12" Faramir is next!!!

[Darth Rage]

Sure, why not? He got rid of Gollum when he though Frodo was his friend. You may think he "would" have but that's an assumption. My argument for Faramir's character being critical stands.

So you seriously believe that if Frodo and Sam weren't captured by Faramir that Gollum(as Smeagol) would have marched into Mordor with Frodo and actually helped him / let him destroy the ring? I just don't buy it. The ring had too much pull over Gollum/Smeagol for way too long a time for him to ever let it be destroyed. As Smeagol, while he was with Frodo he didn't have the ring in his posession, but it was close enough that he could rest easy for a time that it was safe. I still find your argument lacking, regardless of whether or not you take my opinion to be pure speculation. Truth is PJ could have written several other catalysts to turn Smeagol back to Gollum again without using Faramir for this.

 

[The Josh]

So you seriously believe that if Frodo and Sam weren't captured by Faramir that Gollum(as Smeagol) would have marched into Mordor with Frodo and actually helped him / let him destroy the ring? I just don't buy it. The ring had too much pull over Gollum/Smeagol for way too long a time for him to ever let it be destroyed. As Smeagol, while he was with Frodo he didn't have the ring in his posession, but it was close enough that he could rest easy for a time that it was safe. I still find your argument lacking, regardless of whether or not you take my opinion to be pure speculation. Truth is PJ could have written several other catalysts to turn Smeagol back to Gollum again without using Faramir for this.

I agree with Fritz. I think yes that Smeagol could have turned back without Faramir but I don't think it would have happened. He was recovering from that part of his life and appeared to be liking the fact he was doing so. He was trusting of what was going on and trust of Frodo & Sam which appeared like everything else to be geniune. That was until Frodo had to trick him with the help of Faramir. As far as PJ writing someone else in who would he have used to couple with Eowyn? Anybody else simply wouldn't make sense and would be as odd as when Frodo sends Sam away. That argument is pretty lacking IMO. Faramir is just too important to the story to be written out unlike Tom Bombadil.

 

[Darth Rage]

As far as PJ writing someone else in who would he have used to couple with Eowyn? Anybody else simply wouldn't make sense and would be as odd as when Frodo sends Sam away. That argument is pretty lacking IMO. Faramir is just too important to the story to be written out unlike Tom Bombadil.

Well in the original release no one couples with Eowyn, so talk about arguments that are pretty lacking.

But that's got nothing to do with my point. My point was that PJ took such liberties with the books already he could have used someone other than Faramir, or no one at all to have Smeagol switch back to Gollum. The pull of the ring in my opinion would have been sufficient. Maybe the casual movie goer who is not familiar with the books or weren't paying attention the prologue of FOTR wouldn't agree or get it, but I think most would.

I never said Faramir could have or should have been left out of the movies. My original point directed towards Fritz's argument is that he is not essential to changing Smeagol back to Gollum. That's it. It could have been done in other ways.

What other ways you ask? Well I am neither a writer or director so off the top of my head I am not going to offer up another method. I am sure that PJ and company could have devised something though.

 

[Gruff Old Bear]

Has anybody figured out what that clue about "fool's hope" meant?

 

[jedi80]

Great!! About time we got a Faramir!!

 

[The Josh]

Well in the original release no one couples with Eowyn, so talk about arguments that are pretty lacking.

Well, yeah but the EE are the defenitive versions.

But that's got nothing to do with my point. My point was that PJ took such liberties with the books already he could have used someone other than Faramir, or no one at all to have Smeagol switch back to Gollum. The pull of the ring in my opinion would have been sufficient. Maybe the casual movie goer who is not familiar with the books or weren't paying attention the prologue of FOTR wouldn't agree or get it, but I think most would.

PJ changed a few things and some of them for the better but I don't think he took that many liberties. Changing Faramir would have been more than just a changing something that's dropping someone vital. While not Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo, etc he is vital to the story and the feel of the story. Having read the books countless times now over the last few years that's a change that couldn't be made.

