Arnold or his Characters

[Khev]

If I didn't allow likeness of people who've sinned in my house then I wouldn't own any figures or movies. That said there are a few crimes that carry a stigma that would permanently overshadow any appeal I might otherwise have for a person or his/her body of work.

Murder, rape, pedophilia/child abuse. If any of those are brought to mind by an individual's actions then they have no place in my home. Arnold's recent story is definitely a sad one but since I'm not a member of his immediate family it doesn't overshadow the positive attributes I associate with him.

 

[Marcus Wright]

Arnold's character (pun intended) has come under fire lately. Is it OK to separate how you feel about the character from how you feel about the man?

I can. I feel he has nothing to do with the creation of these characters. He is an actor. I am a fan of the films more than the person and that is how I justify keeping his figures.

Any other thoughts?

I am a much bigger fan of Arnold himself as a peson rather than his characters. (although they are super good and unforgettable).

It is a fact that he is a genious who achieved fame, power and wealth and also turned out to be very charismatic. He excelled and was the top sportsman in the world, the most famous and most paid actor for a while, and also managed to have on of the most ifluential political seats in the world.

His achievments speak for themselves.

 

[herzograven]

I am a much bigger fan of Arnold himself as a peson rather than his characters. (although they are super good and unforgettable).

It is a fact that he is a genious who achieved fame, power and wealth and also turned out to be very charismatic. He excelled and was the top sportsman in the world, the most famous and most paid actor for a while, and also managed to have on of the most ifluential political seats in the world.

His achievments speak for themselves.

no one is perfect, and generally people who claim to be are the least!

schwarzenegger came into the spot light with a check list, and achieved everything and more on that list, you can't tell me that was just blind luck! there has to be a certain amount of determination, skill, charisma and intelligence behind it - i have always admired him for his achievements, if i can accomplish 10% of what he has, i'd be lucky - bottom line, what someone does in their personal/sex life is entirely their OWN DAMN BUSINESS - move on people, and if you wanna throw away his figures/statues, i'm sure there are plenty of people who will buy them, myself included hehe

 

[herzograven]

YouTube - ‪Schwarzenegger Screams in Kindergarten Cop‬‏

this made me and the wife

awesome

 

[sprig0701]

Arnold made bad personal decisions. Big deal. I can't stand when people get all high and mighty and criticize another human beings personal life. He didn't kill anyone or molest a child, so viva-la-Arnold!!

And I appreciate his having the balls to sign the execution order for Tookie Williams. The guy was a piece of garbage that never showed any remorse for his actions clean till the very end, and most governors wouldn't have had the guts to do it. GO ARNOLD!!!


Now bring on T5!!!!!

 

[devilof76]

Uhhhh....FAIL

Never said or implied that Tookie Williams wasn't found guilty. Just didnt and still don't support capital execution.

I never said you did. What I said was meant to imply that believing he had a right to live after having taken those lives, devalues the lives of his victims to such an extent that he may as well have got off as easy as Simpson.

If you refuse to take a murderer's life, you have essentially absolved him of the crime.

 

[thenammagazine]

I don't get all the Benoit hate either. The dude went crazy as a result of performing a flying headbutt off of the top rope and everybody always applauded him and cheered him on for it. Now, when suddenly this causes dementia in his brain and results in him killing his family there's hate? I think the self loathing needs to be redirected.

 

[Lee in MI]

I never said you did. What I said was meant to imply that believing he had a right to live after having taken those lives, devalues the lives of his victims...

Who has a right to decide who lives or dies? Not him...and certainly I don't think the very imperfect State does. As u implied, the State screwed the pooch with the Simpson case but u sound so sure they got it right on this one?!?!

If you refuse to take a murderer's life, you have essentially absolved him of the crime.

Wow! That's a leap!!!!!

Tell me, do u belong to the Muhajadeem? Lol!

 

[greygoose]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSD3PTyjZ0&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪Funniest Arnold quotes of all time‬‏[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-flQmtL_IQ&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪Best comeback ever‬‏[/ame]

 

[Lee in MI]

Arnold made bad personal decisions. Big deal. I can't stand when people get all high and mighty and criticize another human beings personal life. He didn't kill anyone or molest a child, so viva-la-Arnold!!

