The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[DarkMagic]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Whatever happens in the end of this film, I don't expect the reboot to have anything to do with this series. I don't want a "soft" reboot like Superman Returns / or the Bond films where it continues the same universe / main character with a hazy history of past events in the previous films that may or may not have all happened.

I really like the Nolan Batman, but when the credits roll on TDKR, that should be the end of it. Wait a few years, and when it is rebooted, it should be someone else's fresh vision. That is what a reboot is supposed to mean anyway.

 

[K07]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Whatever happens in the end of this film, I don't expect the reboot to have anything to do with this series. I don't want a "soft" reboot like Superman Returns / or the Bond films where it continues the same universe / main character with a hazy history of past events in the previous films that may or may not have all happened.

I really like the Nolan Batman, but when the credits roll on TDKR, that should be the end of it. Wait a few years, and when it is rebooted, it should be someone else's fresh vision. That is what a reboot is supposed to mean anyway.

That's exactly what a reboot is. Nolan and WB have said this is it for this series. There will be a totally new series to follow. HOPEFULLY they don't spend a whole movie on the origin like ASM is choosing to do. We've already seen it. Just give us a fully formed Batman and introduce us to some new villains!

Before they announced a reboot, I personally hoped for a long lasting franchise with a loose continuity (what you describe as a soft reboot which Bond movies do anytime there's a new actor taking the role). I would have made a series with at least three trilogies. This would have been the early years (if TDKR wasn't jumping in time), the middle would have been the origin of Robin, and the last would be Nightwing and Old Man Batman. Perhaps a Batman Beyond situation or Batman Inc? That's what I would have liked to have seen. Maybe we'll get a good Robin trilogy or Batman Beyond/Batman Inc in the future. But obviously not linked to Nolan's story.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Whatever happens in the end of this film, I don't expect the reboot to have anything to do with this series. I don't want a "soft" reboot like Superman Returns / or the Bond films where it continues the same universe / main character with a hazy history of past events in the previous films that may or may not have all happened.

I really like the Nolan Batman, but when the credits roll on TDKR, that should be the end of it. Wait a few years, and when it is rebooted, it should be someone else's fresh vision. That is what a reboot is supposed to mean anyway.

I see this mentality as a waste. We've been investing in this Batman since Begins hit the big screen. Hell, some of us since the teaser poster of him standing on the gargoyle. To suddenly end it now, after only 3 films, and then reboot it in 2014 (date's already set), just seems like all this ____ was a wasted cash-in for WB. As much as it'd suck, honestly, I'd rather JGL take up the cowl in the new Batman and have it relate to this by the thinnest of threads, than have this closed and yet another mindless reboot of the franchise to deal with until they get bored of that and decide to do the same ____ all over again.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Realistically that has always been a weak point of the genre. There is no reason to go back to square one but that seems to be the leading thought. Superman Returns attempted the continuations and it went horribly wrong. That's why Man of Steel is back to Krypton because it seems to be the only mode of operation.

A sequel with a new creative team, actors, etc would be no problem for the Nolan series because he didn't do anything majorly disruptive like kill every single notable villain (which has been done before) but I guarantee you that when the new one starts in 2014 you'll see little boy Bruce fall into the cave and him on his first night out again.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I see this mentality as a waste. We've been investing in this Batman since Begins hit the big screen. Hell, some of us since the teaser poster of him standing on the gargoyle. To suddenly end it now, after only 3 films, and then reboot it in 2014 (date's already set), just seems like all this ____ was a wasted cash-in for WB. As much as it'd suck, honestly, I'd rather JGL take up the cowl in the new Batman and have it relate to this by the thinnest of threads, than have this closed and yet another mindless reboot of the franchise to deal with until they get bored of that and decide to do the same ____ all over again.

Sounds like the HT business model.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Realistically that has always been a weak point of the genre. There is no reason to go back to square one but that seems to be the leading thought. Superman Returns attempted the continuations and it went horribly wrong. That's why Man of Steel is back to Krypton because it seems to be the only mode of operation.

A sequel with a new creative team, actors, etc would be no problem for the Nolan series because he didn't do anything majorly disruptive like kill every single notable villain (which has been done before) but I guarantee you that when the new one starts in 2014 you'll see little boy Bruce fall into the cave and him on his first night out again.

Can't they mix things up a bit and have little boy Bruce be bit by a spider down in the cave.

 

[snoop101]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'm actually fine with the idea of JGL being Batman at the end of TDKR, whether his name is John Blake, ____ Grayson, or anything else, what matters is how it's accomplished if that indeed is what happens, and how they explain Bruce being comfortable with this guy taking up the mantle.

