The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[Khev]

That exchange is always a good read, thanks for posting it ajp. Proof that right there was a PT that wouldn't have contradicted anything in the OT. Keep Yoda an easily ignored "guru," have Obi-Wan hand baby Luke off to his own brother Owen (not a place that Vader himself has been to! ) and have Leia actually be capable of remembering her mother.

I had forgotten that Anakin's turn was initially a secret and that he has cutting down Jedi in the field behind enemy lines before Obi-Wan figured out what was going on. That could have been awesome (and soooo much better than him cornering a bunch of little kids!)

 

[JAWS]

You describe Yoda exactly the way Lucas envisioned him in the early 80's. He was meant to be a spiritual guru; never intended to be someone who would swing a lightsaber in combat.

Below is an exchange between George, Lawrence Kasdan, and Richard Marquand when they were making ROTJ. This conversation is documented in the Rinzler book.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn?t go out and fight anybody.

Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn?t he?

Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?

Kasdan: I understand what you?re saying, but I can?t believe it; I am in shock.

Lucas: It?s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.

Kasdan: You mean he wouldn?t be any good in a fight?

Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn?t.

Kasdan: I accept it, but I don?t like it.

Here's the extended version of the conversation in spoiler tags (because posting it without those would lead to too much scrolling down to get to the next post ). If you haven't read it, please do! It shows how different George ended up making the PT from what he had envisioned in the 80's.

Spoiler

Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.

Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?

Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke?s father into the dark side.

Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It?s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn?t go out and fight anybody.

Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn?t he?

Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?

Kasdan: I understand what you?re saying, but I can?t believe it; I am in shock.

Lucas: It?s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.

Kasdan: You mean he wouldn?t be any good in a fight?

Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn?t.

Kasdan: I accept it, but I don?t like it.

Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke?s father gets subverted by the Emperor. He gets a little weird at home and his wife begins to figure out that things are going wrong and she confides in Ben, who is his mentor. On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed?and it?s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke?s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up.

Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor?s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader?s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi.

When he goes back his wife, Mrs. Skywalker has had the kids, the twins, so she has these two little babies who are six months old or so. So everybody has to go into hiding. The Skywalker line is very strong with the Force, so Ben says, ?I think we should protect the kids, because they may be able to help us right the wrong that your husband has created in the universe.? And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can?t raise Luke himself, because he?s a wanted man. Leia and Luke?s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben?s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.

Kasdan: She does know that?

Lucas: Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her; she can say that her mother died when ?I was two years old.?

Ah Yes I remember that.. I have the book it comes from.. Probably how the idea popped in my head.

So again it proves that Older Lucas is the RJ of the PT Just wants to tell his own story and because of this he ruined Yoda in the OT. So he helps screw up and fail Anakin.. Tells him to just let go of things he cares about (such bad advice) and then goes into exile. Just a coward hiding away from all the problems of the galaxy.. Afraid to join with the Rebels because he might die. Man and people thought Luke was bad in the ST

Case Closed JAWS OUT!!!




I am so glad that I like All SW.. Warts and all

 

[Khev]

This is not the fault of the OT.. Nope they were first.. You have to follow their rules and story...

Exactly! That's one of the biggest ironies of Ducky's posts. "The PT was painted into a corner by the OT." Um it's called keeping the established continuity which the PT did NOT do a good job of anyway.

George even had a problem doing that in the OT.. Hence another reason that Jedi is basically crap because most of the inconsistancies come from that film within the OT.

Yep and once again people can claim that the ST was disjointed all they want but it still had a more concrete plan than the OT. George didn't even have a "trilogy" in mind when he made Star Wars! He initially envisioned 12 movies, then 9, then decided that "trilogy" sounded good only because he got burned out making the third one. Then he decided no it's 6 movies now um nevermind back to 9 when he sold the rights to Disney, lol.

 

[JAWS]

That exchange is always a good read, thanks for posting it ajp. Proof that right there was a PT that wouldn't have contradicted anything in the OT. Keep Yoda an easily ignored "guru," have Obi-Wan hand baby Luke off to his own brother Owen (not a place that Vader himself has been to! ) and have Leia actually be capable of remembering her mother.

I had forgotten that Anakin's turn was initially a secret and that he has cutting down Jedi in the field behind enemy lines before Obi-Wan figured out what was going on. That could have been awesome (and soooo much better than him cornering a bunch of little kids!)

