Avengers: Endgame

[jye4ever]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Oh **** that’s right I forgot about that part from A1.

What, the MCU is 22 movies long so sue me lol

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Can you imagine if Disney in full appreciation and respect of the MCU popularity and box office returns from the fans that they quickly went and addressed the Hulk backlash by bringing in Ruffalo for a quick set of yes expensive reshoots JUST to address that backlash by inserting a Hulk rage moment in an extended cut bluray or even a theatrical rerelease.

I think JAWS would go see it 5 more times lol

While it won’t happen but if they did do it the level of jaw dropping respect they would receive would be an even bigger story than the success of the MCU itself.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

But don't I remember pre-Infinity War conversations about power levels and people saying that none of these characters should be able to beat Thanos?

*cough* I said none of the avengers should be able to beat Thanos 1 on 1. That was before seeing IW, so I was thinking about comic book Thanos, since I didn't know what the movie version was capable of or what kind of powers he had without the gauntlet. After watching IW, I felt Thanos without the glove was beatable by the big four together and definitely by Strange by himself. Same with Captain Marvel. Scarlet Witch was a surprise for me because her abilities aren't clearly define in the movies and her powers seem to be heavily connected to her emotions, so it fluctuates. She should study with Dr. Strange.

Anyway, I like that the big 3 were no match for Thanos in EG, and even Scarlet Witch using her chaos magic could only restrain and damage Thanos's armor briefly, before he had his space ship shoot up the whole place, including himself, but he can take it, unlike other characters. I was suprised Thanos was still standing in the end with minimal to no damage. It showed how strong and skillful he truly is in battle.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well since we are going off this IW “arc” that we wanted fulfilled I think all Hulk fans would’ve been disappointed had Hulk lost...again even 5 years later.

I don’t know man I have to admit that this whole Hulk thing is pretty complicated on what is the right path for him.

Why would it be considered a loss?? I don't think of it as Thor, Iron Man and Cap as losing.. I feel they won.. Hulk could have / should have been part of all of that. I never thought it a million years he would have beat Thanos single handedly. I figured he would take his lumps.. But he would have with the rest of the team.. And won with the rest of the team.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

The Russo's original Hulk entrance in the final battle.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Okay after two long weeks I finally was able to catch the late show in 2D IMAX again last night and I rate this film even higher now.

What? No way

Not the experience of course, I don't know that opening night with those thrills and that crowd can *ever* be replicated in a movie theater by any film again, but I do feel that the quality of AEG is a few notches higher after seeing it again.

I definitely rank it higher than IW, TWS, and the rest of the MCU.

What hit me was just how damn compelling and poignant all the non-battle scenes were. The first 2/3 of this film *definitely* holds up. I was pretty taken aback at just how many touching interactions there are. The team recovering at the beginning, Scott reuniting with his daughter, BW and Cap in the compound, BW and HE in Tokyo, HE explaining the nature of BW's death to the team by the lake, Thor and his mom and on and on.

I can't get over how good the CGI on Professor Hulk is.

What is possibly most mind-blowing is thinking back to IM 1 and IM 2 and then realizing that we're now in a place where I perfectly accept Rhodey and Nebula exploring a barren planet and arguing about whether Indiana Jones traps will spike them

as if it's just common conversation in a normal every day scene.

Somehow they got here in a way that feels perfectly acceptable and legitimate.

I mean there's a long scene with Hulk, a raccoon, Thor, and two space aliens playing video games where I'm focused on the drama of what they're saying and not at all distracted by the absurdity of what I'm actually looking at! The entire journey of the MCU is just unreal.​

I always enjoyed the first 30 min and feel that it is actually the standout part of the film.

I really hope that a 2nd viewing will help me enjoy the 2nd act.. Which just felt unimaginative and boring.

JAWS I realize that you've got some things to work out and I won't take away from your scorched earth crusade against the Russos, AEG, MCU, cinema itself, and so on (

​

) but at the end of the day I find Banner/Professor Hulk extremely likable in this film. As a character he has a lot of great moments that I really like. Yes of course I get that they aren't the type of moments you feel that any self-respecting Hulk fan should ever want or have to see but they're there.​

I never said that while watching the film that I disliked Green Banner.. It was after the film was over that I realized what they did. They erased the Hulk from the MCU and unlike the rest of the fallen heroes we NEVER got to say goodbye.

When it comes to favorite childhood heroes being brought to life on screen my two big demands are that they fulfill at least one of these: 1. Make the character like they are in the comics and/or 2: Make them cool. I don't need anyone taking one of my lifelong favorites and making him a joke to world audiences.

