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You knuckleheads have lost your damn minds.
The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)
- Thread starter Popnfresh98
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Having difficulty deciding my third favorite SW film between ROTJ/RO/TROS is a great problem to have.
That is indeed a very easy choice.
ROTJ: Great use of the primary characters!
RO: Meh use of all of the primary characters - forgettable, all dead
ST: Awful use of all of the primary characters!
Not looking good for ST is it lol
Wait.. You are doing the same thing by saying that the OT somehow is the problem by painting the PT in a corner...
Its not a rock in a hard place.. Lucas turned it into one.
With the way Lucas ended up making the story... I ask.. Why couldn't Obi Wan and Yoda fight instead of protecting Luke.. Obi Wan already beat Vader. Basically killed him. Yoda faired well against the Emperor... Why would Luke fair any better the two Jedi knights. Its not like they thought he could bring Vader to the good side to beat the Emperor.. Nope.. Luke was hopelessly outmatched when it came to the Emperor.
Like I said.. If Lucas just stayed with his original ideas.. Yoda is just a teacher.. Ben was hiding and protecting Luke from being found.. Luke is the last hope because Ben is too old to do anything... Then there is no issues.
With the way Lucas ended up making the story... I ask.. Why couldn't Obi Wan and Yoda fight instead of protecting Luke.. Obi Wan already beat Vader. Basically killed him. Yoda faired well against the Emperor... Why would Luke fair any better the two Jedi knights. Its not like they thought he could bring Vader to the good side to beat the Emperor.. Nope.. Luke was hopelessly outmatched when it came to the Emperor.
Like I said.. If Lucas just stayed with his original ideas.. Yoda is just a teacher.. Ben was hiding and protecting Luke from being found.. Luke is the last hope because Ben is too old to do anything... Then there is no issues.
They weren't training Luke though.. If not for Leia and R2 when the Hell was Ben ever going to train him? I mean Obi Wan should have been training him at a much yonger age if we follow PT logic.. The longer you wait the more chance of failure aparently.
And Why is it more impractical for them to fight then Luke? They could hide for a little bit but in a few years when the rebellion comes to being, go out and team up... They could have used them for sure. But no, Hide and let Luke fight your battles. Wait so long to train him and that way you can make sure he is really not ready to take on Vader and the Emperor.. They know the issues with Anakin being trained at a later age.. Ben waits until Luke is 20 and is basically pushed into it.. Again these are problems the PT created for the OT
And Why is it more impractical for them to fight then Luke? They could hide for a little bit but in a few years when the rebellion comes to being, go out and team up... They could have used them for sure. But no, Hide and let Luke fight your battles. Wait so long to train him and that way you can make sure he is really not ready to take on Vader and the Emperor.. They know the issues with Anakin being trained at a later age.. Ben waits until Luke is 20 and is basically pushed into it.. Again these are problems the PT created for the OT
Have you ever thought that maybe he was... old and dying in ESB/ROTJ? And that's why he wasn't seen as this great warrior? I don't see the issue with Yoda. This again is just something being not getting what you wanted. Yoda isn't ruined because he can fight
Yoda is the one who tells Luke that Wars to not make one great... That is why he is not seen as a great warrior. It sums up who he is as a character.. Wars not make one great.. Such a great line and told us in one sentence who this character was.
I am sorry.. It's not about "not getting what I wanted" That's your issue with Luke and Han in the ST.
No I was just going on what was presented in the OT and who and what they said Yoda was / is.. Even George himself said Yoda was not a fighter.. Just a teacher and that is how he was portrayed.
But Lucas decided to "RJ" it all and made Yoda a warrior... Sure Yoda was going to die in ROTJ.. But there was 23 years between ROTS and ESB for him to get off his ass and do something.. Obviously he was not waiting to train Luke because Obi Wan was doing nothing with Luke on Tatooine. If Not for R2 find Obi Wan... Well it it was only 4 years later that Yoda died so he may never have got the chance to train him.
