The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[wofford29]

Problem with that is she has sex with him AFTER acquiring the bomb and Wayne Enterprises.

I personally think the entire point of the sex corresponds with Bane's speech in the pit about Hope. It's no coincidence it comes a few scenes after that.

 

[thenammagazine]

I personally think the entire point of the sex corresponds with Bane's speech in the pit about Hope. It's no coincidence it comes a few scenes after that.

So she was hoping to have some chone-chone with Wayne, the man she hates and wants dead because in her eyes he murdered her father, before blowing up Gotham?

 

[Khev]

As long as Bruce was up and about and able bodied he was a threat to Talia's entire operation and she knew that trust for basically anyone was something he really didn't have. She recognized that his trusting her with the fusion reactor was born out of desperation "it doesn't count you have no other choice" and she wanted to seal the deal and have him hook, line, and sinker until she had fully taken over the city.

Sleeping with him gave her an unwitting superhero bodyguard until she was ready to reveal her intentions on her terms.

 

[Khev]

Oh he gave plenty of chances

Pretty much every line she spoke had connotations to her real identity

True, her talk of "balance" and whatnot at Wayne Manor was reminiscent of Ra's rhetoric.

What's cool about her being at the stock exchange (I still have to check the blu-ray to verify for myself) is that during the takeover as the gunman are securing the floor Bane turns around and nods at someone off camera. I found it fascinating that any henchman would have his respect to the level that he would nod to them. If it's true that Talia was there she must have been the one he was looking at! That's awesome.

 

[wofford29]

So she was hoping to have some chone-chone with Wayne, the man she hates and wants dead because in her eyes he murdered her father, before blowing up Gotham?

She was giving him hope, not the other way around. Did you even listen to Bane's speech in the pit?

 

[DiFabio]

Sleeping with him gave her an unwitting superhero bodyguard until she was ready to reveal her intentions on her terms.

But she was never gonna reveal herself!

Bruce comes back into the city, unbeknownst to everyone with only a few hours left before the bomb goes off! There's no way Talia and Bane expected him to come out of that pit, let alone give him a big reveal especially not with mere hours to go.

And I got the idea that there wasn't an escape plan, that Talia and Bane were hardcore. You can see it at the end with her crazy speech to Batman. Both of them were nutters ready to go for the cause. They planned on dying with Gotham.

Plot and story wise it doesn't make any sense, especially when the big revelations start coming in. It's fine for pure feelings and experience, but motives and scenarios don't make any sense. Why would Bane say to one of his main men, "IMPOSSIBLE, keep her close, he'll come for her" if hours before, Talia not only saw Bruce return, but Bane is literally her second hand man/partner in this thing? Surely the soldiers know who she is as well, all the ones in City Hall, including Barsad.


I don't think that's over thinking it at all. It works fine one viewing, keeps the suspense u,p but on repeat viewings, everyone's natural reactions to situations in the story don't make any sense.

What's cool about her being at the stock exchange (I still have to check the blu-ray to verify for myself) is that during the takeover as the gunman are securing the floor Bane turns around and nods at someone off camera. I found it fascinating that any henchman would have his respect to the level that he would nod to them. If it's true that Talia was there she must have been the one he was looking at! That's awesome.

Yup, you're definitely onto something there. Go watch it. After I caught her entering the stock exchange and seeing her in the crowd, I noticed Bane's little nod.

I thought I'd just have that be debunked (someone say he's just nodding to one of his men) though considering that would give further proof that Talia is the brains, leader, overseer and mind of the organization.

 

[ZaCHw117]

But she was never gonna reveal herself!

Bruce comes back into the city, unbeknownst to everyone with only a few hours left before the bomb goes off! There's no way Talia and Bane expected him to come out of that pit, let alone give him a big reveal especially not with mere hours to go.

And I got the idea that there wasn't an escape plan, that Talia and Bane were hardcore. You can see it at the end with her crazy speech to Batman. Both of them were nutters ready to go for the cause. They planned on dying with Gotham.

Plot and story wise it doesn't make any sense, especially when the big revelations start coming in. It's fine for pure feelings and experience, but motives and scenarios don't make any sense. Why would Bane say to one of his main men, "IMPOSSIBLE, keep her close, he'll come for her" if hours before, Talia not only saw Bruce return, but Bane is literally her second hand man/partner in this thing? Surely the soldiers know who she is as well, all the ones in City Hall, including Barsad.

