business is probably not the best thing to do when you're wanted by federal authorities and so easily identifiable.

Sarah not being incarcerated between T2 and Dark Fate means she was lying low and not bringing too much attention to herself. If Carl had just become a recluse in his cabin in the woods that would have made a bit more sense.

Also, Sarah's military inside man plot contrivance was a bit out of left field. He sorta came out of nowhere as a plot convenience to get the gang from the cabin onto the plane to kick off the final act of the movie. It wasn't organic.

I can definitely see Sarah finding a government connection with someone that believed her, as that plot element has been touched upon in several novel series (that were written and handled much better than this movie), but in T2 her friend Enrique was subtly set up early in the movie. Several times John talks about hanging around ex-military and guerrilla types. Sarah even tells Uncle Bob to head south, because she has friends there before we're introduced to Enrique and his family. In Dark Fate, her military connection is not even hinted at until literal seconds before the character shows up. When he showed up I was trying to figure out who he was, and if he was a significant character. Was I supposed to know this person? I initially didn't catch his name, so I though it might have been Danny Dyson, all grown up and allied with Sarah. But then I quickly realized, nope. This guy is literally just a red shirt here to serve as a glorified Star Wars screen wipe from scene A to B.

 

[e30ernest]

Yeah I first thought the military guy was Dyson's son. My best guess is that he's Sarah's weapon supplier. That connection was just out of nowhere.

On a related note, the music of Terminator Dark Fate:



As a former musician, I'm always intrigued by the composer's thinking process when he/she writes a piece.

 

[Khev]

Yeah. She's very well known, is my point. Carl would be also. Hence, running a business is probably not the best thing to do when you're wanted by federal authorities and so easily identifiable.

In the US it's illegal to hire undocumented immigrants but not illegal for an undocumented immigrant to start his own business though. Even if he just wanted to lay low and fund as much of his arsenal as possible legally then running a business that doesn't ruffle any feathers probably would have been the best way to go.

The Cyberdyne siege would have made national news of course but for all we know authorities would have been on the hunt for a massively disfigured, near crippled man. Assuming they were unaware that he got dumped in molten steel.

 

[jye4ever]

I loved it that Sarah went from this little waitress who owned a lizard for a pet to her having access to EMP weapons


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[Khev]

I loved it that Sarah went from this little waitress who owned a lizard for a pet to her having access to EMP weapons

Did they say how many times Carl texted her prior to Grace showing up? I guess we have to assume that she had only eliminated Skynet T-800's up until then because her weaponry didn't seem like it'd be capable of finishing off a Rev-9.

Going back to Alice's point about whether the authorities would be hunting for Carl it's possible that Sarah publicly obliterated a different T-800 causing the case of the 1984 police station murders to be closed.

 

[Alice]

I'm aware. I'm from the US, and I had a business there before moving to Australia. Even as an undocumented immigrant, which, in itself, would raise some flags, you have to apply for the appropriate non-citizen visa to open a business, as well as meet tons of other requirements that would put you under quite a bit of scrutiny by the US government.

Maybe in the next 'trilogy' a model 101 will have taken up some political position as cover. Perhaps even governor of California, since it seems popular to just write the T-800 as Arnold himself.

It's not like any of this is any less believable than John Connor becoming a politician in the alternate ending of T2 after blowing up Cyberdyne and being a fugitive from the US government. But then, that ending was deleted.

 

[Khev]

It's not like any of this is any less believable than John Connor becoming a politician in the alternate ending of T2 after blowing up Cyberdyne and being a fugitive from the US government. But then, that ending was deleted.

Ha ha, very true. I just think that the 20ish year gap between films does provide a sufficient amount of wiggle room to imagine how things could have played out prior to the start of DF in a feasible enough manner.

 

[e30ernest]

Just a thought, Carl is a very advanced machine. I think he could falsify records if he needs to. Granted, the T-800's technologies as depicted is very 80's, he probably has the expertise to access other computers and alter data.

 

[e30ernest]

Just a thought, Carl is a very advanced machine. I think he could falsify records if he needs to. Granted, the T-800's technologies as depicted are very 80's, he probably has the expertise to access other computers and alter data.

 

[a-dev]

Anyways the future war stuff in this movie was breathtaking the speed of the troop transport rattling the car causing the skulls to roll off.

We were totaling going to get that but now denied.

Grrr

Has this new future war replaced the original as the one you guys want to see?

Traitors!

 

[Robopredinator]

Yeah. She's very well known, is my point. Carl would be also. Hence, running a business is probably not the best thing to do when you're wanted by federal authorities and so easily identifiable.