I am sorry.. It's not about "not getting what I wanted" That's your issue with Luke and Han in the ST.
No I was just going on what was presented in the OT and who and what they said Yoda was / is.. Even George himself said Yoda was not a fighter.. Just a teacher and that is how he was portrayed.
But Lucas decided to "RJ" it all and made Yoda a warrior... Sure Yoda was going to die in ROTJ.. But there was 23 years between ROTS and ESB for him to get off his ass and do something.. Obviously he was not waiting to train Luke because Obi Wan was doing nothing with Luke on Tatooine. If Not for R2 find Obi Wan... Well it it was only 4 years later that Yoda died so he may never have got the chance to train him.
There you go deflecting from the PT to attack the ST.. this aint the ST thread anymore.. Defend the badness that is the PT
I agree that chewie sucked in TLJ and he should have hugged Leia... JJ even said that was a screw up. But Chewie is great in TFA and TROS.
My point about him being in ROTS is that now he is friends with an old Jedi master and the Jedi were only all but extinct for 20 years but Chewie cant convince Han that there is something called the Force..
No... I am guessing Chewie new nothing of the force in the OT either...
Using Chewie in ROTS was much worse... It really was just fan service.. And they way he looked in it really sucked.
Nope.. Only two steps..
For me of course.. When I say these things you are the last person I am thinking of
Have you even watched the film from beginning to end yet?
I agree it does a better job with continuity as a trilogy over the ST
But not as it related to the OT.
I will and I will enjoy it.
Wait.. You are doing the same thing by saying that the OT somehow is the problem by painting the PT in a corner...
Those are your issues with it, I was just using the OT to state that those issues came from the OT, not PT.
I don't have a problem with Kenobi/Yoda leaving. Kenobi needed to protect Luke, Yoda needed to stay alive to train Luke in case Kenobi couldn't.
What are Yoda and Kenobi supposed to do after they failed once already? They are #1 on the wanted posters. Getting into Coruscant to attack the Emperor would be suicide. I suppose they could both get to Vader, but honestly I'm not sure if they could take him. Vader can channel his anger and rage far better in the suit than he could during ROTS.
And then, if they die, Luke is screwed. He would waste away on Tatooine then join the Empire.
Yoda was both a teacher and a fighter in the PT. Nothing wrong with that imo. Can be both.
You'll be happy to hear this Jaws as it fits with our thinking on Qui-Gon and proves our point against asta
Ok, so I checked and in the book version of ROTS Yoda doesn't want Luke to be trained because he wants to trust in the living force to bring the twins to them/together and that the living force will offer all the training they need, among other things, stating that there are other ways to gain "self-discipline."
Going by this, it is assumed Qui-Gon reached out or Yoda knew that Qui-Gon's version of training would have ultimately been better (aka trust in the living force, forming attachments not all bad, allowing discipline to come through other means than training, family being seen as strength than weakness, etc...). Yoda then straight up asks Kenobi if he wants to be a father to Luke and he responds with "no, a eccentric Uncle." So, Kenobi still does not view himself as a father figure at this point.
Yoda seemed to realize the faults with the Order and wanted Luke/Leia to change that and for the foundation for the New Jedi Order.
Well, the OT could have just started with Kenobi training Luke all along... problem solved...
Create a work around to the problem then. How would you do it?
I think it goes back to trusting that Luke would turn out different and be stronger than his father knowing that the force runs strong with Skywalker family.
That is true, but...
My problems with Luke in the ST is directly related to that quote.
Yes it is. You wanted Yoda to be a teacher, you literally just said it
Luke and Han in the ST go against everything they were, destroys their characters in the OT. Yoda being able to fight doesn't compromise his core values. The PT never compromised any characters core values, the ST did.
Trying to make Lucas out to be RJ in the PT is never going to work.
I already did defend it and you didn't like what I said. What else am I supposed to do.
This is the Mando thread and you guys turned it into a PT bash fest
Han is stubborn an arrogant. Not that much of a stretch.
