Star Wars: The Acolyte

crows said:

she could be Storm for x men. would be amazing

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Amazingly worse than Halle Berry.

She better take those piercings out before facing Magneto.

BeefEaster said:

She better take those piercings out before facing Magneto.

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like, all of those piercings

EndoSickness said:

Apparently it was #1 on D+, so no that abysmal?!

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Yes abysmal. Its viewing figures were the lowest of any Star Wars D+ show by quite a lot. The show was an utter failure.
Andor and Ahsoka had low viewing figures compared to Kenobi, BoBF and especially The Mandalorian but Acolyte was worse than even those of Andor and Ahsoka.
So bad Disney cancelled the 2nd season because they wasted 180mill on it.

ScoutingForToys said:

Yes abysmal. Its viewing figures were the lowest of any Star Wars D+ show by quite a lot. The show was an utter failure.
Andor and Ahsoka had low viewing figures compared to Kenobi, BoBF and especially The Mandalorian but Acolyte was worse than even those of Andor and Ahsoka.
So bad Disney cancelled the 2nd season because they wasted 180mill on it.

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Plus Andor gained viewership as it went, IIRC Acolyte lost viewers

EndoSickness said:

Apparently it was #1 on D+, so no that abysmal?!

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it's really cringe. it destroys the Jedi as a group. terrible dialogue. terrible episode 3

jaztermareal said:

Plus Andor gained viewership as it went, IIRC Acolyte lost viewers

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Good point. Andors viewship improved as it went on. Acolyte lost ever increasing amounts of viewers after each episode. Apart from one episode I think. The finale had appalling figures. Lowest of any Star Wars show.

That garbage Acolyte shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath as the masterpiece Gilroy gave to the fans.

Andor became an instantly respected SW series regardless of viewership numbers.

That’s right Andor a show with a minority male lead, female leads YET are fully appreciated and respected by the so-called racist and toxic Star Wars male fans, go figure!

Even if the Acolyte had HUGE viewership numbers it would still be trash!

If I had a mic on me right now I would drop it lol

Go away Headland!

Go away AmandLA!

Take KK with you!

Imagine the abbreviation if Kathleen Kennedy‘s middle name was Kaitlyn?

ScoutingForToys said:

Good point. Andors viewship improved as it went on. Acolyte lost ever increasing amounts of viewers after each episode. Apart from one episode I think. The finale had appalling figures. Lowest of any Star Wars show.

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Where are you getting the numbers that show it as “appalling”?

The last episode was ranked number 10 of original shows that week according to Nielsen ratings. Still below what Disney was hoping for but not a “appalling” number and certainly more then the “no one watched “ hyperbole people are saying.

To be fair though it is a drop from when it originally premiered.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-acolyte-ratings-viewers-biggest-disney-2024-1236028166/amp/

ScoutingForToys said:

Good point. Andors viewship improved as it went on. Acolyte lost ever increasing amounts of viewers after each episode. Apart from one episode I think. The finale had appalling figures. Lowest of any Star Wars show.

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It was only jye left and was hatewatching the last episode. Lol!

Guys.

We started an entire section so you can debate the issues with Disney and anything else in the modern era. Please put them there.

This thread is unlocked but being monitored. If you do not have access to the Dark Rooms please contact @Yoda or myself for access.

jye4ever said:

Imagine the abbreviation if Kathleen Kennedy‘s middle name was Kaitlyn?

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From a writing standpoint, the base premise for The Acolyte was actually very fertile ground. Do I think the execution was well done? No. But more Manny Jacinto and possibly Lee Jung-jae ( In this kind of "universe", you can survive being cut in half, then fall down a reactor shaft, so there's that...) would be an interesting thing. Those guys got limited help from the script, but still delivered. If anything, Acolyte probably upped Jacinto's trajectory quite a bit ( The Jason role in The Good Place was insanely hard to pull off, plus this performance, that makes him more versatile than just comedy)

On a framework level, Star Wars can use more stories like this (Just not quite like this) Mostly self contained. Isolated away from most canon and legacy characters. Dealing with tropes that the audience is already immersed with like a police procedural / Mystery Box show.

If Headland could have done a favor for the entire film industry overall, more exposure to the South Korean region ( via casting Jung-jae) and their recent output is as positive thing. They've made exponential level growth and rapid improvement in the last decade. We are talking staggering leaps forward. Just like Team USA basketball is no longer going to cakewalk to a Gold Medal at future Olympics, not like 1992's Dream Team, the rest of the developed world is catching up in terms of their respective film industries.