However, if that does happen - I'm not sure I would be ok with JGL magically becoming Bruce Wayne in a reboot. And i'm definitely not going to be happy if Reboot = John Blake is Batman and Bruce Wayne is dead/retired for good.

WHY!? That is one of the worst ideas imaginable. It's mind boggling how someone could even remotely think that sounds like a good idea.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Four words: "In Nolan They Trust".

For every person who says what he has done is bad and Nolan has screwed up the Batman mythos in major ways in his tellings despite how good, you'll find one person who says it's brilliance.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

There are a lot of directions this could go. I rather like the "Clone Wars" style animated series idea -- to fill the 8-year gap (if there is one). Lots of villains left to explore in the Nolan universe.

I think a full reboot might leave a bad taste. Batman's origin has been done, and is well known. I'd be fine with acknowledging Begins as the definitive origin, and assuming people have seen it. Do a cold start, like Burton's "Batman", with a short flashback if you must.

I wouldn't mind a "soft reboot" -- i.e. something that fits within the Nolan universe, but isn't necessarily a direct continuation thereof. It depends on how Nolan addresses the 8-year gap and the end of TDKR, though. If Wayne was explicitly retired for 8-years, and he dies at the end, there may not be any dead time in the Nolan universe to be filled.

Still, it is difficult to do a Batman Universe without Joker, Two Face or Catwoman -- and those characters are pretty locked down by Nolan.

An episodic TV show actually wouldn't work too badly for the Batman Universe -- maybe based on Gotham Central. A Gotham City based police procedural would be badass -- starting from the perspective of the cops, and slowly introducing Wayne, Batman, and the rogues through cases.

In any case, I've been thinking Karl Urban should be the next Bruce Wayne ...

He has the look, the acting chops, the action sequence technique, and the physique for the job. He's mostly a no-name character actor -- with the exception of Bones.

SnakeDoc

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

and Judge Dredd which is coming out with him as the star.

A cartoon to fill in the blanks seems like a band-aid over a gaping wound of a bad idea. 8 years between TDK and TDKR is going to be hard for me to swallow no matter how much you like this verse. It's almost presumptuous on his part but WB gave him the blank check and you got to respect his thoughts I guess that the next great batstory had to take place almost a decade after the last.

 

[Sachiel]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I like that this is a closed trilogy of films. A story arc with a beginning, middle and end. Quite possibly up there with the other great film trilogies.

Though I think they should start doing a looser continuity for the next series like the Bond films (and you could say the first 4 Bat films) and hopefully give us many more characters that have not been on film yet.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

and Judge Dredd which is coming out with him as the star.

A cartoon to fill in the blanks seems like a band-aid over a gaping wound of a bad idea. 8 years between TDK and TDKR is going to be hard for me to swallow no matter how much you like this verse. It's almost presumptuous on his part but WB gave him the blank check and you got to respect his thoughts I guess that the next great batstory had to take place almost a decade after the last.

In Nolan I trust.

Void pays me to say that when he's sleeping.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

He has the look, the acting chops, the action sequence technique, and the physique for the job. He's mostly a no-name character actor -- with the exception of Bones.

SnakeDoc

Couldn't disagree more. This was one of Bob Cane's biggest gripes and he's right. Batman has a square jaw. What's more is Karl has one of the worst "fake" American accents I've ever heard.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

lmao what's wrong with his groovy Bones' voice in Trek? That accent was funny as.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

lmao what's wrong with his groovy Bones' voice in Trek? That accent was funny as.

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

That's exactly what a reboot is. Nolan and WB have said this is it for this series. There will be a totally new series to follow. HOPEFULLY they don't spend a whole movie on the origin like ASM is choosing to do. We've already seen it. Just give us a fully formed Batman and introduce us to some new villains!

Yeah nothing wrong with that. In fact when BB came out, Nolan stated that one of his goals was to tell the story of how Bruce Wayne became Batman...something that hadn't been done on film in this level of detail up until that point. I agree, now that the origin is told on film, let's just jump in.

I see this mentality as a waste. We've been investing in this Batman since Begins hit the big screen. Hell, some of us since the teaser poster of him standing on the gargoyle. To suddenly end it now, after only 3 films, and then reboot it in 2014 (date's already set), just seems like all this ____ was a wasted cash-in for WB. As much as it'd suck, honestly, I'd rather JGL take up the cowl in the new Batman and have it relate to this by the thinnest of threads, than have this closed and yet another mindless reboot of the franchise to deal with until they get bored of that and decide to do the same ____ all over again.