Talia would have revealed herself to Bruce in the prison. Hell, even Bane said after he tears apart Gotham, then Bruce can die. Of course we don't fully know if Bane was going to come back to the prison afterwords and kill him, or if he was going to stay in Gotham, while Talia escaped (she obviously was going too.) Before the bomb goes off and reveal herself to Bruce. That's the thing though, we'll never really know how it would have happened, because it didn't.

Also, I think when Bane says "IMPOSSIBLE" he's referring to Wayne jumping into the Batman persona again. After Bane broke him. In the final battle Bane still looks confused "I broke you..." He really didn't think Wayne had it in him. Even if Talia told Bane that he's back, that doesn't mean he thought that batman is back (or even could be physically back) as well.

 

[DiFabio]

Talia would have revealed herself to Bruce in the prison. Hell, even Bane said after he tears apart Gotham, then Bruce can die. Of course we don't fully know if Bane was going to come back to the prison afterwords and kill him, or if he was going to stay in Gotham, while Talia escaped (she obviously was going too.) Before the bomb goes off and reveal herself to Bruce. That's the thing though, we'll never really know how it would have happened, because it didn't.

How are they gonna do that though, Talia and Bane. Bruce gets back in the city with less than a day to go, less than a half a day to go!

Without Bruce or Batman reappearing, there's even less time and Talia and Bane haven't evacuated and Talia is still hidden as Miranda Tate, pretending she's going to go on trial (even though Bruce isn't around). So Talia and Bane were still ****ing around . . . and to top it all off, Gordon and his men are still trying to counter their plot WITHOUT Batman's help. They probably would have been executed, Blake too, but by that time, they only have THAT morning.

But that's not all. Nobody can leave the city, in or out, not even Talia and Bane. The city is on high alert and surrounded by the military. We see with Basard that if anyone tries to leave or enter, they'll blow the bridges sky high. Cops, military, etc. WON'T let anyone leave, not even a fellow cop and a bunch of orphan kids.


No way Talia and Bane planned to escape or reveal themselves to Bruce, especially not after Talia's crazy speech. They were gonna die in the fire. There's no possible escape route for them, not with a 6 mile radius with them in the HEART of the city with mere hours to go before it detonates.


They just wanted Bruce to see the fire, see people lose hope and die in nuclear flame. That's all, hence the tv.

Hell, even Bane said after he tears apart Gotham, then Bruce can die. Of course we don't fully know if Bane was going to come back to the prison afterwords and kill him, or if he was going to stay in Gotham, while Talia escaped (she obviously was going too.) Before the bomb goes off and reveal herself to Bruce. That's the thing though, we'll never really know how it would have happened, because it didn't.

Not tear apart, when Gotham is ASHES.

I thought Bane was giving Bruce his "permission to die" because he wasn't going to be around to grant it. Basically, "after you see your city go to hell and die, then you can rot in here for the rest of your miserable life".




And if what you say is true, and Bane is surprised because Bruce is back, up and walking and in the Batman persona, then why the hell would he let a doctor in Bruce's cell and give him orders to take care of him and, wait for it . . . . HEAL BRUCE'S BACK!

 

[YoNoSe]

You can't figure out the logic of a woman with Daddy issues and her friend-boxed man slave.

 

[ZaCHw117]

How are they gonna do that though, Talia and Bane. Bruce gets back in the city with less than a day to go, less than a half a day to go!

Without Bruce or Batman reappearing, there's even less time and Talia and Bane haven't evacuated and Talia is still hidden as Miranda Tate, pretending she's going to go on trial (even though Bruce isn't around). So Talia and Bane were still ****ing around . . . and to top it all off, Gordon and his men are still trying to counter their plot WITHOUT Batman's help. They probably would have been executed, Blake too, but by that time, they only have THAT morning.

But that's not all. Nobody can leave the city, in or out, not even Talia and Bane. The city is on high alert and surrounded by the military. We see with Basard that if anyone tries to leave or enter, they'll blow the bridges sky high. Cops, military, etc. WON'T let anyone leave, not even a fellow cop and a bunch of orphan kids.


No way Talia and Bane planned to escape or reveal themselves to Bruce, especially not after Talia's crazy speech. They were gonna die in the fire. There's no possible escape route for them, not with a 6 mile radius with them in the HEART of the city with mere hours to go before it detonates.

You're forgetting about the tunnel Bane blocked off out of the city with cars. Remember Catwoman blowing it up with the bat pod? I'm sure there was more ways to get out of the blast radius than most thought.