 

[elwood49]

Has anybody figured out what that clue about "fool's hope" meant?

I haven't listened to the podcast, but I take that to mean there was always a fool's hope about Faramir being included in the Weta line.

 

[ffl1940]

if it's an armored Faramir I'll pick up two, one for display and one to use on a bash of another soldier. If he's only wearing cloth I'll pass.

 

[dasciutto]

So this means that Sideshow has started the TTT 12" line ???

 

[The Josh]

I haven't listened to the podcast, but I take that to mean there was always a fool's hope about Faramir being included in the Weta line.

Gandalf said the "fools hope line". So I would guess it might be referring to him. SS has nothing to do with the Weta now so I doubt it's that.

 

[LOTRFan]

Gandalf said the "fools hope line". So I would guess it might be referring to him. SS has nothing to do with the Weta now so I doubt it's that.

No, more so that it was a fool's hope that he would be made.

 

[CAhobbit]

PJ changed a few things and some of them for the better but I don't think he took that many liberties.

I see you didn't watch Two Towers or Return of the King at all then.

PJ and co. took many liberties with the adaptations. Faramir being one of that really upset people...though there are other plot aspects and characters that were changed (some for the better...and some for the worse). In the end I felt the movies stuck well enough to the overall feel/message of the published works. Plus in order to really enjoy the films one had to totally detach from the books and treat the films as different entities and try not to compare too much. I finally realized to do that after my first viewing of TT when I came out of seeing it with a frown on my face.

 

[The Josh]

No, more so that it was a fool's hope that he would be made.

That too. It's what I had ventured to guess it but I was tossing out a possible scenario.

I see you didn't watch Two Towers or Return of the King at all then.

Uh I've probably seen each film like 100 times. Not to mention reading the books over and over as well so.......

PJ and co. took many liberties with the adaptations. Faramir being one of that really upset people...though there are other plot aspects and characters that were changed (some for the better...and some for the worse). In the end I felt the movies stuck well enough to the overall feel/message of the published works. Plus in order to really enjoy the films one had to totally detach from the books and treat the films as different entities and try not to compare too much. I finally realized to do that after my first viewing of TT when I came out of seeing it with a frown on my face.

I didn't say they didn't make some changes. Did you read that or does reading come hard to you? I tie them together just fine and am ok with it all. For the most part. I understand some of the changes and accept what was done. Some of them had to be made in order to not bore, confuse, etc the regular movie goer whose attention span is smaller than a 30 second commercial.

 

[Radagaster]

2 points:

1) Faramir was critical to the story purely from Denethor's standpoint. Had Faramir not seemingly died against the orcs, there would be "Pyre of Denethor", and Denethor would not have gone out of his mind. (How would YOU like to lose the last of your lineage!!!).
2) If Denethor does not die, there would have been a LONG issue getting Aragorn to finally be the King of Gondor.

All the other Faramir storylines are not as critical, though adds to the story:
1) Faramir captures Frodo and lets the ring go. Something he could do, but his brother could not. This thread brings back Frodo's faith in Boromir's line, not to mention humans.
2) Faramir and Eowyn at HoH.
3) Faramir holding the fort at Ithilien.

Anyway, as to why Sideshow released Faramir before anyone else, here's my thoughts:
1) SS already hinted that sculpting a beard for GTG takes time to research.
2) Faramir being human size is easier to make compared to the other Fellowship sizes (dwarf and hobbits).
3) I feel SS wants to finish out the good guys before venturing out to the bad ones (don't hold me to this one).
4) Sculpting a female can be the challenge with both the hair and body. SS may already have the body made, but since most LOTR females have long hair --- this is something new for them to research. Are there any 12" long-haired females we've seen?

 

[The Josh]

Good Stuff Rad. I agree with ya for the most part.

 

[CAhobbit]

That too. It's what I had ventured to guess it but I was tossing out a possible scenario.