Sarah not being incarcerated between T2 and Dark Fate means she was lying low and not bringing too much attention to herself. If Carl had just become a recluse in his cabin in the woods that would have made a bit more sense.

Also, Sarah's military inside man plot contrivance was a bit out of left field. He sorta came out of nowhere as a plot convenience to get the gang from the cabin onto the plane to kick off the final act of the movie. It wasn't organic.

I can definitely see Sarah finding a government connection with someone that believed her, as that plot element has been touched upon in several novel series (that were written and handled much better than this movie), but in T2 her friend Enrique was subtly set up early in the movie. Several times John talks about hanging around ex-military and guerrilla types. Sarah even tells Uncle Bob to head south, because she has friends there before we're introduced to Enrique and his family. In Dark Fate, her military connection is not even hinted at until literal seconds before the character shows up. When he showed up I was trying to figure out who he was, and if he was a significant character. Was I supposed to know this person? I initially didn't catch his name, so I though it might have been Danny Dyson, all grown up and allied with Sarah. But then I quickly realized, nope. This guy is literally just a red shirt here to serve as a glorified Star Wars screen wipe from scene A to B.

Yes!! Totally wasn't an organic progression and came off as poor writing to more easily connect scenes like you say. What's even more irksome is that it could have easily been fixed if he had been Dyson's son.

 

[Stront]

Have you guys ever checked this site out? An enjoyable read on the background of Skynet.

https://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/skynet.html

 

[DiFabio]

I just watched T2 last night, been a year or two since I?ve seen it in it’s entirety (it was the 3D theatrical realease, what ever year that was). The Uncle Bob T-800 is pretty ****ing stoic. I never realized how little lines he has and he really just speaks when spoken too. It?s a great Arnold performance. A lot of it is John and Sarah talking while he looks off into the distance, scanning.

The thing that is annoying about the Terminator in T3, Genisys and Dark Fate is how often he rattles off percentages and probabilities with hard numbers. It?s ****ing stupid and ridiculous. He never does that in the first two. He never sounds like ****ing C-3PO or a stereotypical robot. In T2, the T-800 always speaks about things in a matter-of-fact manner. Once John starts teaching him ****, he actually starts developing a personality and becomes cool. The little smile he has in the bunker is appropriate in that moment (meaning he gets it) and you get the idea that he actually *likes* the guns and the armory. It?s a Terminator, through and through. That little flippant ?whatever? look he gives John when asked if he learned why he can?t just go around killing people on the way to Dyson?s is subtle and brilliant. A far cry to the over acting Arnold would do as the T-850, Pops and Carl in later movies. It?s almost like Arnold forgot how to play the character after the 90s and writers forgot how to write him.

There is no way in hell that character, as seen in T2, would develop into a cuckold like Carl. Owning a drapery business? Being hospitalable and serving guests beer with cut up limes? You got to be kidding me. If he had lived on past T2 (which would be impossible considering the damage he sustained at the steel mill), he?d Be an enforcer type that blows **** up, not a cuck raising some Mexican chick’s kid (like Arnold is doing now with his own bastard son). Every character moment with the T2 T-800 feels earned, ESPECIALLY his sacrifice at the end where he is lowered into the molten steel. That’s a lot more gut wrenching than the whole EMP nonsense in Dark Fate that they ripped off of T2. The final thumbs up to his homie John solidifies his whole arc in that film.

Dark Fate ****s on everything the first two films established. Dani takes Sarah and John’s legacy and importance from them. “Legion” is a knock off Skynet. Kyle Reese is supplanted by Grace. The “no fate” message is stolen and used between Dani and Grace instead of Reese to Sarah, Sarah to John, and John to the Terminator. Then, last but not least, the very essence of the Terminator character is subverted for a twist reveal and lame quick gags. They turned it into a farce. I don’t see how a fan of Cameron’s films could like it. It really is horrible.

 

[a-dev]

Did you even find any of it funny while watching it or were you mainly just pissed off about it?

I'm probably not gonna consider it canon but it'd be nice to at least get some lols out of it before Terminator finally succumbs to its ever-diminishing returns.

 

[DiFabio]

No, I was just pissed the entire time. I think you will be too, especially when you think of the amount of money they wasted producing this turd. We could write a much better movie. It’s insulting looking at the writers credits and thinking it took a dozen people to come up with this garbage.

T-850’s scheningans in T3 or the “bad boys” montage with Pops in Genisys are actually funny. Carl is just cringe worthy. When he starts talking about the different types of drapes, I was actually getting pissed and wanted to leave.

There is this scene at Carl’s home and there are all these family photos of a him as a younger Terminator. It’s really cheesy. If I had read these spoilers before going in, especially with the name “Carl” and the drapery business thing, I would think it was a prank or a joke. I’m actually glad I went in fresh though because it completely mystified me that they would chose to do something like this.

