The Book Of Boba Fett (December 2021)

[Mondragon]

Cassian himself was a weak character though and poorly cast. I never believed that guy was a gritty spy capable of the things he tried to say and do.

He seemed haunted by his actions and "choices", so much that a suicide mission was his knowing only redemption. To bring hope to those that will survive him, and will matter.
Great set-up for a show to see how he got there.
Like others it's actually the show I'm looking forward to most.

 

[matticus]

Speaking of TLJ you know I loved Luke in that movie

Couldn't agree more.

It's one of the reasons I have some hope (though not much) that Cassian could be an interesting show... as a Bondian spy-thriller-style Star Wars would be epic to me.

But then, we get what people seem to like: repetition. I mean, first Mando and now Fett... as if Mando wasn't already the Fett-lite show.

Interesting. SW does stick to it's kind of fantasy sci-fi genre and doesn't sway from it unlike Marvel, which dabbles into all types of different sub-genres. Maybe that is why it is very stagnant and boring. Rogue One did bring that heist genre which might be why it is the best Disney SW movie. Solo might have boded well if it was more comedic like it was supposed to be.

 

[Wor-Gar]

willfully ignored...

I have to do that with a lot more Star Wars stuff than I ever imagined as a young boy that summer in 1977 when everything Star Wars was perfect.

 

[ajp4mgs]

His whole arc was fraught with failure, missteps and imperfection
And he wore his failure permanently as one of the greatest narrative symbols on his hand.
Recognizing and living with his imperfection is why he's a great beloved character.
It's you who needs to pretend that arc didn't happen, and instead argue he's perfect.

I don't need to pretend that his OT arc didn't happen because I'm keeping it in mind the whole time as I'm watching him struggle with what to do about the cyclical nature of evil tearing his family (and the galaxy) apart. He's burdened by being responsible for a new generation of super-powered Jedi and faced with the same helpless reality that his mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda faced. This isn't the same type of missteps he faced in the OT; it's a new dynamic, and explored as such in TLJ.

He's not a god, but he has responsibilities and burdens that a human would struggle to deal with. He's a teacher, and an uncle, but also a Jedi guardian of the peace who has to decide what to do when something has insidiously infected his most powerful student and nephew. He's perceived as a legend, and as someone who can save an entire galaxy with a laser sword, but he also knows that fighting with that saber had nothing to do with the victory in ROTJ. Luke didn't defeat the Empire by using his lightsaber; he opened the door for its defeat by tossing it away, and thus setting an example (even if that aspect wasn't something he was counting on). He has to do right by his values, but he also has to deal with the fear of losing what he loves if he doesn't do enough, or do the most difficult thing.

I see it as a constant struggle. He'll always be tempted by fear; always being put to the test. Why I appreciated his story in TLJ is because it was interesting to see him wrestle with what to do. Interesting to see him handle consequences of something he was directly involved in. Interesting to see that you can always use your mentor, no matter how great you get. And interesting to see him rise out of his worst moment, and his cluttered logic about how to end the cycle. He overcame challenges on a level he hadn't faced in the OT. In the OT, none of Vader's conflict/redemption was Luke's fault. The Empire rising wasn't a failure on Luke's part. Now he was blaming himself for something equally devastating. You clearly didn't want to see it, and think it was some sort of regression. I found it compelling and saw Hamill give the performance of his career making Luke in his 60's a much more layered character than in Luke's 20's. Relatable in one way, and then ultimately heroic in a way I can only aspire to. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

 

[Mondragon]

You are trying^ to re-describe a narrative, his failure in the tree cave, instinct to rush to rescue his friends which all leads to him becoming his father ...or dying, and pretending this wasn't something he faced, or was not part of his narrative struggle.
So you can pretend this is new in the sequels.
You apparently need to do that to somehow justify his narrative regression.

The only way to defeat it was to recognize what he was, not fear it any longer.
This never made him perfect, this made him aware.
And gave him something to pass on.

Disney and your narrative need to deny and thus absolutely betray that.

 

[Khev]

I have to do that with a lot more Star Wars stuff than I ever imagined as a young boy that summer in 1977 when everything Star Wars was perfect.