When demand exists, and a long standing system fails, a "surrogate system" always emerges. Always happens. Like clockwork. If you are disappointed in the current US film industry, particularly The Big Mouse, you are not the only one. But it only opens up opportunity for those leaner, hungrier and more capable. For example, look at the impact Cuaron, del Toro and Villeneuve have made in a short period of time to produce quality films.

There's "diversity" on a domestic scale. Then there's "diversity" on an international scale. The latter is the sleeping giant no one is talking about. So take heart my friend, a "surrogate" system is coming.

But again, I enjoyed what The Acolyte for what it said between the lines. It's actually, IMHO, quite subversive on multiple levels. But I realize I will be in the minority ( no pun there) on that matter with most of the fandom. When you dig into the writing, the truth is always buried in there. When I look at what Headland wrote, it's not a glowing advocate for anything she claims she's presenting and representing.

Fujita said:

Guys.

We started an entire section so you can debate the issues with Disney and anything else in the modern era. Please put them there.

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There's nothing left to say. This series was a colossal failure by every possible metric. Some of the worst dialogue, acting, and plot seen in sci-fi fantasy since the B-movies of the 1950s.

Go ahead and lock this thread and throw away the key, just like Disney will do with this series when they yank it off the platform in a month, the way they did to "Willow."

It's all garbage best left behind us and forgotten.

Otomofan said:

There's nothing left to say. This series was a colossal failure by every possible metric. Some of the worst dialogue, acting, and plot seen in sci-fi fantasy since the B-movies of the 1950s.

Go ahead and lock this thread and throw away the key, just like Disney will do with this series when they yank it off the platform in a month, the way they did to "Willow."

It's all garbage best left behind us and forgotten.

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Nah. If there's more to be said it can be said. The issue is with the political stuff. It just perpetuates more of it and we have a section for that that everyone can have access to.

Fujita said:

Guys.

We started an entire section so you can debate the issues with Disney and anything else in the modern era. Please put them there.

This thread is unlocked but being monitored. If you do not have access to the Dark Rooms please contact @Yoda or myself for access.

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For myself I should just keep out of this thread because the board, YT, articles IMO - under a lot of energetic rhetoric - have made a number of thoughtful critiques of a show that should have/could have been really intriguing.

As in, aside from the poor editing decisions (e.g. bad pacing) and lackluster writing, the supposed "grey zone" of "no clear villains" for me left a bad taste. As well as inconsistent characters.

E.g. throughout SW relationships were formed and developed for reasons. Kanaan and Ezra, Boba and Fennec, Mando and Grogu, Qui-Gon/Obi-wan and Anakin...there's natural progressions. Or, we already know why Grogu would readily accept Luke as a friend.

The whole Sol/twins thing IMO made no sense. I don't remember them Force communing, at all. Sol telling - can't even remember which twin - that he loved her didn't work, because we never saw the relationship (outside of that being pretty inappropriate) - and if he loved her, why was there no contact for years between them? Why wouldn't Sol be able to sense both twins were alive anyway? Especially if "bad twin" couldn't manage her emotions so in theory it would be like she was mentally shouting.

Then there's apparently use of the "Thread" that permanently scars the Wookie so he becomes a hermit and spends his time drawing completely unexplained graffiti. IMO that's an unpleasant concept. I don't remember any Force user driving someone mad - so why would I feel sympathy for the witches.

Think I will move on to just thinking about Skeleton Crew and Andor. Because, outside of respect for Lee Jung-jae for giving it his all, and the wasted potential of Qmir (much like, IMO, the wasted potential of Kylo which would have made a great redemption arc) ultimately for me, like Rebel Moon, there's not a lot to feel positive about.

And there's nothing to indicate publicly that the showrunner learned from her mistakes. It's not like when the Russos said they wished they had more time with Infinity War. It's a shame. Sometimes bringing in a fresh showrunner new at this kind of thing works really well, like when Favreau would bring in guest directors. This time, it didn't work. IMO Headland could learn a lot just watching the scene where Mando picks up Grogu's "ball" and then heads out to save him, code be d@&ned. Not one word and it's a perfect scene.

Fujita said:

Nah. If there's more to be said it can be said. The issue is with the political stuff. It just perpetuates more of it and we have a section for that that everyone can have access to.