[/QUOTE]
Nope. Cool to see his homeworld and knowing that he saved Yoda.
Fan service is Palpatine returning. Never planned. Last minute.
As a whole I really enjoyed my last viewing of the entire Saga.
Exactly.. Other then the two classics the rest of the films are coulda/woulda/shoulda. I am cool with enjoying them for what they are.
I have had a weird relationship with the PT.
I was in shock after TPM.. I loved moments but man... I just did not know what to think.
I like the next two a lot in the theater.. Mostly because they were not TPM.
Then I end up liking TPM the best and not caring for the next to films.
Then I end up hating them all. Then I started to like them and then hated them again
And again I just can not stress how thankful I am for TROS. It really brought me back to the SW saga. This is the most time I have ever spent in a SW thread. I am thinking about SW all the time. I now enjoy the PT and TFA. I am back into TCW and now enjoying Rebels. I am listening to the Soundtracks.. Watching SW you tube videos, playing video games, buying books and statues. I am just a kid again with all this. I freaking love it.
I am happy that I enjoy everything as a whole... I can see the warts but forgive them and enjoy what is good. I really feel sorry (and I don't mean this in a condescending way) for those that can not find any enjoyment in the ST. To be able to let go of the hate and try to find some enjoyment. I know what that feels like and I know the impact it had on me for the series as a whole. I am so happy that I no longer feel that way. I am so happy that I found my way back to the PT even though I find AOTC and ROTS to be very problematic I still enjoyed them the most I ever have since the first time I saw them.
All of this is due to my enjoyment of TROS. Its really like a weight has been lifted off me.
Maybe in 10 years this film wont age well for me. But I don't care I will always be thankful for the way it made me feel in the theaters on that opening night and the way I have felt since then.
I loved talking SW with all you guys. I love hearing Ducky's take on the PT. Its been a blast. I wish we could all get together around a big camp fire and talk star wars for an entire weekend
Who knows.. Maybe in 5 years the ST can forget about their hate and give the ST another try and watch them through the eyes of those who like the films. Instead of watching negative reviews of the film watch some of the videos that point out the positives and watch the films with those in mind. I am not saying they will love the films. But perhaps with time they will see that the ST had some great characters and some great moments. I wont hold my breath.. But anything is possible
I just got done watching Beastmaster for the first time in close to 30 years and holy crap what an awesome blast from the past, lol.
It even reminded me of SW at the end because the whole movie he's prophesied from birth to one day kill the bad guy and while he does stab the bad guy with a little knife it's actually one of his pet ferrets that jumps on the guy's neck, bites him, and makes him fall into the fire pit. I literally lol'd thinking "so the ferret fulfilled the prophecy??"
Anakin = The Beastmaster
Rey = the ferret
lol
It even reminded me of SW at the end because the whole movie he's prophesied from birth to one day kill the bad guy and while he does stab the bad guy with a little knife it's actually one of his pet ferrets that jumps on the guy's neck, bites him, and makes him fall into the fire pit. I literally lol'd thinking "so the ferret fulfilled the prophecy??"
Anakin = The Beastmaster
Rey = the ferret
lol
Well it is the most PT of the OT.
They are not really my issues.. My point in all of this is that Lucas did not really have an overall plan.
So if you fail once you just quit.. They font have to run to Coruscant again.. But they can help the Rebellion against the Empire. They would have made for some great Generals. Again this is because of how Lucas wrote them in the PT had he made them more of what he had written and planed set up in the OT then no issues..
Again I don't have issues. (Well except for yoda) But Lucas RJed it all up
And then, if they die, Luke is screwed. He would waste away on Tatooine then join the Empire.
They basically sent Luke to his death anyways..