That's exactly why it should be a fresh reboot. Now that Nolan and Bale are done with Batman, for the WB to put this series on life support with another director and star just to milk out a few more films in this universe would be the worst possible outcome for everyone: fans of this specific series, fans who want to see a different take, fans of the character in general, and even WB execs who are only interested in a profit.

For fans of the Nolan series:

Quit while it's ahead, end it with finality, and don't leave it open for another director to continue the story. Better to end it on purpose, on a high note, than force it to continue and drag it out and put a bad taste in everyone's mouth for the whole series. Nolan is wrapping up his arc, and no he doesn't own Batman, but for those who liked this series under Nolan, it's best to not risk someone else tainting his vision and messing it up.

For those that didn't like / felt "meh" about the Nolan series:

Rejoice! The reign of hyper-realistic-but-not-really Batman is over! Finally we'll get a director with more of a fantasy/comic-booky slant. Forcing a continuation of the Nolan-built universe, even if Nolan isn't at the helm, would just piss off those who are tired of this take on the character.

For fans of the Batman character/"brand" in general:

Let's just see something else because we all remember what happened the last time WB forced a Batman franchise to keep going when it's initial star and director bailed. Sure, they probably sold more toys and happy meals as the series limped on, but in there effort not to waste a "cash-in" the quality of the films declined, and critics and fans alike booed. Fans of Batman--in general--don't want the brand to go through that mess again.

Don't worry about a wasted cash-in for the WB. Batman on the big screen almost always puts butts in theater seats, period. The WB knows this, but they also know that putting crappy Batman on the screen, just to continue the movie series pisses people off.

The Burton Batman film franchise was decimated under Schumacher. Eight years later Nolan revives it Batman Begins does well enough at the box office to warrant a sequel. The Dark Knight is currently the highest grossing non-James-Cameron single-release movie of all time. Whatever your opinion of the subjective quality of his Bat-films, there's no denying he saved the franchise. It's not even debatable.

For the WB execs and the fanboys who want MOAR of the Nolan-verse, even if it's without Nolan:

Catwoman might as well have been speaking to Nolan in the trailer:

"You don't owe these people anymore. You've given them everything."

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Failed sale.

Saying "You like this. That's exactly why we should be done with it!" is oxymoronic. And by waste of cash, I didn't mean WB's, I meant ours. Let me use your argument against you. Given you're encouraging a reboot, why should anybody get invested in a new Batman if all that's gonna happen is yet another reboot? There's virtually no incentive. Why invest time and money in getting to like yet another rendition when all that's gonna happen is another reboot. And another. And another. Why not borrow from Marvel, since what they're doing is working in spades, and keep this Batman and build on him. Whether or not someone else wears the cowl, there's already an established history. Why throw that out the window?

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Failed sale.

Saying "You like this. That's exactly why we should be done with it!" is oxymoronic.

That's an oversimplification of my position. If you had to sum it up, it's actually: "You like this. That's exactly why we shouldn't let it turn to crap!"

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Failed sale.

Saying "You like this. That's exactly why we should be done with it!" is oxymoronic. And by waste of cash, I didn't mean WB's, I meant ours. Let me use your argument against you. Given you're encouraging a reboot, why should anybody get invested in a new Batman if all that's gonna happen is yet another reboot? There's virtually no incentive. Why invest time and money in getting to like yet another rendition when all that's gonna happen is another reboot. And another. And another. Why not borrow from Marvel, since what they're doing is working in spades, and keep this Batman and build on him. Whether or not someone else wears the cowl, there's already an established history. Why throw that out the window?

Haha, this is almost like instant messaging. It's the nature of the medium. You want to invest in a loooong ongoing Batman series that doesn't have to reboot for decades? Find your local comic shop.

Unless you are advocating for the kind of loose ongoing continuity of soft reboots that others have mentioned above that we have with the Bond films. Fine, let's have that for the NEXT series. Nolan explicitly wanted to tell a closed story from the beginning, as he has said in several interviews. If that's not what the WB wanted, and they just wanted a director to lay a foundation for an open-ended series....they should have hired someone else.

 

[isculpt]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I would say 7 or so years is plenty of Batman. Sure a reboot is coming soon, but that doesn't deter this franchise. Batman is bigger than just being a hyper realistic movie or anything. I for one am ready for a comic version after TDKR. Anything more and it's all just milking it. It's not like WB released these films in tandem within a year or so and then now want to reboot it. It's been 7 years of films. I'm okay with them rebooting it.