And that is what is so frustrating about the PT.. Its all right there. Ive been told I don't like the PT just because it didn't meet my expectations.. But I only expected what the OT told me to expect.

I still like the PT because.. Well its SW.. But as I have been saying all along.. Its got some big ass ugly warts and screws with the OT and messes things up..

It could have and should have been so much more.. So much damn potential for a truly epic story to be told.

 

[JAWS]

Exactly! That's one of the biggest ironies of Ducky's posts. "The PT was painted into a corner by the OT." Um it's called keeping the established continuity which the PT did NOT do a good job of anyway.

​

Yeah.. You just gotta follow the story you already set up and even told us about. If George is not happy with that he should take it up with himself



[/QUOTE]​

Yep and once again people can claim that the ST was disjointed all they want but it still had a more concrete plan than the OT. George didn't even have a "trilogy" in mind when he made Star Wars! He initially envisioned 12 movies, then 9, then decided that "trilogy" sounded good only because he got burned out making the third one. Then he decided no it's 6 movies now um nevermind back to 9 when he sold the rights to Disney, lol.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if Concreate plan is the word

I think everything would have been fine if JJ made all three films. Maybe there would have been an emperor and maybe not. But the films would have flowed better.

But RJ was the Older Lucas of the PT. He wanted to tell his story.. Screw whatever came before or after.

JJ had to come in and fix those Lucas sized issues I think he did a pretty good job.

IMO TROS is just two simple steps away from being an almost perfect SW film.

1. Devote some time to the return of the Emperor.
2. Get rid of the McGuffin blade and come up with another idea to get people where they need to be to move the story along.

#2 would have allowed more time for #1.


So even with TLJ kinda sending things off the rails TROS was pretty darn close to being a truly great SW film for me. Now that is not to say that I would not make a few more changes here and there but its a damn fun movie. In the Words of Cinemawins it the most Star Warsy, Star Wars film that ever Star Warsed

 

[jye4ever]

So its settled then:

OT > ST > RO > Solo > PT

Mando > Until ObiWan/Ashoka/Cassian get made


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[JAWS]

So its settled then:

OT > ST > RO > Solo > PT

Mando > Until ObiWan/Ashoka/Cassian get made


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Seems like settled science to me

I think I might like PT better then Solo though.

 

[jye4ever]

Seems like settled science to me

I think I might like PT better then Solo though.

Fair enough I can work with that.

I?ll stick with that and don?t worry I would never betray you, you can count on that...

Deal...

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[JAWS]

Fair enough I can work with that.

I?ll stick with that and don?t worry I would never betray you, you can count on that...

Deal...

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LOL Deal!


Great pic.. Never seen that one before.

 

[jye4ever]

LOL Deal!


Great pic.. Never seen that one before.

Neither did Bill Finger lol


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[TheDucky]

It could easily be ignored. The Mandalorian could just end without ever mentioning the ST. Why double down on dumpster fire level fan fiction?

That's just what they do. They are even bashing the OT now and contextualizing it to fit the ST.

Sure I can.. Obi Wan and Yoda as a duo would have been a big help to the Rebels. I get there are a ton of Clones.. But play as soon as the Rebels came out they should have been ready to help.

I mean why is "Luke our only hope" ? Ben already handed Vader his Ass.. If luke can join up with the Rebels why not Yoda and Ben? ​

So, you wanted them to fight.... risking their lives... and leaving no one to train Luke?

Rock and a hard place here.

1. **** on the PT

or

2. **** on the OT


Because that's what this boils down to. Those things don't matter and Yoda/Kenobi would have been hunted by 500 Star Destroyers, Vader, the entire 501st, etc.... just impractical for them to fight in the Rebellion. Better off thinking they were dead and training Luke.

If Yoda is a great jedi master who teaches the ways of the force and not a "great Warrior" Ha Wars not make one great.. Then he is where he always is Doing what he always does.. Not really seen as a threat by the empire because he is not a warrior.. But the Jedi hide him anyways just in case so he can train more possible Jedi in the future. Maybe Lucas always saw him as a great warrior Jedi.. I just don't think that comes across in the OT. He is very powerful yes but not a Jedi warrior..

Have you ever thought that maybe he was... old and dying in ESB/ROTJ? And that's why he wasn't seen as this great warrior? I don't see the issue with Yoda. This again is just something being not getting what you wanted. Yoda isn't ruined because he can fight

Nah.. Just more bad writing from Lucas and "true fan service" at the expense of the story.. Chewie should have never been in the PT

Chewie should have never been in the ST either. A taxi driver for Rey and they ruined him. He does nothing. Ignores everyone. Doesn't hug Leia. Total joke.

