The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

[ZaCHw117]

Yet, it plays out much like the book. Maybe that's why its one of my favorite parts of that movie.

Makes sense in your case.

Gotta agree.

As much as I don't like these new Hobbit movies, I definitely enjoyed Desolation of Smaug over the first. The pacing was just better, even if some scenes were dragged out too long (looking at you barrel/Bombur). The only thing I liked about AUJ was the Riddles in the Dark scenes with Gollum and that sense of returning to Middle Earth in the first few minutes.

I'm hoping this last one is better, but I don't have much faith.

Even with the nostalgia of going back to middle earth, and a select few really cool scenes (riddles, the warg chase etc.) It's just a drag in comparison to the other PJ flicks. Nonetheless it is a decent fun watch, but I really don't go out of my way to watch it like DOS.

Call me a "hipster" but it might just be because DOS feels more like the original LOTR trilogy for some reason. I'm hoping BOTFA keeps that going.

I really didn't care for the singing and dancing crap. First the Dwarves while at Bilbo's and then the Goblins......I despise musicals with extreme prejudice so those scenes drove me up a wall and seemed very childish to me. I also thought the 3 trolls were just stupid to the point of clownish and while I know they are in the book as well, in the movie it just came off as goofy to me.

Agree with you on the trolls, and somewhat to an extant the singing (love the song when they're by the fire, but could do without the dinner song).

The troll scene was a huge disappointment for me too, just way too cartoonish for a movie that follows into LOTR. I was expecting a bit more. Gandalf turning them to stone is cool though.

 

[jye4ever]

See, DOS dragged for me in certain parts, especially the forced love story and some of the dragon stuff.

 

[DiFabio]

See, DOS dragged for me in certain parts, especially the forced love story and some of the dragon stuff.

The sexual innuendo between a dwarf and an elf was pretty strange. I'm sure the two of them will have a Shakespearian Romeo/Juliet, er, Anakin/Padme tragedy.

Not a fan of Fili and Kili, looking forward to their demise.

 

[The Josh]

I prefer AUJ EE over DOS Theatrical as well.

Although i'll take the weakest of the LOTR over the best of the Hobbit.

I'll give the edge to LOTR as well. No arugment here.

I really didn't care for the singing and dancing crap. First the Dwarves while at Bilbo's and then the Goblins......I despise musicals with extreme prejudice so those scenes drove me up a wall and seemed very childish to me. I also thought the 3 trolls were just stupid to the point of clownish and while I know they are in the book as well, in the movie it just came off as goofy to me.

Yet those songs are in the book or in the case of the Goblin town stuff a variation of what is in the book.

 

[The Josh]

I said it with the first film. I think lots of folks expected LOTR to just be wrapped in the cover of The Hobbit. Thankfully that's not what PJ did and they're now shading darker as they should.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I said it with the first film. I think lots of folks expected LOTR to just be wrapped in the cover of The Hobbit. Thankfully that's not what PJ did and they're now shading darker as they should.

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of glad they took a lighter route with them so far. It's just some of it is just too light for me.

 

[The Josh]

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of glad they took a lighter route with them so far. It's just some of it is just too light for me.

They should have. The Hobbit book is lighter and so the movies should be. Obviously some will say something stupid along lines of I'm easy to please or another comment in the same zip code. It's not that I just trust what I know about the Middle-earth universe and what does or doesn't work.

 

[DiFabio]

The lighter stuff doesn't really bother me, I liked the bit with the trolls because it was straight out of the book. LOTR had moments of lightheartedness too.

It's the confused hodge podge of tone and plot that bothers me about the Hobbit movies. It's like they don't know what they wanted them to be. It's an overstuffed mess that really could have benefitted from being condensed to a single story instead of a bloated, 3-part adaptation that takes from other sources to artificially expand itself. Somewhere within the three movies is one to two good movies, I'm sure. Cut out the Azog and crappy orc hunting stuff, cut out the council duking it out with proto-Sauron, get rid of the bird poop wizard, nix the Elf/Dwarf romance, get rid of Legolas and his dilemmas, etc. and I think it would be more effective. The focus should be on Bilbo, Thorin and the journey, lake town and the rivalry between elves and dwarves, nothing else. The ring should just be that, a ring, nothing more. The evil connotations that are associated with it are completely unnecessary in my opinion. Also, while I understand the reasoning behind giving Ian Mckellen more to so, I think it's completely unnecessary. In the book, he'd disappear, and it was fine. The guy comes back! It's not like there aren't three other films without Gandalf.

If the intent of Jackson and Co. was to make a lighter, child friendly flick, then there shouldn't be that many heavy elements to this thing (which there are). Is it an emotional journey that will change/break Bilbo or is it a grand fantasy adventure? So far, the movies don't seem to know. They try and be as somber as the LOTR while being silly to the point of ridiculousness and it doesn't seem to work. That and the over use of gimmicky special effects just comes off as unnatural. It's difficult not to compare it to LOTR when the Hobbit CONSTANTLY references LOTR from quotes to the inclusion of Frodo and old Bilbo. It begs itself to be juxtaposed against LOTR. If they wanted to move away and make Hobbit it's own thing, they should have.

 

[jye4ever]

I think my problems is not so much that the material is lighter, that's fine.

But Hollywood treated and allowed the creation of LOTR to be along the lines of a great epic along the lines of other great epic Hollywood production, the story was treated with deep reverence, the raw materials had a solid foundation from the start.