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Well, at least for me, in hindsight, it's sort of like Rebel Moon, Rings of Power, and unfortunately Obi-Wan. The other things is - on the fantasy/sci fi production front, it was at least the most expensive big name production out, except Romulus.

So there's this gap waiting for Skeleton Crew, and Andor. And - RUMORS - that after those two, Disney is going to ratchet back on any SW series....

Which doesn't have to be some big conspiracy if true. It'd be common sense for a company who has to worry about stockholders to focus on an upcoming, potentially expensive film with lots of merch potential $$$$ if done right.

For those who dislike The Acolyte on it's own merits, for whatever reason, that's OK. And if they dislike it as a representation of a larger trend in modern American film and TV production, that's OK too. And if some people liked it, as I did for many of the writing landmines placed in it, that's perfectly acceptable too.

But every failure created moving forward only sets a new foothold for sleeping giants encroaching at the edges of the gates. Quality is still out there, you simply have to sift through more to find it. But in the age of streaming and instant information, it's never been a better time, and an easier time, to be someone who loves film.

Take a step back and IMHO inhale a more macro view of the progress being made. The future is likely brighter in that regard than most will believe to start.

Sassafras said:

The whole Sol/twins thing IMO made no sense.

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I do not believe it was ever intended to make sense.

The only way to write the Jedi to rebalance any conflict to truly make them in potential peril ( Look at how much power they have compared to so many others ...) is to take their "code" and make it unworkable with how the "universe" operates around them. Effectively slow death by blinded dogma. Is that always well executed? No. I'd say George Lucas screwed that up royally in the Prequel Trilogy.

You cannot have a large organization that consistently operates out of congruence to how the rest of the "universe" conducts itself and expect it to survive.

How could a functional writers' room handle this? Or at least patch it over?

1) You have to emphasize that just because someone is born with incredibly natural gifts ( Lucas absolutely dragged his lore through the mud with the entire midi-clorians debacle) , it doesn't mean they are capable or competent otherwise. Look at LeBron James. Won the genetic lottery for being a high level professional athlete. But has the common sense of an old soggy tuna sandwich. You can be naturally talented but still be an unforgivable moron. Current Star Wars just isn't willing to go there, but it should. ( And now the current casting mandates makes that impossible now. The backlash would be non stop if you rolled out certain demographics as "born ready" on paper but operate with a 10 cent level approximation of basic common sense. ) We never really get the struggles and sacrifices made to be a Jedi in the Jedi Order. If we did, if we got extensive character building coverage, the audience would be more sympathetic to the failures inherent in applying this "code"

2) You have to make "non viables" as disposable. In effect, if you are not chosen, but you have some Force ability that can one day be used to harm others or the Jedi Order, then the safest bet is to execute you. If Sol was in a position where he had to execute one twin and not the other, how does that work out? If Qui Gonn is faced with training Anakin or being forced to cut his head off, how does that play out? What about Obi Wan? His master is dead. His master's last wish is to train Anakin. He wants to honor that, but he knows Anakin is a walking ticking time bomb, but will he go so far as to kill him...That's the most simple "patch over" you'll get from a writers' room looking to make the situation efficient and compact in the storytelling to build natural conflict.

But Lucas didn't have the guts to go there ( Hard to sell all those toys that way. ) And The Big Mouse will never ever go there. (They'll push a lot of ugly stuff forward, but never a concept actually in line with what has happened across recorded human history) The benefit of a legacy IP, a storied one, is you have a built in audience. A lot of the heavy lifting in world building is done for you. The problem is it immediately corners you from a writing standpoint. Did Headland faceplant here? Yes. But, to be fair, she had to operate starting from a corner. She chose that, but I won't pretend it's easy.

Someone is going to ask me now, to clarify that what I'm saying is one of the most efficient ways to fix a lot of the current Star Wars lore problems is to have children, albeit marginally Force sensitive ones, being executed on screen.

Yes. That bother anyone? That's the irony of the entire matter, good writing in film and TV is supposed to bother you on multiple levels. Sometimes even offend you. What it can't do is bore you.

Kebron said:

Where are you getting the numbers that show it as “appalling”?

The last episode was ranked number 10 of original shows that week according to Nielsen ratings. Still below what Disney was hoping for but not a “appalling” number and certainly more then the “no one watched “ hyperbole people are saying.

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What was the budget of those other shows?