Not tear apart, when Gotham is ASHES.

I thought Bane was giving Bruce his "permission to die" because he wasn't going to be around to grant it. Basically, "after you see your city go to hell and die, then you can rot in here for the rest of your miserable life".




And if what you say is true, and Bane is surprised because Bruce is back, up and walking and in the Batman persona, then why the hell would he let a doctor in Bruce's cell and give him orders to take care of him and, wait for it . . . . HEAL BRUCE'S BACK!

IDK, Sounded to me like he (or talia) were going to come back to kill him afterwords. After he watched Gotham be defeated and beyond saving.

But I guess that's open to personal interpretation.


Bane didn't want Bruce to die before it was all done, that's why the doctor was ordered to keep him alive. I'm sure Bane didn't think it was even possible, for Bruce to climb out of the pit and be fully recovered in 5 months.

 

[DiFabio]

You're forgetting about the tunnel Bane blocked off out of the city with cars. Remember Catwoman blowing it up with the bat pod? I'm sure there was more ways to get out of the blast radius than most thought.

. . .


That tunnel is used by Blake, Father Reilly and the orphans, it leads to the bridge and the bridges contain military and police forces around the entire perimeter of the city.


The interior of the tunnel was shot in Pittsburgh with a chase scene with Catwoman on the pod and the Bat but it was cut. The exterior is LA (cars stacked) the inside is Pittsburgh, for the pursuit inside (after Catwoman is blown the cars, later the Bat and Batpod would travel through during a chase).

First time we ever saw the Bat from spy shots.

 

[ZaCHw117]

. . .


That tunnel is used by Blake, Father Reilly and the orphans, it leads to the bridge and the bridges contain military and police forces around the entire perimeter of the city.


The interior of the tunnel was shot in Pittsburgh with a chase scene with Catwoman on the pod and the Bat but it was cut. The exterior is LA (cars stacked) the inside is Pittsburgh, for the pursuit inside (after Catwoman is blown the cars, later the Bat and Batpod would travel through during a chase).

First time we ever saw the Bat from spy shots.

You're forgetting about the tunnel Bane blocked off out of the city with cars. Remember Catwoman blowing it up with the bat pod? I'm sure there was more ways to get out of the blast radius than most thought.

................

Just because they don't show you every little detail, or let you know what every single character is thinking doesn't mean that it's not there. It might be, it might not be. We won't know because thats the path the movie takes...

 

[DiFabio]

Sigh.


Then that defeats the purpose of the city being blocked off, nobody in or out, with surrounding military and officers with itching trigger fingers patrolling the city boundaries. It also defeats the purpose of citizens scapegoating and being vigilinat trying to make sure nobody gets out of the city (because they think an ordinary citizen is watching their every movement).

Hell, we don't get the perspective of everyday, non-established citizens anyway and the city doesn't even tear itself apart other than fighting a kid over an apple or putting bad businessmen on trials.


I'm just going by the rules that the film establish, and even then, it's all ****ed up and contradictory. So you seem to think that Bane and Talia had some escape route on the very last day, at the very last minute, despite the problems they'd have with that considering the "law" they had established. I can see Bruce getting back into the city, Wayne Manor is on the outskirts of Gotham afterall, but not Talia and Bane. Especially not when they're fooling around on the DAY OF, that the bomb goes off before even knowing Bruce has returned.

I think the script and the story itself establishes and makes it clear that Talia, Bane and the LOS plan is too completely eradicate Gotham, and go with it to "fulfill Ra's Al Ghul's destiny". Bruce Wayne's punishment is that he won't be able to rescue or save his beloved city because he is incapable of escaping the pit. He'd see the destruction of the city and fail and ultimately have no reason to live, with or without Bane or Talia (whom he had no idea existed) coming back. Seeing Gotham's destruction might even be enough to kill Bruce from despair. That's what the film tells us before Bruce ever escapes. That's the plan.


Yet, as I said before (which you didn't elaborate on), Bane leaves Bruce with a doctor to take care of him? What did Bane expect. That's another example of a silly contradiction for not only the plot, but the villain's scheme.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Well I can't really tell you anymore than I have.

Yes, I think Bane or Talia would have had a plan.

Yes, I did elaborate on the doctor thing.

Yes, I think Talia would have gone to Bruce in the prison to kill him.

 

[DiFabio]

So, with only a few hours to go and counting. Talia and Bane (and I'm assuming their closest men) would have found a way out of Gotham after Talia stopped messing around going to kangaroo courts and acting like someone she was not?