If not for Vader it was all over for Luke But it was that change that George made that made Yoda a bit of a coward. Like I said because of how Lucas chose to ignore what he set up.. When exactly was Ben supposed train Luke? When was he going to take him to see Yoda. Keep him as only a teacher and Yoda is just doing what Yoda does. Waiting to train jedi.. Make him a general and he is just hiding not caring for what is happening in the galaxy
You'll be happy to hear this Jaws as it fits with our thinking on Qui-Gon and proves our point against asta
Ok, so I checked and in the book version of ROTS Yoda doesn't want Luke to be trained because he wants to trust in the living force to bring the twins to them/together and that the living force will offer all the training they need, among other things, stating that there are other ways to gain "self-discipline."
Going by this, it is assumed Qui-Gon reached out or Yoda knew that Qui-Gon's version of training would have ultimately been better (aka trust in the living force, forming attachments not all bad, allowing discipline to come through other means than training, family being seen as strength than weakness, etc...). Yoda then straight up asks Kenobi if he wants to be a father to Luke and he responds with "no, a eccentric Uncle." So, Kenobi still does not view himself as a father figure at this point.
Look out.. Your getting close to how Rey might have been getting her training
I kinda already covered that. IMO George over complicated things with PT. With the years of training and starring the training as a child. Vader doesn't know he has kids, two of the best jedi ever just give up etc..
OT before PT.. Ben has to hide Luke because Vader knows he has a child. Ben waits for the right time to introduce Luke to the force. He has to wait till he is older because he is vulnerable as a child. However Ben dies. So he tells to go see the Jedi master that trained him. He is a teacher. Not a warrior in hiding. So Luke goes to get trained.
Let me stress this.... I don't have an issue really with the way it turned out.. I was just saying that Lucas ignored what he had set up in the OT. And if the PT had been made before the OT how would we view Obi Wan and Yoda. Would we be questioning why Ben was not training Luke from the beginning. Would we wonder why they both just gave up. I think we give it all a pass because we know the films were filmed out of order.
Force seems to run stronger in Obi Wans family since he beat vader the first time
That is true, but...
My problems with Luke in the ST is directly related to that quote.
Same can be said that if you can protect others but value your own life over others.. Like Yoda and Ben.
Yes it is. You wanted Yoda to be a teacher, you literally just said it
It was the way he was written and intended.. Simple as that. What are you missing here ?
Luke and Han were put into a situation that none of us saw coming. Han and Leia lost a child to the Dark Side. Luke lost a student to the dark side because of Manipulation by Snoke/Emperor. Thus sending everyone in a downward spiral. They were who they were until the dark even of Ben Solo going to the dark side happened. Tragedy changes people. Even so.. Han was the same guy.. Much like a couple who lose a child.. Very often the relationship does not survive. Han did the right thing and tried to save his son and bring him back.
I'm not going to cover the whole Fleeting instincts of Luke standing over a 25 year old Ben Solo and weather that is in character or not.. It works for me because IMO Luke was never perfect and in an instant he felt shame... He was manipulated by Snoke/ Emperor himself.. Because of his error with his nephew he could not go on..
Again Tragedy changes people.
As for Yoda.. Again I just go back to the original intent and how he was portrayed in the OT... There was a reason I felt that way and Lucas himself admitted that that is the way he envisioned Yoda. Because of the change Lucas made to the character he ends up betraying who he was in the OT (not a teacher) and the PT (runs and hides while people in the galaxy suffer)
Trying to make Lucas out to be RJ in the PT is never going to work.
He did what he wanted because he wanted to tell a certain kind of story regardless of the issues it created with continuity with the OT. That is RJ.
However My biggest issue with RJ was Holdo, Rose and all the dumb battle plans, boring space chase, and stupid Canto Bight scene.
All of that is much worse then anything in the entire SW saga.
You did not defend it.. You just said Chewie was worse in the ST.
This is the Mando thread and you guys turned it into a PT bash fest
Actually I have not been bashing it. I was just asking how people might view the films if they were exactly the same but filmed chronologically and pointing out how all the films including the OT did not have an overall plan. The PT actually had the best overall plan but it screwed with the OT to achieve that plan.
He would have been 14 when the clone wars were going on.. Maybe he's just stupid? That does seem like a stretch.