Uh I've probably seen each film like 100 times. Not to mention reading the books over and over as well so.......



I didn't say they didn't make some changes. Did you read that or does reading come hard to you? I tie them together just fine and am ok with it all. For the most part. I understand some of the changes and accept what was done. Some of them had to be made in order to not bore, confuse, etc the regular movie goer whose attention span is smaller than a 30 second commercial.

Wow, meow. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited at all and I apologize if I came across that way...just giving my opinion and you come back with your snide remarks. What's that about?

And no you didn't say 'they didn't make changes' where are YOU reading that I wrote that you said that? You mentioned they took SOME liberties...MY OPINION was that they took ALOT of liberties.

Wow, I can't believe you would just come lashing back at me like that when all I was giving was my opinion AND just making a little joke (hence the laughing smilie) about seeing the films.

 

[Captain Faramir]

Well if any of you are familiar with my regular comments here, you know that I've been pulling for Faramir since I joined these boards. He is my single most wanted LOTR figure, and my favorite fictional character in all literature.

So why is so important?

First of all, Faramir is essential to the story's theme of power. As each character confronts the ring in a different way, they illustrate an element of human nature, for good or for ill. Faramir is (and I speak with reverential admiration for him) the embodiment of INTEGRITY. In other words, he stays true to the morality he has embraced, and because he understands, and believes in, his principles, the ring is not a burden to him, despite the fact that it is a temptation. Faramir is also one of the most important aids Frodo receives on his journey; just as Elrond told him when he said he would find friends in unexpected places. His trust and friendship were even more valuable to Frodo and Sam than were the supplies he gave them. Not only that, he is the most important and beloved leader in Minas Tireth until Gandalf arrives. As if this weren't enough, Faramir is a literary foil to Aragorn, highlighiting his strenghts and reiterating Strider's best qualities.

So your'e thinking, dude, Captain Aldeggon sure talks a lot. Well I just wanna make sure Faramir is justified. I was deeply wounded when I saw him on screen looking so perfect but construed so poorly. The EE have helped redeem him for the most part, but it never captures the beauty of his character in the book. I think I like him best because, though he is physically stong, his most important strength is that he is gentle--even when, in today's society, that's viewed as a sign of being weak. Boromir, on the other hand, was more violent in nature--and it cost him. I guess he reminds me of myself in a lot of ways. He realizes the better, and truer, nature of humanity, and proves that people can control their feelings and desires even in the face of contempt, mistrust, and even destruction. And you wonder why I love him so much?

OK, I'm done! go get some water or something, you must be tired.

 

[The Josh]

Wow, meow. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited at all and I apologize if I came across that way...just giving my opinion and you come back with your snide remarks. What's that about?

The way the comment was worded with the smilie made it come across like you where trying to be a smart ass.

And no you didn't say 'they didn't make changes' where are YOU reading that I wrote that you said that? You mentioned they took SOME liberties...MY OPINION was that they took ALOT of liberties.

The way I took one of the paragraphs was that you took it I meant they made no changes.

Wow, I can't believe you would just come lashing back at me like that when all I was giving was my opinion AND just making a little joke (hence the laughing smilie) about seeing the films.

It was more than just your opinion or that's how I took it anyways.

 

[Fritz]

So you seriously believe that if Frodo and Sam weren't captured by Faramir that Gollum(as Smeagol) would have marched into Mordor with Frodo and actually helped him / let him destroy the ring? I just don't buy it...

Hey, I can't be held responsible for what may have happened. And if that scenario was true then Gollum would have gotten the ring back, it doesn't get destroyed and Sauron wins again. Point being, Faramir was a key character and a damned fine choice for a 12" figure.

 

[Fritz]

...2) If Denethor does not die, there would have been a LONG issue getting Aragorn to finally be the King of Gondor...

I don't agree. Aragorn could have simply marched up to him and severed his head just like the Mouth of Sauron.