Yeah I remember as a kid checking out the comics and "Han Solo at Star's End" and being taken aback that both were something SW related that I didn't love, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Was that with Jaxxon the green rabbit?

 

[Khev]

Yep, Star's End was a Han and Chewie spin-off novel and the comics featured the rabbit, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The crap started so early...

 

[Mondragon]

Star Hoopers
Now there is something rife for Disney/Marvel to revisit!
..

Next should obviously be the Full Star Hoppers Crew!
If they need real world likeness for faces, use some of the fan cast bellow;
If you don't get (or have to look up) why Sebastian Stan's likeness works as the StarKiller Kid, turn in your SW fan card now!

Indeed! yet somebody had to have the strength to make the difficult choice.

Also would finally give Sebastian Stan the vehicle to appear in Star Wars as the Starkiller Kid Luke clone that everyone wants.

 

[Khev]

I don't need to pretend that his OT arc didn't happen because I'm keeping it in mind the whole time as I'm watching him struggle with what to do about the cyclical nature of evil tearing his family (and the galaxy) apart. He's burdened by being responsible for a new generation of super-powered Jedi and faced with the same helpless reality that his mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda faced. This isn't the same type of missteps he faced in the OT; it's a new dynamic, and explored as such in TLJ.

He's not a god, but he has responsibilities and burdens that a human would struggle to deal with. He's a teacher, and an uncle, but also a Jedi guardian of the peace who has to decide what to do when something has insidiously infected his most powerful student and nephew. He's perceived as a legend, and as someone who can save an entire galaxy with a laser sword, but he also knows that fighting with that saber had nothing to do with the victory in ROTJ. Luke didn't defeat the Empire by using his lightsaber; he opened the door for its defeat by tossing it away, and thus setting an example (even if that aspect wasn't something he was counting on). He has to do right by his values, but he also has to deal with the fear of losing what he loves if he doesn't do enough, or do the most difficult thing.

I see it as a constant struggle. He'll always be tempted by fear; always being put to the test. Why I appreciated his story in TLJ is because it was interesting to see him wrestle with what to do. Interesting to see him handle consequences of something he was directly involved in. Interesting to see that you can always use your mentor, no matter how great you get. And interesting to see him rise out of his worst moment, and his cluttered logic about how to end the cycle. He overcame challenges on a level he hadn't faced in the OT. In the OT, none of Vader's conflict/redemption was Luke's fault. The Empire rising wasn't a failure on Luke's part. Now he was blaming himself for something equally devastating. You clearly didn't want to see it, and think it was some sort of regression. I found it compelling and saw Hamill give the performance of his career making Luke in his 60's a much more layered character than in Luke's 20's. Relatable in one way, and then ultimately heroic in a way I can only aspire to. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

Great post ajp. Plus his reaction to the darkness that he saw in Ben Solo was hardly a regression from his arc in ROTJ. In ROTJ Vader merely stated that "perhaps" his sister would turn to the Dark Side and Luke absolutely went *ballistic*, attacking and wailing on Vader in a rage over and over and over and over until Vader was laid out like a beaten puppy.

In TLJ Luke saw an even *worse* threat in Ben's mind (the destruction of *everything* he held dear) and simply turned on his lightsaber for a brief moment before thinking better of it. That was hardly a step back from his behavior in ROTJ, in fact it showed quite the opposite. Everything else going to pot was then on account of Ben's overreaction, but that was out of Luke's control at that point.

Now if someone wants to say "well I just don't think that Luke should have been placed in such a situation in the first place because I didn't like seeing that struggle or side of him after the high note of ROTJ" then that's fair but that's just a matter of preference and not a failing on the continuation of his character arc IMO.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The Sith are a bunch of over-reactors.

First, Anakin just drops to his knees and says "sure, I'm Vader now"... then Ben wakes up, sees Luke with a saber and instantly goes Dark Side. Bunch of panzies.

I mean, Ben Solo is in training, maybe Luke was pulling a Kato on him with an surprise "attack"?