That home world was the worst looking planet in the entire trilogy.. And Freaking Lucas brought back the Tarzan yell. It was just an awful sequence.
That my friend was not fan service.. It was, as we all know, JJ being painted into a real corner. Plus the emperor had a major role in TROS and not a throwaway scene.
Chewie being in the PT for no real reason, having the Tarzan yell by another Wookie to harken back to Jedi.. now that is true fan service.
Again I would not have an issue with this. PT and ST are filled with fan service .. BUT... Because Han was 14 when the Clone wars was going on and Chewie had first hand knowledge of this.. Well it makes the conversation of the Falcon a bit less believable.
I wonder if Obi wan and Vader were originally written to be much older.
I think one of my old Tops Cards said that Vader was 50 at the time of Empire. So the Clone wars could have ended before Han was born.
Plus Obi Wan looked a lot older then the PT would have had him been.
It just always felt like the clone wars and the Jedi that Ben was talking about with Luke felt much longer ago then 20 years.. I wonder if it was originally supposed to be.
I always got the feeling that the Clone wars was a fight that Obi Wan and Anakin won together and then Anakin turned to the dark side.. That what i got from his story as he told it.
I just got done watching Beastmaster for the first time in close to 30 years and holy crap what an awesome blast from the past, lol.
It even reminded me of SW at the end because the whole movie he's prophesied from birth to one day kill the bad guy and while he does stab the bad guy with a little knife it's actually one of his pet ferrets that jumps on the guy's neck, bites him, and makes him fall into the fire pit. I literally lol'd thinking "so the ferret fulfilled the prophecy??"
Anakin = The Beastmaster
Rey = the ferret
lol
Tanya Roberts was my first true Movie Crush!!! Man oh man that bathing scene
jye4ever
Broke and happy
General Ducky Yamamoto infamous quote on JAWS after TROS release:
I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JAWS is bang-on correct in these posts.
TLJ Luke is a problem for me. But it's a problem that originated in TFA which in turn copied what became one of the most questionable aspects of the OT - the issue regarding Obi-wan and Yoda sitting on their arses - which in turn really became a problem only after the PT was made and we saw how badass they both could be.
When Yoda is picked up by Bail Organa in that speeder in ROTS and he says ''into exile I must go'' it was jarring as **** to me in light of everything I'd just seen. If I was a character in the movie and I'd witnessed that battle (hypothetical - I know Bail did not witness the fight) I'd be saying to Yoda ''Errrr....you must go into exile after that one evenly matched fight beeecaussse...reasons? You're clearly the best hope for defeating the Emperor'' And if I later found out that Obi-wan had defeated Anakin I'd be even more encouraged. Why the **** have you both decided to cut and run?
Anyone who has a problem with Luke in the ST should equally have a problem with Obi-wan and Yoda of the PT deciding to take themselves out of the fight.
You can't say it was so they could train Luke because they weren't even training him. They waited till Obi-wan became elderly and till Yoda became even more elderly. They waited till Luke was 20 - which was too late by PT rules - and only certain happenstance events even seemed to bring Luke to Obi-wan in any case. I don't get the impression from ANH that Luke was in regular contact with the guy he knew as Old Ben. Meanwhile the situation had gotten much worse because the Emperor had strengthened his armies, fleets and hold over the galaxy and developed the Death Star. We're supposed to believe they thought Luke was going to fare better against all of that than they could have against the early Empire? As far as they knew at the time Vader was out of the picture and there wasn't yet any planet-destroying superweapon. Seems to me they had much better odds than Luke.
And remember they were expecting Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor - if they weren't confident that they could do it - 2 jedi masters/accomplished war generals - what possible hope did they think a single farmboy-turned jedi trainee had?
And there's no indication in the OT that they were anticipating what actually happened - Luke turning Vader back to the light and Anakin killing the Emperor. Obi-wan is dismissive when Luke says there is good left in Vader and he practically blackmails him when Luke says he can't kill his father - ''then the Emperor has already won''.