Hobbit comes off feeling cheap in comparison with its heavy use of green screen, cgi as the primary focus instead of being supporting in nature, the experimentation of new untested fiming technology better suited for Good Morning America, 3D at 48fps, plastic looking sets and landscapes, characters and movement not affected by gravity, padding of a short book into 3 long movies, and so on and so forth.

King Theoden's rally speech in ROTK has weight and meaning even though it was followed by a huge cgi horse charge.

Yet the rafting barrels in DOS are a ****ing criminal travesty!

Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying them, just trying to convey my feelings on this very controversial topic.

Ok, i'm ready for my Josh lecture on how much sleep he isn't losing over me.

 

[DiFabio]

The sequences with Theoden are some of the best. The Horse and rider speech in the Two Towers as he is suited up by Gamling and the Rally speech in Return of the King are powerful stuff.

He's a secondary, secondary character and yet he gets time to shine. Almost every character gets that moment in LOTR. Hobbit? Everyone is a caricature.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Hobbit comes off feeling cheap in comparison with its heavy use of green screen, cgi as the primary focus instead of being supporting in nature, the experimentation of new untested fiming technology better suited for Good Morning America, 3D at 48fps, plastic looking sets and landscapes, characters and movement not affected by gravity, padding of a short book into 3 long movies, and so on and so forth.

Completely agree, I feel like Hobbit movies could have gained so much if they stuck to real props/make up etc. instead of going the digital route.

 

[rushmore223]

I like all the appendice material being added to the story, since I only read the books themselves and not the appendices. I was not a big fan of the Trolls but I can tolerate them, nor the Goblins, but one thing that always bothered me is that Gandalf knew Bilbo had a magic ring. He didnt know it was the one ring in the book, since the backstory of the ring had not been written yet. The problem is that either way Gandalf looks kind of dumb, or easily fooled, if you keep it true to the book than Gandalf knows but never connects the dots, kind of dumb since they talk about the ring in the council meeting and Gandalf knows the Necromancer is Sauron. But Bilbo keeping it secret makes Gandalf look easily fooled in my opinion. Instead I wish that they had at least hinted that Gandalf knew, like in the book where Gandalf says... "What Bilbo says has the ring of truth to it". Then it could be reasoned that he thought the safest place for it to be might be in Bilbo's possesion, where he could keep an eye on him.

One thing that I thought Jackson handled brilliantly were the talking Spiders. I loved how Bilbo understood the spiders when he put on the ring and retained the ability when he took it off, one additional aspect of the rings power, I guess. That could rectify the speaking Eagles and Wargs from The Hobbit as well.

 

[jye4ever]

Completely agree, I feel like Hobbit movies could have gained so much if they stuck to real props/make up etc. instead of going the digital route.

Over reliance on cgi is lazy and disrespectful especially with what had come before.

 

[The Josh]

As far as the tone I find it to be exactly what it should be. Starts out lighthearted and moves darker much in the same way the book does. As far as the story I find the blending going the way I'd like to see it. Bilbo's story is about him learning there is more to him than he thought, Thorin is trying to reclaim what's his while showing signs he will fall to the same fate as his kin, and then Gandalf starting to discover what we see in LOTR. I'm glad we're getting all of that. I really am glad they added the Gandalf stuff. Sure he just disappears during the book but it's great to see them add the Appendicies stuff so we know what was going on (or an adapted version anyways). So for me as a fan of the material it works. The three movies have totally worked for me as well because it's allowed more depth and the story I feel needed that. It's not working for some but that's your problem not the movies.

In regards to the cgi used in the movie. The locations I find that they needed more than they did in LOTR. The places they go Erebor, Goblin Town, etc aren't just places you find. There are plenty of sets and real world shots in these movies but it's so well done maybe it slips by. Take a place like Lake Town. It's totally a set and super well done. I don't care about the 48fps because I can watch it old school and in old school it looks so damn good!

In the end as a fan I don't find anything cheap nor anyone a caricature. If others do that's ok.

 

[The Josh]

Gandalf never knows Bilbo has The One Ring. That has stayed true in the movie just like the book.

 

[Jrobertson]

Hey Josh is there a way to buy any of those posters?

 

[The Josh]

Hey Josh is there a way to buy any of those posters?

Not yet but I'm sure there will be.

 

[rushmore223]

Gandalf never knows Bilbo has The One Ring. That has stayed true in the movie just like the book.

I know you are the resident Tolkein expert, but if you read the part of the book after they escape Goblin town/Gollum, Gandalf clearly knows that Bilbo has a ring, he may not know it is the one ring, but he knows he posseses a magic ring of some sort. I may be paraphrasing, but Gandalf says something like "What Bilbo says rings true, it has the ring of truth to it". That was obviously Gandalf's sly way of letting Bilbo know that he is aware he has the ring.

 

[Jrobertson]

Thanks. Azog looks awesome in that armor and I noticed he now has a blade coming out of his arm.

 

[The Josh]

I know you are the resident Tolkein expert, but if you read the part of the book after they escape Goblin town/Gollum, Gandalf clearly knows that Bilbo has a ring, he may not know it is the one ring, but he knows he posseses a magic ring of some sort. I may be paraphrasing, but Gandalf says something like "What Bilbo says rings true, it has the ring of truth to it". That was obviously Gandalf's sly way of letting Bilbo know that he is aware he has the ring.

I know that. I've read the line a few times over the years. He knows Bilbo has a ring as you said Bilbo understand that he has it in the movie as well. The look he gives him before taking off tells you that he saw him slip it into his pocket.