The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[DiFabio]

And if it wasn't at night when he returned and it was the morning, you guys would say that it was possible that they planned on leaving that morning. The bomb is set to go off, when? Before the afternoon? It's just like with the notion of Talia being the leader. I provide this evidence from plot to easter eggs and some of you still counter with the fact that you think Bane isn't simply her terrier and fall back on things that aren't even provided.

Less than 12 hours to go is pushing it, big time and Bane and Talia are still there in the city, fooling around. That's my point, that's all. I could see if it was a month, a week or even days before. We're talking 12 hours, tops.

I never called PLOT HOLE really. I simply stated that "plot and story wise it doesn't make any sense" to the fact that Bane is saying, "impossible, keep her close, he'll come for her". I understand, cinematically, that's for the audience to be surprised later on. At that point, Talia is simply Miranda Tate, one of Bane's innocent hostages and Bane is surprised that Batman has returned.


But after we get the plot twist and learn everything before and after, it doesn't make sense for the rest of the story. Why is Bane treating Talia like a hostage, when he, his main posse that follow him (Basard and the gang) know who she is? Why is he surprised that Batman is back? He left Bruce in a pit with a doctor whose sole orders were to take care of Bruce (and that guy wasn't just rehabilitating Bruce out of the goodness of his heart). Why would Talia sleep with Bruce if she already had the device and his company? Hope? How would they know he'd escape the pit. They were going to go visit him when they leave Gotham? Bane stated that Bruce's loss would be seeing his city die and not being able to do anything about it. Why not just tell Bruce then and there that Tate was Talia and put him in even more discomfort and despair and shatter all hope other than climbing out of the pit and miraculously saving the city?

 

[Fernandofan08]

Surely the way out was the way Bruce had to have got into Gotham;

Through the slave tunnels under wayne manor.

 

[YoNoSe]

Cool. So he came from Brooklyn.

 

[DiFabio]

Surely the way out was the way Bruce had to have got into Gotham;

Through the slave tunnels under wayne manor.

Yup, that's what I stated as well. It was on the outskirts of the city and surely he had gear back at the cave.

 

[wofford29]

And if it wasn't at night when he returned and it was the morning, you guys would say that it was possible that they planned on leaving that morning. The bomb is set to go off, when? Before the afternoon? It's just like with the notion of Talia being the leader. I provide this evidence from plot to easter eggs and some of you still counter with the fact that you think Bane isn't simply her terrier and fall back on things that aren't even provided.

It's all would of could of should of because the plot is the plot. We don't know their original plan so it doesn't matter. We go with their failed plan because it's what we get. I know Bane is more than just Talia's goon. That's established in multiple scenes. He was supposedly Dagget's "do boy" as well. How'd that turn out? Talia tells him to keep Batman alive so he can feel the heat of the city burn. What's the first thing Bane does when Talia leaves? Tells him he's going to kill him despite her request. She is the brains but she is certianly not his controller.

I never called PLOT HOLE really. I simply stated that "plot and story wise it doesn't make any sense" to the fact that Bane is saying, "impossible, keep her close, he'll come for her". I understand, cinematically, that's for the audience to be surprised later on. At that point, Talia is simply Miranda Tate, one of Bane's innocent hostages and Bane is surprised that Batman has returned.

He's saying keep her close because he's also still her protector.

Why would Talia sleep with Bruce if she already had the device and his company? Hope? How would they know he'd escape the pit. They were going to go visit him when they leave Gotham? Bane stated that Bruce's loss would be seeing his city die and not being able to do anything about it. Why not just tell Bruce then and there that Tate was Talia and put him in even more discomfort and despair and shatter all hope other than climbing out of the pit and miraculously saving the city?

She sleeps with him to provide that hope. The hope that his father's company is safe, the hope of love after Rachel (it's why Nolan has her grab Rachel's picture and ask who is this. It's a way of providing a flashback without actually flashingback), the hope of a life beyond Batman that he was looking for in TDK (he asks her to leave with him). Why provide that hope? Bane tells you in the next scene after he's broken him and takes him to the pit. "There can be no despair without hope." He's not just fighting to get back and save Gotham. He's fighting to get back so he doesn't have another Rachel on his hands.

 

[Adolfo]

It's all would of could of should of because the plot is the plot. We don't know their original plan so it doesn't matter. We go with their failed plan because it's what we get. I know Bane is more than just Talia's goon. That's established in multiple scenes. He was supposedly Dagget's "do boy" as well. How'd that turn out? Talia tells him to keep Batman alive so he can feel the heat of the city burn. What's the first thing Bane does when Talia leaves? Tells him he's going to kill him despite her request. She is the brains but she is certianly not his controller.