And I appreciate his having the balls to sign the execution order for Tookie Williams. The guy was a piece of garbage that never showed any remorse for his actions clean till the very end, and most governors wouldn't have had the guts to do it. GO ARNOLD!!!


Now bring on T5!!!!!

Talk about getting all high and mighty!!

The guy was convicted of the crimes but NEVER admitted to actually ordering them or committing them. So I respect TW more for NOT showing remorse since he contended to the end that he was innocent.

Now that takes balls...especially facing uncertain death.

I bet most folks would fold like a wet dollar bill just in an attempt to save their arse!

 

[thenammagazine]

Talk about getting all high and mighty!!

The guy was convicted of the crimes but NEVER admitted to actually ordering them or committing them. So I respect TW more for NOT showing remorse since he contended to the end that he was innocent.

Now that takes balls...especially facing uncertain death.

I bet most folks would fold like a wet dollar bill just in an attempt to save their arse!

I think they need to take you and your family and move you back in time, into LA, into the very heart of gangland, during the peak of the Crips/Bloods BS and see if that maybe doesn't change your extremely naive perspective.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't get all the Benoit hate either. The dude went crazy as a result of performing a flying headbutt off of the top rope and everybody always applauded him and cheered him on for it. Now, when suddenly this causes dementia in his brain and results in him killing his family there's hate? I think the self loathing needs to be redirected.

I don't understand your argument here. First off, I haven't seen any real hate directed toward Benoit. The argument has been (from my perspective) that his actions were abhorrent and that most folks would not want Benoit collectibles on their display shelf. Whatever caused his actions (free will, a mental disorder, a neurological disorder, some combination of those things) doesn't take away what he did or make it acceptable.

Are you still happy to watch Benoit matches and to collect his action figures? Would you be comfortable with him on your shelf? Does blaming his neurological injuries somehow allow you to dismiss what he did?

And where exactly does self-loathing come in when someone doesn't want to celebrate the actions of a person who committed heinous murder and suicide? That makes zero sense to me.

 

[greygoose]

Is this thread about Arnold Schwarzenegger or Chris Benoit?

 

[sprig0701]

Talk about getting all high and mighty!!

The guy was convicted of the crimes but NEVER admitted to actually ordering them or committing them. So I respect TW more for NOT showing remorse since he contended to the end that he was innocent.

Now that takes balls...especially facing uncertain death.

I bet most folks would fold like a wet dollar bill just in an attempt to save their arse!

Oh, my apologies for bringing shame to the Tookie Williams memorial you have in your house. Should we respect this guy for writing kids books about how it's bad being in gangs? NO! He was a piece of garbage when he co-found the crips, he was a piece of garbage when he was in prison causing headaches for the correctional staff, with his high and mighty attitude and strong crips influence to manipulate young kids into his devious ways still, and he remained a piece of garbage even when the person sticking the needle in his arm made a mistake and he spouted out "do you even know what you're doing?" And once again, I applaud Arnold for having the balls to see past his lies and stand against his supporters and sign the warrant, where most states never would have.


I'm not high and mighty, I just have no room in my heart for persons who corrupt the morals of children for their own profit or pleasure, which is exactly what those gangs do.

 

[thenammagazine]

I don't understand your argument here. First off, I haven't seen any real hate directed toward Benoit. The argument has been (from my perspective) that his actions were abhorrent and that most folks would not want Benoit collectibles on their display shelf. Whatever caused his actions (free will, a mental disorder, a neurological disorder, some combination of those things) doesn't take away what he did or make it acceptable.

Are you still happy to watch Benoit matches and to collect his action figures? Would you be comfortable with him on your shelf? Does blaming his neurological injuries somehow allow you to dismiss what he did?

And where exactly does self-loathing come in when someone doesn't want to celebrate the actions of a person who committed heinous murder and suicide? That makes zero sense to me.

