XM Studios Brown Wolverine

[dan350zr]

I need to see the statue on it's base before making a judgements about the pose...

 

[filip629]

I need to see the statue on it's base before making a judgements about the pose...

I agree. If he's angled downward, the pose still works for me. It'll look like he's dropping downward from the roof instead of jumping off of it.

 

[El Mule]

Again with the lack luster heavy hitters. Nothing about this pose makes sense with the base. Wolverine is coming off a roof, which I love by the way, but the pose just doesn't read like that. The torso and legs read like he is jumping up off of the roof, the head looks like he is jumping either straight out from the roof or slightly down, and his arms definitely read like he is aiming down on someone. The pose has multiple personality disorder. The head sculpt is off too, and I have thought that since I looked at the initial designs. The head sculpt is totally off as of right now, and my first thought is ManBat not Wolverine. This piece can be a homerun, but the entire pose should be revisited.

I suggest you actually try to jump from a high spot (possibly not a roof, to avoid injuries and death), so that you check yourself the kinetic chain and anatomy involved.
You CAN'T jump in a straight line. You just can't, gravity doesn't allow it. Even if you're jumping DOWN from a roof, you'll always move up and ahead in the first part of the motion, then start falling down following gravity. That's how the lever of the legs works when you jump.

The pose is not just correct - it's the ONLY correct pose possible to represent the movement pattern going on. If you jump down from a roof aiming at someone below, at the beginning of the movement you'll be going up and ahead, your core will be braced (stiff/straight bust), your head will be looking down (because that's where you'll be landing) and your arms can move almost freely during the motion - so if you want to land with your claws on someone, you'd better point the claws at the target.
I suggest people try to actually mimic the poses before giving suggestions, makes thing much easier - and it's all clearly visible in the last two pics btw:

 

[Cali604]

Good post

 

[azurepred]

the only thing that bothers me about this piece so far is the head sculpt. The mouth looks huge imo.

 

[bangooface]

I know. What up with the mouth and the chin. It's like pelican.

 

[Fastball Special]

This is literally an early WIP digital rendering. Lets wait until it's more completed to start complaining.

 

[KingB]

This is literally an early WIP digital rendering. Lets wait until it's more completed to start complaining.

I don't think most of us were even complaining. Merely giving constructive criticism.

 

[Asdf]

Good points on the mouth

 

[El Mule]

I don't think most of us were even complaining. Merely giving constructive criticism.

There's nothing wrong with inputs, but there has been enough idiocy going on with the first XM Wolverine's arms hair that literally only took just a few guys to complain hard enough to prompt a change in the worse. Ergo, there is a thin line between constructive criticisim and plain straight up bulls--tting made up from thin air.
We all know who's who at this point of the game so when I see people complain about arms hair or face sculpt on an XM Wolverine and give a pass to the Brown Wolverine PF, that comes with no arms hair and pretty much the worst possible Wolverine portraits done to date, I just know they're trying to throw s--t around for the sake of it. And these people never - NEVER - end up buying the statue.
They wouldn't buy it regardless of what changes are made (case in point: all the drama about the new XM Cap's salute hand), while other people are putting their cash down for the statue, so the idea of seeing changes made on the base of a bunch of guys who cry for the sake of it ends up being detrimental to those who ACTUALLY end up buying the thing.

And mind it, I agree that his face seems to need tweaking in the chin/jaw area, but the face is the portion less visible in the pics. And I also want to see the other 1-2 head sculpts it will come with before judging, because they could be in entirely different styles. That's fine by the way, that's fair, not being convinced and point it out.
A whole other thing is to come out saying that the pose is entirely wrong because Wolverine is not propelling ahead like a damn rocket missile and because in random 2D comic book covers with forced perspectives and invented anatomies it looked different.
I would also love to hear what some people have to say about the Kotobukiya X Force Wolverine and the custom Marvel vs Capcom Wolverine that come with the same huge chin/jaw but have the Erick Sosa name slapped on them - I'd bet they would get a pass and a ton of praise, because, well, the merits of sculpts seem to be entirely ad personam nowadays.

 

[divo]

There's nothing wrong with inputs, but there has been enough idiocy going on with the first XM Wolverine's arms hair that literally only took just a few guys to complain hard enough to prompt a change in the worse. Ergo, there is a thin line between constructive criticisim and plain straight up bulls--tting made up from thin air.
We all know who's who at this point of the game so when I see people complain about arms hair or face sculpt on an XM Wolverine and give a pass to the Brown Wolverine PF, that comes with no arms hair and pretty much the worst possible Wolverine portraits done to date, I just know they're trying to throw s--t around for the sake of it. And these people never - NEVER - end up buying the statue.
They wouldn't buy it regardless of what changes are made (case in point: all the drama about the new XM Cap's salute hand), while other people are putting their cash down for the statue, so the idea of seeing changes made on the base of a bunch of guys who cry for the sake of it ends up being detrimental to those who ACTUALLY end up buying the thing.