 

[Mondragon]

Great post ajp. Plus his reaction to the darkness that he saw in Ben Solo was hardly a regression from his arc in ROTJ. In ROTJ Vader merely stated that "perhaps" his sister would turn to the Dark Side and Luke absolutely went *ballistic*, attacking and wailing on Vader in a rage over and over and over and over until Vader was laid out like a beaten puppy.

In TLJ Luke saw an even *worse* threat in Ben's mind (the destruction of *everything* he held dear) and simply turned on his lightsaber for a brief moment before thinking better of it. That was hardly a step back from his behavior in ROTJ, in fact it showed quite the opposite. Everything else going to pot was then on account of Ben's overreaction, but that was out of Luke's control at that point.

Now if someone wants to say "well I just don't think that Luke should have been placed in such a situation in the first place because I didn't like seeing that struggle or side of him after the high note of ROTJ" then that's fair but that's just a matter of preference and not a failing on the continuation of his character arc IMO.

So once forced to admit he would be "aware"
Your new spin to justify Luke's character regression becomes - but it's an " even *worse* threat" this time. That's like Nigel, thinking it's a better amp sound cause it's got "11"

Becoming aware that his instinct to protect others, would be used against him, upping the fear and threat to those he cared for was the trap he faced.
So now you have to deny him that part of his arc and awareness too.

Don't have a problem with you liking it, (and I like all the new characters) but if you are arguing it was some progressive forward moving take on Luke's character, I call BS.

 

[Khev]

So once forced to admit he would be "aware"
Your new spin to justify Luke's character regression becomes - but it's an " even *worse* threat" this time.

You're like Nigel, thinking it's a better amp sound cause it's got "11"

Becoming aware that his instinct to protect others, would be used against him, upping the fear and threat to those he cared for was the trap.
So now you have to deny him that part of his arc and awareness too.

In ROTJ Luke reacted to a threat that he wasn't expecting by going into a murderous rage.

In TLJ Luke reacted to an even greater threat that he wasn't expecting by turning on his lightsaber for a split second and then instantly regaining his composure.

Like ajp I never saw Luke as or wanted him to be a cartoon character who made no mistakes (which is quite literally what Mando Season 2 gave us. ) He was human, imperfect, flawed, but even then still handled himself in Ben's tent better than he did under the stairs in Jedi. So I'm not seeing the so-called regression.

Now if you see Luke's journey as being about drinking milk without spilling then yes he regressed from who he was in ANH, lol.

 

[matticus]

In ROTJ Luke reacted to a threat that he wasn't expecting by going into a murderous rage.

What

 

[Mondragon]

In ROTJ Luke reacted to a threat that he wasn't expecting by going into a murderous rage.

In TLJ Luke reacted to an even greater threat that he wasn't expecting by turning on his lightsaber for a split second and then instantly regaining his composure.

Like ajp I never saw Luke as or wanted him to be a cartoon character who made no mistakes (which is quite literally what Mando Season 2 gave us. ) He was human, imperfect, flawed, but even then still handled himself in Ben's tent better than he did under the stairs in Jedi. So I'm not seeing the so-called regression.

Now if you see Luke's journey as being about drinking milk without spilling then yes he regressed from who he was in ANH, lol.

"handled himself in Ben's tent better than he did under the stairs in Jedi. So I'm not seeing the so-called regression."

The spin to justify "he handled himself "better"", you have to compare him (regress him) to under the stairs, and deny his actual learned actions and arc after.
Which is my point.

Again Luke is not perfect, far from it, the greatest symbol of his failure is worn on his hand, it's a part of him he recognizes it, it's what he looks at and compels his final action, decidedly recognizes that fear is a part of him, his father, his line, his humanity. That innate fear (upon seeing what he is becoming) he decides will not control him, and thus tuns off his saber.
Any kid can follow it. That's why symbols a great.
This recognition "awareness" of what he is, (that you want to deny him), brings about the action that transforms not only him, but is the vehicle by which he transforms and brings hope to his lost father, who sees his son make the choice, do the one thing he never imagined, reveling that there is a way out of the trap.
That learned choice, defines Luke going froward, by way of recognizing his flaw and failure (again which he wears on his hand), to what he now has to impart to transform others around him. That is the return of the Jedi by way of Luke.
Again he is not perfect, far from it, he is aware.