Either both PT and ST are at fault or neither of them are and you just roll with it. I choose to ditch both myself. The OT standing on its own has less problems. There are still questions - but I'll take the questions over the movies that not only failed to answer those questions in a satisfying way but compounded the problems and made them glaringly worse.
TLJ Luke is a problem for me. But it's a problem that originated in TFA which in turn copied what became one of the most questionable aspects of the OT - the issue regarding Obi-wan and Yoda sitting on their arses - which in turn really became a problem only after the PT was made and we saw how badass they both could be.
When Yoda is picked up by Bail Organa in that speeder in ROTS and he says ''into exile I must go'' it was jarring as **** to me in light of everything I'd just seen. If I was a character in the movie and I'd witnessed that battle (hypothetical - I know Bail did not witness the fight) I'd be saying to Yoda ''Errrr....you must go into exile after that one evenly matched fight beeecaussse...reasons? You're clearly the best hope for defeating the Emperor'' And if I later found out that Obi-wan had defeated Anakin I'd be even more encouraged. Why the **** have you both decided to cut and run?
Anyone who has a problem with Luke in the ST should equally have a problem with Obi-wan and Yoda of the PT deciding to take themselves out of the fight.
You can't say it was so they could train Luke because they weren't even training him. They waited till Obi-wan became elderly and till Yoda became even more elderly. They waited till Luke was 20 - which was too late by PT rules - and only certain happenstance events even seemed to bring Luke to Obi-wan in any case. I don't get the impression from ANH that Luke was in regular contact with the guy he knew as Old Ben. Meanwhile the situation had gotten much worse because the Emperor had strengthened his armies, fleets and hold over the galaxy and developed the Death Star. We're supposed to believe they thought Luke was going to fare better against all of that than they could have against the early Empire? As far as they knew at the time Vader was out of the picture and there wasn't yet any planet-destroying superweapon. Seems to me they had much better odds than Luke.
And remember they were expecting Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor - if they weren't confident that they could do it - 2 jedi masters/accomplished war generals - what possible hope did they think a single farmboy-turned jedi trainee had?
And there's no indication in the OT that they were anticipating what actually happened - Luke turning Vader back to the light and Anakin killing the Emperor. Obi-wan is dismissive when Luke says there is good left in Vader and he practically blackmails him when Luke says he can't kill his father - ''then the Emperor has already won''.
Either both PT and ST are at fault or neither of them are and you just roll with it. I choose to ditch both myself. The OT standing on its own has less problems. There are still questions - but I'll take the questions over the movies that not only failed to answer those questions in a satisfying way but compounded the problems and made them glaringly worse.
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I love how everyone can more eloquently put my thoughts down on this thread
Saying that Obi Wan and Yoda being public enemy #1 is not a good excuse either.. By sending Luke into the thick of things they make him public enemy number one.. They had time to lay low and then get back into the battle.
Seems the only one they cared about was themselves and Leia... But they really only cared about her in Jedi because Ben and Yoda just found out that she was the other hope by Master George.
Thank goodness "SW is all fake" and I can just roll with the punches and choose to accept it all.
I love how everyone can more eloquently put my thoughts down on this thread
Saying that Obi Wan and Yoda being public enemy #1 is not a good excuse either.. By sending Luke into the thick of things they make him public enemy number one.. They had time to lay low and then get back into the battle.
Seems the only one they cared about was themselves and Leia... But they really only cared about her in Jedi because Ben and Yoda just found out that she was the other hope by Master George.
Thank goodness "SW is all fake" and I can just roll with the punches and choose to accept it all.