And mind it, I agree that his face seems to need tweaking in the chin/jaw area, but the face is the portion less visible in the pics. And I also want to see the other 1-2 head sculpts it will come with before judging, because they could be in entirely different styles. That's fine by the way, that's fair, not being convinced and point it out.
A whole other thing is to come out saying that the pose is entirely wrong because Wolverine is not propelling ahead like a damn rocket missile and because in random 2D comic book covers with forced perspectives and invented anatomies it looked different.
I would also love to hear what some people have to say about the Kotobukiya X Force Wolverine and the custom Marvel vs Capcom Wolverine that come with the same huge chin/jaw but have the Erick Sosa name slapped on them - I'd bet they would get a pass and a ton of praise, because, well, the merits of sculpts seem to be entirely ad personam nowadays.

A sane insight is so refreshing on these forums, and I agree. But to be fair, the sword cuts both ways, as plenty have attacked SS older 'established' sculpts with vague, insulting, and frankly clueless input. And the worst is the mindless mob created by these, at best, short sighted 'critiques'. Some spew BS from the get go, and sadly create trolls not in the know.

 

[El Mule]

It's all true, but the main underlying difference is: Sideshow just doesn't change the statues, regardless of feedback, XM does.
There could be a thousand random trolls s--tting on everything by Sideshow and it wouldn't affect other people's purchases because Sideshow wouldn't change a thing.
There's a lot of sane and constructive criticism around XM stuff, both on the boards and on Facebook, but there's also a lot of mindless game of "let's find something to complain about because I can't afford the statue".
Case in point, the salute on the new Captain America statue. An infinite amount of complaints, then they fixed the hand for the Comic Con and people barely noticed - because those who wanted the statue, were fine either way, while almost everyone who complained wasn't going to buy the statue anyway and couldn't care less about the salute, it was just a matter of finding something wrong with it at any cost.

 

[RIDDICK]

Everything is great... except the face.
Seriously, it looks like some alien under the mask.

 

[Cali604]

There's nothing wrong with inputs, but there has been enough idiocy going on with the first XM Wolverine's arms hair that literally only took just a few guys to complain hard enough to prompt a change in the worse. Ergo, there is a thin line between constructive criticisim and plain straight up bulls--tting made up from thin air.
We all know who's who at this point of the game so when I see people complain about arms hair or face sculpt on an XM Wolverine and give a pass to the Brown Wolverine PF, that comes with no arms hair and pretty much the worst possible Wolverine portraits done to date, I just know they're trying to throw s--t around for the sake of it. And these people never - NEVER - end up buying the statue.
They wouldn't buy it regardless of what changes are made (case in point: all the drama about the new XM Cap's salute hand), while other people are putting their cash down for the statue, so the idea of seeing changes made on the base of a bunch of guys who cry for the sake of it ends up being detrimental to those who ACTUALLY end up buying the thing.

And mind it, I agree that his face seems to need tweaking in the chin/jaw area, but the face is the portion less visible in the pics. And I also want to see the other 1-2 head sculpts it will come with before judging, because they could be in entirely different styles. That's fine by the way, that's fair, not being convinced and point it out.
A whole other thing is to come out saying that the pose is entirely wrong because Wolverine is not propelling ahead like a damn rocket missile and because in random 2D comic book covers with forced perspectives and invented anatomies it looked different.
I would also love to hear what some people have to say about the Kotobukiya X Force Wolverine and the custom Marvel vs Capcom Wolverine that come with the same huge chin/jaw but have the Erick Sosa name slapped on them - I'd bet they would get a pass and a ton of praise, because, well, the merits of sculpts seem to be entirely ad personam nowadays.

Well said

 

[Spidey976]

I suggest you actually try to jump from a high spot (possibly not a roof, to avoid injuries and death), so that you check yourself the kinetic chain and anatomy involved.
You CAN'T jump in a straight line. You just can't, gravity doesn't allow it. Even if you're jumping DOWN from a roof, you'll always move up and ahead in the first part of the motion, then start falling down following gravity. That's how the lever of the legs works when you jump.