That exchange is always a good read, thanks for posting it ajp. Proof that right there was a PT that wouldn't have contradicted anything in the OT. Keep Yoda an easily ignored "guru," have Obi-Wan hand baby Luke off to his own brother Owen (not a place that Vader himself has been to! ) and have Leia actually be capable of remembering her mother.

I had forgotten that Anakin's turn was initially a secret and that he has cutting down Jedi in the field behind enemy lines before Obi-Wan figured out what was going on. That could have been awesome (and soooo much better than him cornering a bunch of little kids!)

Ah yes, Obi-Wan's secret brother, that surely Anakin never met!

Come on, the same problems are there as it was with the PT.

Exactly! That's one of the biggest ironies of Ducky's posts. "The PT was painted into a corner by the OT." Um it's called keeping the established continuity which the PT did NOT do a good job of anyway.

PT did a better job at it than the ST. But, you can't admit the issues that plague the ST and the retcons and the ill guided plans and the nostalgic hail mary, etc...

Yep and once again people can claim that the ST was disjointed all they want but it still had a more concrete plan than the OT. George didn't even have a "trilogy" in mind when he made Star Wars! He initially envisioned 12 movies, then 9, then decided that "trilogy" sounded good only because he got burned out making the third one. Then he decided no it's 6 movies now um nevermind back to 9 when he sold the rights to Disney, lol.

Well, ST didn't even know the name of it's main character and saw a cool Hot Toy image of Palpatine and put it on the poster to bring him back. Then they forgot they never brought him back in universe so threw it in a video game.

IMO TROS is just two simple steps away from being an almost perfect SW film.

1. Devote some time to the return of the Emperor.
2. Get rid of the McGuffin blade and come up with another idea to get people where they need to be to move the story along.

#2 would have allowed more time for #1.


So even with TLJ kinda sending things off the rails TROS was pretty darn close to being a truly great SW film for me. Now that is not to say that I would not make a few more changes here and there but its a damn fun movie. In the Words of Cinemawins it the most Star Warsy, Star Wars film that ever Star Warsed

TROS is way more than two simple steps from being perfect. Geezus.

 

[a-dev]

So its settled then:

OT > ST > RO > Solo > PT

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Since when are we putting ST ahead of Rogue One?

 

[TheDucky]

Since when are we putting ST ahead of Rogue One?

It's automatically number 2 because of OT characters.

 

[jye4ever]

Since when are we putting ST ahead of Rogue One?

It?s just waiting on Khev?s final approval lol


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[Khev]

I am so glad that I like All SW.. Warts and all

Same. I can honestly say that I do enjoy the PT for what it is especially now that it has links to Mando, TROS, and the awesome TCW finale. And if I ever want to return to pure SW I have 4K77/Harmy ESB/4K83.

It's too bad that George didn't simply fill in the backstory as layed out by the ROTJ story meetings but as we often say every SW after ESB has its share of "coulda/woulda/shouldas." I'd rather enjoy each film for what they are than worry about what they aren't.

I've enjoyed aspects of the PT from the very beginning but so much of it also pissed me off especially when it seemed that they would forever be the final word on the Saga. Thank God for everything that has come since which has taken the pressure off them being anything more than fun alternatives to revisit here and there with some cool additions to the lore if I don't think too hard about their shortcomings.

 

[Khev]

Since when are we putting ST ahead of Rogue One?

It?s just waiting on Khev?s final approval lol

Having difficulty deciding my third favorite SW film between ROTJ/RO/TROS is a great problem to have.

 

[jye4ever]

Having difficulty deciding my third favorite SW film between ROTJ/RO/TROS is a great problem to have.

That is indeed a very difficult choice.

ROTJ: Weak use of half of the primary characters!

RO: Good use of all of the primary characters!

ST, Great use of all of the primary characters!

Not looking good for ROTJ is it lol


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[a-dev]

Poodoo. Maclunkey poodoo.

 

[Khev]

That is indeed a very difficult choice.

ROTJ: Weak use of half of the primary characters!

RO: Good use of all of the primary characters!

ST, Great use of all of the primary characters!

Not looking good for ROTJ is it lol

When you put it like that no it isn't.

 

[jye4ever]

Poodoo. Maclunkey poodoo.

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