A Gotham with no way in or out (other than Bruce Wayne getting in), that's surrounded by the military, police, officers, government officials, i.e. a part of the U.S. where everyone is watching and patrolling. A city that has paranoid citizens that are supposed to be vigilant and make sure that nobody, not even Bane or mercs leave the city as to not upset the uknown trigger man?


Assuming Bane and Talia somehow do this and aren't hardcore, crazy, or dedicated enough to stay with the bomb at the exact second it goes off (even though there are forces at work looking to stop the bomb before Batman arrives) to make sure everything goes as planned, they're going to travel all the way to *insert unknown location of prison pit here* just to tell Bruce that Miranda Tate was Talia after he's seen the destruction of Gotham?


That's something. Them dying with the city is way more believable, which I think is exactly what Nolan and Co. had in mind.


And I missed your last thing about the doctor. Why would Bruce die? Bane watched over him, he was clearly alive and well, just physically incapacitated. Feeding him is logical but fixing his back? Healing him? Making him able bodied?

Wut? Who would do this.


Wouldn't it have been more horrifying if, I don't know, Bane purposely paralyzed Bruce who had to spend the rest of his life looking at a screen? I mean, this is a guy, after all, that applies just the right amount of pressure with his bare fingers to kill and choke his own men.

What he did to Bruce, dislodging his back or whatever is nothing to what he COULD have done. How did Bruce risk dying from Bane's perspective?

 

[ZaCHw117]

I didn't mean Bane would have escaped, just Talia ("goodbye my friend"). I think someone like her would had have an escape route, yes.

WE WILL NEVER KNOW THOUGH.


And (like I said) I doubt bane thought Bruce would beable to climb up the pit and return to gotham.

So yes.

 

[wofford29]

Any and every arguement geared towards what their plan was goes out the window based on the simple fact that they didn't get to execute their plan based on Batman returning, and the cops being released. For all we know the original plan could have been to leave by force with their entire crew as it got closer to time. They weren't expecting resistance and they got it so their plan went out the window.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Any and every arguement geared towards what their plan was goes out the window based on the simple fact that they didn't get to execute their plan based on Batman returning, and the cops being released. For all we know the original plan could have been to leave by force with their entire crew as it got closer to time. They weren't expecting resistance and they got it so their plan went out the window.

This is what I've been trying to say.

 

[DiFabio]

For all we know the original plan could have been to leave by force with their entire crew as it got closer to time. They weren't expecting resistance and they got it so their plan went out the window.

But that's the thing, the plot is dealing with a fully primed neutron bomb with a blast radius of atleast six miles. Even without Batman or the cops, leaving is ****ed.

Even just outside the city the threat is there. Outside the city are massive convoys with everyone's eyes (the news, the government, CIA, military, police etc) on the boarders of said city.


Their "original plan" is only ruined when Batman enters the city. Bruce doesn't enter the city until there are only hours left! Before he's there, Talia is just messing around still in her not so "ordinary" citizen disguise. So if their plan is to journey to who knows where and tell Bruce (assuming it's just Talia, just Bane, or both) they're going to do that with just hours, not days, to go? Yeah, Gordon and Blake would die without Batman's help, but even then, this is just hours to go. They have a small army, three Batmobiles and HEMTT's and they're going to get past all the powers in their way? Especially with the government's fire power? That's risky to their plan, especially with all those citizens who are supposedly trying to keep everyone within the confines of the city.


I could see if they had planes or helicopters or prototype Bats, but they don't even have that, the government does with their many fighter jets. Everyone's eyes are on their movements, Bane and his army is public enemy number one, nobody is allowed in or out, even the "good guys" are following this rule. They don't even believe Blake when he tells him that Batman is back and battling Bane. Each faction has the "no one in, no one out" mentality.

If Talia, Bane, or any of the LOS can just escape, that diminishes their plans of totally leveling Gotham after years and years of failed attempts doesn't it? Nobody else thinks that the LOS were like religious nuts willing to die for the cause? I guess I misinterpreted the villains of the story then and their crazy cult following of mercs and dialogue then.

 

[wofford29]

It's nighttime when they know batman has returned, it's early morning when the cops line up. It's very possible they were planning on leaving the night before after sending Gordon to his death but then the Bat symbol went up. Point is you guys keep creating these arguments and calling them plot holes when they aren't part of the plot. The plot is a failed plan the rest is speculation. A plot hole is how Bruce got back to Gotham from the pit.