The pose is not just correct - it's the ONLY correct pose possible to represent the movement pattern going on. If you jump down from a roof aiming at someone below, at the beginning of the movement you'll be going up and ahead, your core will be braced (stiff/straight bust), your head will be looking down (because that's where you'll be landing) and your arms can move almost freely during the motion - so if you want to land with your claws on someone, you'd better point the claws at the target.
I suggest people try to actually mimic the poses before giving suggestions, makes thing much easier - and it's all clearly visible in the last two pics btw:

There's nothing wrong with inputs, but there has been enough idiocy going on with the first XM Wolverine's arms hair that literally only took just a few guys to complain hard enough to prompt a change in the worse. Ergo, there is a thin line between constructive criticisim and plain straight up bulls--tting made up from thin air.
We all know who's who at this point of the game so when I see people complain about arms hair or face sculpt on an XM Wolverine and give a pass to the Brown Wolverine PF, that comes with no arms hair and pretty much the worst possible Wolverine portraits done to date, I just know they're trying to throw s--t around for the sake of it. And these people never - NEVER - end up buying the statue.
They wouldn't buy it regardless of what changes are made (case in point: all the drama about the new XM Cap's salute hand), while other people are putting their cash down for the statue, so the idea of seeing changes made on the base of a bunch of guys who cry for the sake of it ends up being detrimental to those who ACTUALLY end up buying the thing.

And mind it, I agree that his face seems to need tweaking in the chin/jaw area, but the face is the portion less visible in the pics. And I also want to see the other 1-2 head sculpts it will come with before judging, because they could be in entirely different styles. That's fine by the way, that's fair, not being convinced and point it out.
A whole other thing is to come out saying that the pose is entirely wrong because Wolverine is not propelling ahead like a damn rocket missile and because in random 2D comic book covers with forced perspectives and invented anatomies it looked different.
I would also love to hear what some people have to say about the Kotobukiya X Force Wolverine and the custom Marvel vs Capcom Wolverine that come with the same huge chin/jaw but have the Erick Sosa name slapped on them - I'd bet they would get a pass and a ton of praise, because, well, the merits of sculpts seem to be entirely ad personam nowadays.

Firstly to suggest that this is the ONLY pose that can be used for this reaks of the same old XM apologist rhetoric that goes on and on in some of these threads, and to say that people shouldn't make comments because they might not buy a pieces is the same old crap I have come to expect from so many. It was some of those same casual observers that have caught some major issues on XM pieces, and despite the fact that I didn't buy the XM BW I sure was one of the ones who spoke up when the one set of headsculpt were totally warped in the factory, and the attention prompted the guys to go and take a second look at a piece that they initially said was fine.

Simply put I haven't bought an XM piece as of yet, because they keep missing the mark for me when it comes to the characters I desperately WANT to have in my collection. Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and a classic Hulk are the main characters that I would for the most part consider paying the massive shipping markup I would have to pay to get an XM piece to my door. Though I could be convinced if they made a kickass stellar Flash, Nightwing, Wolverine, and Captain America. The fact is though they haven't done a single one of them enough justice in my mind to make me pull that trigger. Simply put their are just better options for me out there. However, that doesn't mean I will refrain from stating my opinion on a piece especially if I think it can be brilliant and that is because that is what artists do with other artists. It is called C&C, and it is one of the most important aspects of art as art doesn't always grow well in a vacuum.

You keep bringing up the Cap salute situation. Guys complained because having the proper crisp salute change out made sense for the character. This is Captain America saluting the fallen and wounded soldiers that he served with or at least honouring them. Hence the original name for the statue "Honorary", which was later turned to "Sentinel of Liberty" based on a suggestion by a fan as XM had never heard that title... that was me. The fact is I was seriously thinking about getting that Cap, but something about all three facial sculpts is off for me, and if I could put my finger on it I would make some suggestions about that too, as I was seriously considering it, but I can't say something specifically so I haven't bothered. The fact is people who understand the characters are going to make suggestions and if you don't like that tough. At times XM and Hive aren't always on point with their depictions of these characters. Pure and simple. No one is, but one only has to look at the Joker grin the slapped on their DareDevil to see that, and the fact that Marvel DIDN'T approve that sculpt and they had to change it speaks to that.

As for the other Wolverines you threw in your argument to deflect from the real issues on XM's new Wolverine as it is.

1) I assume you know that Erick Sosa's Wolf Wolverine was commissioned to look like it came straight out of the Marvel V.S. Capcom video game and as such it is basically PERFECT as it has been designed




2) Sosa's Danger Room Wolverine has been accepted by most to be one of the BEST Wolverine masked headsculpts out there.... right in line with the Legendary Figure sculpt by Canale.