 

[Khev]

Has this new future war replaced the original as the one you guys want to see?

Traitors!

Honestly I think the ship has sailed on the Skynet future war. And not because of any alternate timeline introduce in Dark Fate. I think we've just been teased with too many scenes in too many movies by now for a full length feature to have proper impact any more. Kind of like how too many Batman movies have sampled "The Dark Knight Returns" for them to really be able to go and adapt the whole story any more.

I'd love to be proven wrong of course, actually what would *really* be awesome is if they pulled a Rogue One and showed trailers for a new Terminator film that looked decent enough and then when you watch it it's pretty familiar until *bam* this massive surprise third act future war like the RO space battle but with all the proper Cameron aesthetics, young Kyle Reese running around using discarded 1983 Michael Biehn footage inserted perfectly in with discarded T2 "prologue John Connor" footage, HK's and T-800's all over the place. My jaw would be on the floor.

And I don't get why every single Skynet future war, from T3 all the way up through Genysis and even DF has to copy the T2 opening with clean Endos walking around. Where are all the fully fleshed Arnolds and Franco Columbos? I'd want to see those on the battlefield too. Because based on the future wars depicted in T2/T3/TG/DF Reese was a stone-faced liar when he said that the new models were hard to spot. How hard is it to notice giant silver skeletons walking around, lol.

I just watched T2 last night

The new 4K transfer is amazing. Hopefully T1 gets the same treatment when DF hits shelves.

 

[a-dev]

Honestly I think the ship has sailed on the Skynet future war. And not because of any alternate timeline introduce in Dark Fate. I think we've just been teased with too many scenes in too many movies by now for a full length feature to have proper impact any more. Kind of like how too many Batman movies have sampled "The Dark Knight Returns" for them to really be able to go and adapt the whole story any more.

Yeah, fair point. And that's a damn shame. A travesty.

And I don't get why every single Skynet future war, from T3 all the way up through Genysis and even DF has to copy the T2 opening with clean Endos walking around. Where are all the fully fleshed Arnolds and Franco Columbos? I'd want to see those on the battlefield too. Because based on the future wars depicted in T2/T3/TG/DF Reese was a stone-faced liar when he said that the new models were hard to spot. How hard is it to notice giant silver skeletons walking around, lol.

As I understand it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, in the T2 future war scene we were witnessing the final battle between the Resistance and the machines at or near to Skynet HQ. It may not have been typical for Skynet to deploy an army of skinless T-800s. Therefore Reese's experiences can be assumed to have been with the fleshed up infiltrators.

 

[Khev]

Oh I'm fine with Reese's accounts based on T1 and T2. Like you said the T2 battle could have certainly been the final free-for-all when Skynet was sending out every T-800 it had whether it had been properly "dressed" or not. But then T3, TG, and that crappy beach scene in DF had to all carry on like naked Endos were their primary foot soldiers regardless of circumstance.

 

[Alice]

And I don't get why every single Skynet future war, from T3 all the way up through Genysis and even DF has to copy the T2 opening with clean Endos walking around. Where are all the fully fleshed Arnolds and Franco Columbos? I'd want to see those on the battlefield too. Because based on the future wars depicted in T2/T3/TG/DF Reese was a stone-faced liar when he said that the new models were hard to spot. How hard is it to notice giant silver skeletons walking around, lol.

There's a legitimate reason for that in T2, though. The opening scene depicts the final battle, and Skynet, out of desperation, dumped everything it had available onto the battlefield. The T-800s were never meant to be foot soldiers. They were specifically made to be infiltration units. There are no T-800s shown in the T1 future scenes except for the Franco infiltrator. So, Reese didn't lie. Just every movie post T2 has muddied the waters about unskinned T-800s on the battlefield, because the people making the movies just think "It looks rad!"

Yeah, fair point. And that's a damn shame. A travesty.



As I understand it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, in the T2 future war scene we were witnessing the final battle between the Resistance and the machines at or near to Skynet HQ. It may not have been typical for Skynet to deploy an army of skinless T-800s. Therefore Reese's experiences can be assumed to have been with the fleshed up infiltrators.

EDIT: Beat me to it while I was typing.

 

[e30ernest]

Heh looking at the comments in YouTube, it looks like majority of the people dissing the film haven't seen it at all. Which is sad. I get it if you watched it and didn't like it. But to criticize a film you didn't watch just seems weird.

IMO what killed this franchise were all the sequels to T2. This film isn't horrible, it's not great either. IMO it doesn't deserve to be ignored by the masses. Too bad, we won't be getting the potential sequels. Based on what Cameron said, those would have been interesting.