True, that's one of the flaws in the OT as a result of George's own retcon - ''that boy is our last hope'' ''no, there is another'' ''Oh yes, the one we were just trying to discourage him from rescuing'' *heads stay fixed facing straight ahead, eyes turn in eachother's direction ever so briefly, they say nothing further. Obi-wan quietly fades out. Yoda shuffles back to his hut while humming a little ditty that used to be popular with the jedi younglings*
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I can actually buy their going into exile in the immediate aftermath of the Jedi purge; with the exception of a select few like Bail Organa and Palpatine's collaborators, no one left in the Republic was clued into his being anything but the Supreme Chancellor. When the war is fought between a droid army and a now mind-controlled clone army, it was pretty easy for Palpatine to control the narrative and continue duping the people going forward. What I don't buy is Yoda and Obi-Wan staying in exile for so long. Based on how Lucas fleshed out their characters in the PT, any reasonable person would expect them to develop an underground network to identify & recruit kids with potential Force gifts before the Empire either killed them or snatched them up to be stormtroopers.
I love how everyone can more eloquently put my thoughts down on this thread
Saying that Obi Wan and Yoda being public enemy #1 is not a good excuse either.. By sending Luke into the thick of things they make him public enemy number one. They had time to lay low and then get back into the battle.
Seems the only one they cared about was themselves and Leia... But they really only cared about her in Jedi because Ben and Yoda just found out that she was the other hope by Master George.
Thank goodness "SW is all fake" and I can just roll with the punches and choose to accept it all.
This.
I can actually buy their going into exile in the immediate aftermath of the Jedi purge; with the exception of a select few like Bail Organa and Palpatine's collaborators, no one left in the Republic was clued into his being anything but the Supreme Chancellor. When the war is fought between a droid army and a now mind-controlled clone army, it was pretty easy for Palpatine to control the narrative and continue duping the people going forward. What I don't buy is Yoda and Obi-Wan staying in exile for so long. Based on how Lucas fleshed out their characters in the PT, any reasonable person would expect them to develop an underground network to identify & recruit kids with potential Force gifts before the Empire either killed them or snatched them up to be stormtroopers.
This.
I can agree with that and it doesn't even undermine anything JAWS and I were saying.
ajp4mgs
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I've spent the better part of 20 years hating how the PT recontextualized the OT as much as anyone. BUT . . . since we got what we got, it's not that hard to make sense of how things turned out with Obi-Wan and Yoda. And I wasn't aware that the Empire was rounding up Force-sensitive kids, or that such an effort was public knowledge. If that's the case, it does complicate matters. I thought Imperial stormtrooper recruiting was more similar to what we saw in Solo. But anyway . . .
All Jedi were considered public enemies because the Chancellor-turned-Emperor declared that they attacked him and were corruptly trying to take power for themselves. So, how would Yoda and Obi-Wan go around collecting kids from their families? Why would families be willing to give up their children to the declared enemy? In the past, the Jedi were hailed and glorified, so it'd be considered an honor. But after ROTS? Not the case at all. These families would be putting targets on their kids' backs. So, were Obi-Wan and Yoda supposed to steal them away? That would be a problem.
Luke and Leia were the only hope because Yoda had managed to hide their lineage and potential power (offspring of the mighty Skywalker bloodline). Palpatine and Vader didn't know about their existence after the PT canon revision. We can come up with lots of reasons why they weren't trained sooner and still make it fit with the OT.
Luke's training could've been forbidden by Owen. If he was being asked to raise a child not his own, he should get to say no to allowing that child to end up like his father. He'd consider Kenobi a part of the problem, and someone obsessed with war. And Obi-Wan would have to respect Owen's wishes with Luke. The Lars family would have every right not to want the eyes of the Empire fixed on their farm. Look what happened to that family when Kenobi's role as a general brought the Empire to their door.
Maybe Leia was initially being groomed to rise in the senate and lead an overthrow of Palpatine that way (government led vs. military uprising). Who knows? That seems plausible to me. The people of Alderaan were peaceful, and perhaps Leia was seen as someone whose Force-guided intuition would change the tide peacefully. Or maybe Leia's adopted mom refused to let Bail turn her daughter over to the Jedi out of fear for her safety in their company (since they were targeted as public enemies). It could be as simple as a husband trying to do right by his wife.
We can make this work if we want to.
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