He's saying keep her close because he's also still her protector.




She sleeps with him to provide that hope. The hope that his father's company is safe, the hope of love after Rachel (it's why Nolan has her grab Rachel's picture and ask who is this. It's a way of providing a flashback without actually flashingback), the hope of a life beyond Batman that he was looking for in TDK (he asks her to leave with him). Why provide that hope? Bane tells you in the next scene after he's broken him and takes him to the pit. "There can be no despair without hope." He's not just fighting to get back and save Gotham. He's fighting to get back so he doesn't have another Rachel on his hands.

VERY GOOD POST!

 

[thenammagazine]

Any and every arguement geared towards what their plan was goes out the window based on the simple fact that they didn't get to execute their plan based on Batman returning, and the cops being released. For all we know the original plan could have been to leave by force with their entire crew as it got closer to time. They weren't expecting resistance and they got it so their plan went out the window.

How would they not be expecting resistance when they essentially put the National Guard at the bridges to ensure everybody stayed put?

 

[wofford29]

How would they not be expecting resistance when they essentially put the National Guard at the bridges to ensure everybody stayed put?

You mean the same national guard they kept at bay by telling them to stay put? Yeah I don't know how they'd manage that. I'm really starting to think you didn't even watch the movie.

 

[DiFabio]

I think Nam thought you meant if Talia and her men tried to escape the city. That resistance.

I think.

 

[thenammagazine]

I think Nam thought you meant if Talia and her men tried to escape the city. That resistance.

I think.

.

 

[wofford29]

I think Nam thought you meant if Talia and her men tried to escape the city. That resistance.

I think.

Regardless I was talking about resistance within the city, the rest falls under the same point that you could spend all day coming up with different scenarios of what the plan was and how they would do this or that. It doesn't change the fact that the only thing we know with certainty is what happened because their plan failed.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Team Wofford.

 

[DiFabio]

Regardless I was talking about resistance within the city, the rest falls under the same point that you could spend all day coming up with different scenarios of what the plan was and how they would do this or that. It doesn't change the fact that the only thing we know with certainty is what happened because their plot failed.

i.e. Gordon, Blake, cops and Batman. I know and get what you're saying and that's exactly what happens.


I'm just saying, what I got from the story and material was that Talia and Bane were nutjobs with an almost religious ideal and following and they were going to stay with that bomb till it detonated and they were no more.

There's conjecture on both sides of the argument, I know that. For me, I'm of the mind that they never intended to visit Bruce again going by their thinking, methods, dialogue and the fact that they were still in the city messing around with their "act" with less than 24 hours to go.

I think Bruce helplessly seeing Gotham's destruction and destroying his legacy was enough.

 

[wofford29]

I get what your points are and they are believable. All I'm saying is that there are equally believable points on the other side of the fence. And that's because all we need to know for this particular story is what was given to us. The rest will always be what about this and what about that's.

 

[K07]

I get what your points are and they are believable. All I'm saying is that there are equally believable points on the other side of the fence. And that's because all we need to know for this particular story is what was given to us. The rest will always be what about this and what about that's.

.

I think both of you have argued your points effectively and both sides could be interpreted as being correct. I'm going with wofford's argument as it clears up any confusion over the twist at the end.

Just a question out of curiosity to those who are still detracting this film: how many times have you seen it? Do you own it? If not, did you rent it? Just curious if all this stuff came to you on the initial theatrical screenings or if you are watching it more and more and finding this stuff.

 

[Khev]

He's saying keep her close because he's also still her protector.

Plus it really wouldn't do to have a superhero swoop in and carry off the mastermind of the whole operation in the name of "saving her." Even Selina accused him of waging a war to save his stuck up girlfriend.

I'm sure Bane was also looking forward to Round 2 with Bruce. By keeping Talia close to him he was ensuring himself another opportunity to personally put him down.

There's conjecture on both sides of the argument, I know that. For me, I'm of the mind that they never intended to visit Bruce again going by their thinking, methods, dialogue and the fact that they were still in the city messing around with their "act" with less than 24 hours to go.

I think Bruce helplessly seeing Gotham's destruction and destroying his legacy was enough.

And I could easily see Bane and Talia planning an escape route (hell they spent HOW long working construction on umpteen tunnels under the city) and subsequent trip to the pit to rub it in for Bruce and personally end his life after showing him that the one person he took a chance and trusted was the instigator of his city's destruction.

 

[The Ringer]

If anyone has the Bane "RISE" poster and is looking to sell hit me up. It doesn't have to be original.

 

[IrishJedi]

Shut out of any major Oscar nominations.

 

[Khev]

No shame, one of the strongest Best Picture lineups in many years.

 

[batfan08]

Damn, I jinxed it.