The one on this New XM piece is NO WHERE near that level, but it is a WIP so you no what I assume they will get it right eventually, but till then people are going to speak their minds as they have the RIGHT to do in an open forum as long as they are not being insulting or degrading to the artists or until Dave takes that right away. I am going to keep commenting on these pieces if you don't like it put me on ignore and move along. I will continue to offer my opinions and suggestions on every XM piece I so choose, and I will neither be insulted or upset in any way if XM doesn't take my suggestions to heart, because that what artists do. They hear suggestions, weigh them, and then make their own choices. Having been thanked by many an artist for taking the time to offer C&C, including XM by the way, I know it's value and I have no intention of stopping. However, what they do with that input is up to them and I won't care either way.

Finally, despite your continued argument that the pose on this one is the ONLY one that makes sense right now I completely disagree. This really appears to be two different statues. One from the shoulders and arms up, and one from the chest and legs down. In the end it doesn't speak to the feral nature of Wolverine and it feels disjointed with hinky made up anatomy to make it work. Firstly, I never said that Wolverine had to becoming straight off the roof, but he sure as heck shouldn't be jumping up off of it either in pose reminiscent of a school girl skipping. Wolverine is impulsive, feral, savage, and almost indestructible given his skeleton and healing factor. That is why the character DIVES, not jumps, headlong into so many different fights, and that is the character that this piece isn't capturing. As it is right now to quote a friend " the human body works leaping like the legs are portraying with the upper torso (waist up) is portraying, well that isn't how the human body works. The pose looks forced with invented anatomy because the human body dont work that way ". In the end I also have to say while it might be a good midway transition pose it isn't strong enough and needs to be far further along in the motion to be strong. This pic from How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way is perfect for that.



This piece is off and doesn't speak to the character IMHO pure and simple, and I am not the only one. Many are just to tired to bother commenting because they feel that it is a waist of time because there are so many apologists out there. I on the other hand like the good discussions and have no fear of mixing it up a bit.

 

[El Mule]

You can post as many tables you want from "How to draw comics", but they will only tell you how to DRAW them. Not to sculpt them.
These guys must have some incredible mutant superpower for their "body not working the way human bodies work", or maybe they're not jumping, they're DIVING into a wall for sport:

 

[El Mule]

And just to add, here some real life, actual examples of leaping forward kinetic chain, not thing took literally out of the a-- from a media that only have a few things in common with actual anatomies: I circled in red the posture of someone who's just taking off from a leap and you'll notice everything I just pointed out until now, that is, moving up and ahead, straight/braced torso, arms that can more or less move freely and eyes/head looking down to the point they want to land. This is the only way you leap forward with an asymmetric legs stance, period. No "XM apologists" bulls--t.
Only apology I see is coming from you with the "because artist X did this and he's the bestest artist ever period so that's fine", which seems to be your only criteria for judging something on an entirely derivative base.

 

[Spidey976]

Oh oh I can use google too.... while your pics show great shots of guys going in carefully in order to not brake their necks... that isn't the CHARACTER of Wolverine because he can't brake his neck... more like these crazy guys




And this awesome piece of art


Also before you say you can't sculpt this typw of dive... well Canale already got a great example



You just gotta get creative

 

[El Mule]

That's a free fall. Please enlighten me as to why Wolverine should be free falling on someone with his face, from a rooftop. Please tell me how can someone be diving with one foot still planted on a rooftop. Please let me know why you even think that's "right" for the character because sure as hell he doesn't fall with his face on people to kill them in the comics.
And the Hulk vs Wolverine diorama is not a dive, that's the ending portion of a jump. A dive is when your torso is closer to the ground than your feet, like the guys you posted. You know, that's how XM should sculpt Wolverine if he was already down from the rooftop and with something holding him up, like an enemy, done on ground level. But that would be the final part of the movement. They're doing the initial part.

But hey, yes, you're right. They should totally "get creative" and make a freefalling Wolverine, I'm sure that's what everyone wants.

Also: duh. Canale did what he did because it's a diorama with a whole Hulk supporting Wolverine. How exactly you're going to make a STANDALONE statue with a character in the ending portion of a jump or a in a dive without something to keep it standing, it's entirely beyond me.

 

[Spidey976]

And just to add, here some real life, actual examples of leaping forward kinetic chain, not thing took literally out of the a-- from a media that only have a few things in common with actual anatomies: I circled in red the posture of someone who's just taking off from a leap and you'll notice everything I just pointed out until now, that is, moving up and ahead, straight/braced torso, arms that can more or less move freely and eyes/head looking down to the point they want to land. This is the only way you leap forward with an asymmetric legs stance, period. No "XM apologists" bulls--t.
Only apology I see is coming from you with the "because artist X did this and he's the bestest artist ever period so that's fine", which seems to be your only criteria for judging something on an entirely derivative base.

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By the way have you noticed that in just about every pic you used the arms are swung up to generate lift??? Not parallel to the shoulders and out???