You and the giggling Johnson need to constantly deny him that learned experience, action, and "awareness" to justify the regressive narrative they place dim in the TLJ that you've gobbled up, and which betrays all that Luke learned and was.

I don't have a problem with you liking the sequels, (and I like all the new lead characters, I jumped out of my seat and cheered when the saber flew into Rey's hands) but if you are arguing it was some progressive forward moving take on Luke's character, I call BS.

And again this^ is worth repeating since it often gets lost in the discussion.

 

[Khev]

What

 

[matticus]

I take that as being protective of his sister. He has almost done everything he can to convince his father to walk away from the dark side and Vader keeps coming after him. Going after his sister now instead of him simply went too far.

 

[Khev]

I take that as being protective of his sister. He has almost done everything he can to convince his father to walk away from the dark side and Vader keeps coming after him. Going after his sister now instead of him simply went too far.

Well Anakin did everything he did because he was "being protective of Padme." It still doesn't justify going full Sith psycho now does it?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Great post ajp. Plus his reaction to the darkness that he saw in Ben Solo was hardly a regression from his arc in ROTJ. In ROTJ Vader merely stated that "perhaps" his sister would turn to the Dark Side and Luke absolutely went *ballistic*, attacking and wailing on Vader in a rage over and over and over and over until Vader was laid out like a beaten puppy.

In TLJ Luke saw an even *worse* threat in Ben's mind (the destruction of *everything* he held dear) and simply turned on his lightsaber for a brief moment before thinking better of it. That was hardly a step back from his behavior in ROTJ, in fact it showed quite the opposite. Everything else going to pot was then on account of Ben's overreaction, but that was out of Luke's control at that point.

Now if someone wants to say "well I just don't think that Luke should have been placed in such a situation in the first place because I didn't like seeing that struggle or side of him after the high note of ROTJ" then that's fair but that's just a matter of preference and not a failing on the continuation of his character arc IMO.

Yep. If the ROTJ climax was supposed to have made Luke impervious to fear and giving in to it forever more, he'd essentially be perfect from that point on. But what's the precedent for that? Certainly not Yoda, who was giving in to fear after 880 years of life. Lucas went out of his way to have the consequences of Yoda's (and the rest of the Council's) fear-based missteps be escalation of a galactic war and a pupil turned Sith.

Luke's OT character arc was learning not to let fear turn into aggression. In so doing, he showed his father what Anakin's true mistake was. And that redemption helped save everyone. In TLJ, Luke explicitly demonstrates that lesson by having his lightsaber moment be merely fleeting. That's him connecting with those lessons learned. Because this time, it didn't take swinging the saber to within an inch of murdering a family member. I don't think I'll ever understand how that's been so twisted in opposing ways by people watching the same movie. He had a fear-based impulse. He controlled it in almost superhuman haste. But **** still hit the fan because some things will be beyond his control.

Fear will always be something these characters have to overcome. Otherwise they're godlike, not relatable, and less effective in imparting practical lessons to an audience. Luke, like his mentors before him, confronted fear of great magnitude as a Jedi Master. The difference is that Luke reigned it in almost immediately. But even so, there were consequences outside of his control. How he reacted to that is what says anything at all about where he's at. It set up his character's ST arc, which was *not* just a retread of his OT one.

Luke was defined by surging emotions as much as anything throughout the OT. So how credible would it be for Luke to be able to suppress his emotions enough in *every* post-ROTJ scenario to overcome fear before it could even trigger a fleeting emotion? Seems like a major overreach to me, and beyond credibility. So the important takeaway (apparently not taken away by many fans, however ) is that Luke's emotions later in his life get suppressed far quicker *because of* the old lessons he learned.

And when he acts to fix things, he rejects the idea of grabbing his saber to do so. Instead, he tries his best to act selflessly to end a cycle he should've known he can't end. Because he's not a god, no matter how much his legend may have made him out to be one. And that's where his mentor returns to help Luke understand both his limits and his limitless ability to set an example.

We may be in the minority, Khev, but who cares?