I've seen it both here and in the Sperminator thread. For all intents and purposes, Benoit had a mental disability - that being there was so much damage to his brain that it caused dementia. Unfortunately it wasn't caught in time and a huge tragic accident resulted. I sincerely doubt if he'd been in his right mind and in full control of his mental capacity, what happened never would have. Does that make what happened okay? Absolutely not. Should it tarnish his reputation in the WWE/WWF/WCW so much that fans rip down posters, burn figures and expect him to be obliterated from the history of the business? Again, absolutely not. These are the same people (the "biz" included) who cheered him on with the "thumb across throat" when executing the same move that brought on his brain damage - hence the bit of guilt/self loathing. Which would also explain the eccentric backlash the incident brought. The WWE was all to quick to respond to fans as well for the sake of losing the bad press.

And yeah, I still have a few Benoit figures in storage. I haven't changed my opinion about The Wolverine, nor would I consider getting rid of them because of what happened.

 

[sprig0701]

Is this thread about Arnold Schwarzenegger or Chris Benoit?

I can see how the discussion has strayed to Tookie Williams, seeing as how he was the gover-nator who signed his death warrant (but yet to understand how his supposed love-child situation has anything to do with that) so there is a direct link there, but how did it get so far astray that people are discussing Benoit???

 

[thenammagazine]

I can see how the discussion has strayed to Tookie Williams, seeing as how he was the gover-nator who signed his death warrant (but yet to understand how his supposed love-child situation has anything to do with that) so there is a direct link there, but how did it get so far astray that people are discussing Benoit???

Do a search in the thread for Benoit. He comes up more than 5 times in 10 pages.

 

[karamazov80]

The question was about whether you can always separate the public and the private personae. Benoit is an extreme case of a celebrity doing something that makes the celebration of his character difficult.

To Nam's post, as you elaborate it, there may be some unconscious guilt regarding the fans' role in affecting what Benoit did. But at a certain point actors who commit vile actions must accept the lion's share of the blame IMO. Benoit suffered brain trauma, juiced heavily, lived the stress-filled life of a pro wrestler, and may have had a child with some form of developmental disability that exacerbated that stress (I'm not sure I ever heard what the story was there). I'm sure there were other factors. But he did what he did, and that did change my opinion of him, even if he was not fully in control of himself at the time. I still have his DVD, but I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it since, and I doubt I will again. I don't hate him, though. I don't know enough about the man or his situation to be able to even form such an opinion.

 

[thenammagazine]

The question was about whether you can always separate the public and the private personae. Benoit is an extreme case of a celebrity doing something that makes the celebration of his character difficult.

To Nam's post, as you elaborate it, there may be some unconscious guilt regarding the fans' role in affecting what Benoit did. But at a certain point actors who commit vile actions must accept the lion's share of the blame IMO. Benoit suffered brain trauma, juiced heavily, lived the stress-filled life of a pro wrestler, and may have had a child with some form of developmental disability that exacerbated that stress (I'm not sure I ever heard what the story was there). I'm sure there were other factors. But he did what he did, and that did change my opinion of him, even if he was not fully in control of himself at the time. I still have his DVD, but I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it since, and I doubt I will again. I don't hate him, though. I don't know enough about the man or his situation to be able to even form such an opinion.

I could understand that if he'd done it deliberately. But he didn't and wouldn't have if he'd been in his right mind.

 

[sprig0701]

Okay, I can see how the discussion has gone to Benoit. Kinda an extreme comparison to Arnold's infidelity and whether their acts merit us as collectors cherishing, or displaying, figures or statues we've collected of them.

To me, what Benoit did was completely shocking. Hard to believe that someone I grew up watching, or to others that looked up to him as an athlete/celebrity, could do something as heinous as that. Much along the lines of those who looked up to OJ Simpson and the crimes he was "charged" and found not guilty of. Just so hard to believe people of their stature could commit such acts.

But, what Arnold did (along with millions of others), just puzzles me as a husband. I took vows with my wife, and I cherish those, but that doesn't give me or others the right to place ourselves above him for being unfaithful to Maria. And besides, there's two sides to every story, and we haven't heard Arnold's, and to the extreme some people in the media and entertainment have made this out to be, nothing he can say will ever change what they've perceived him to be so we probably never will.