So we agree that the film failed Hulk on both accounts even if you "like him"

And that was a big problem that I had with Cap in A1. Sure you can say that he did such and such important things but he didn't strike me as a particular awesome representation of the Cap from the comics and so the fall back was well was he at least cool and that I found to be an emphatic no as well. I'm like "great I'm not seeing Cap moments from the comics play out on screen AND he looks like a flipping dork to everyone else sitting around me, thanks Joss."

I said it before and I will say it again.. I would take a A1 type Cap representation for Hulk in EG any day.

I agree that Cap was not fleshed out as well in that film as he was in his later films.. I swear if he was wearing his TFA or CW outfit you would have been happy with him in the film. ​

Hell after Avengers was released in the cinema I don't remember anyone thinking he was a joke.. The Cowl became a punchline but Cap was never a joke on a character level.

No AEG Hulk doesn't represent comic Hulk in any form but I freaking love the character. Everything, right down to sharing one of his tacos with Scott outside the complex and then strutting away while the music plays. Great stuff. But if the scorched earth trauma means that once again my praise falls on deaf ears so be it.

​

Hopefully you get what you want in an upcoming film or can just be content with A1.​

And that is fine. He is not a childhood fav of yours.. I liked him up until the film ended ​

and I realized just how wrong they got him.

I am cool with people liking him. I am not cool with how the Russo's handled him.

I don't even think they made him a "Joke" Hulk was not in the film to be a joke.

They just erased the character and didn't warn anyone it was coming.

The level of disappointment can not be expressed when you see your fav character disappear for an entire film (even though the freaking trailers show him running with the rest of the team) with the hopes and promise that he will be back in the 2nd film only to find out that the film makers decided to erase him from existence.. Off screen no less. ​

Avengers 1 Cap has nothing on any of that.

Anyway I was surprised to find that when all is said and done the film didn't really hit me as being *that* Cap-centric this time around. It really felt like a team effort to me. Even with the awesome Mjolnir scenes it still amounted to Cap simply keeping Thanos busy in order to give Strange enough time to rally the troops. SW and obviously Tony were bigger MVP's once the main battle was underway. And man what a send-off to Tony. No way can I consider this Captain America: Endgame with his battlefield death, funeral, final hologram speech, etc.

Speaking of the funeral Alan Silvestri's score was absolutely off the charts epic during that scene. It really took me back to great scores from decades past. "The MCU has weak villains and forgettable music." No more. I almost felt like I appreciated the epilogues as much as the battles themselves. Really emotional curtain call.

It was sad seeing Steve encouraging the guys at the Support Group before his face fell ever so subtly and betrayed his own depression. Seeing Peggy smile with a tear in her eye while they danced made me not care about how unhappy some random alternate husband might be. SHE was clearly going to live happily ever after now and until now was one of the most tragic characters in the entire MCU. Pining for Steve her whole life and then ultimately dying sad and alone on the verge of dementia? Go job heading all that off Steve. I will say that she looked quite fantastic at age 50 or however old she was in 1970 though, lol.

Oh yeah, and Rocket. There's just something comforting whenever he's on screen in a film like this. He really lifts the somber tone but in a way that somehow feels natural and earned. Also seeing Steven and Tony go on their own little side quest together was incredibly satisfying after their massive rift post-CW.

The fact that this film technically didn't delegitimize any of IW Thanos' victory is incredibly ballsy and awesome. Permanent consequences really give gravitas to the entire affair. Just an epic and satisfying experience from beginning to end.

Khev the movie is what it is.. A great film for fans of Iron Man, Cap, Thor and MCU fans who don't care about or know the Hulk character and that is fine. Hulk fans got the crud end of the stick.

Just imagine if the film handled Cap in a way that you did not recognize him.. Or even if they portrayed him in a way that you viewed him in A1.

Or what if his character was even done well but was not the cap from the comics and only did one important thing that was not given much fanfare and that was it.. Next time you see him he is at the funeral.

What would be your feeling about this film then? But..

That's where I am. That's what happened.




But I don't hold anything against anyone for loving it. Unless Hulk is your number one hero. Then you are the worst kind of Traitor.

You should love this film Khev. No question.

I am hoping I can end up at least enjoy it from a Cap, Iron Man, Thor, perspective. ​

But they did the Hulk and Hulk fans dirty.. No question. I really wish he wasn't even suppose to be in the movie. I would have enjoyed it much more. No doubt.. That is sad when you really think about it. I would rather have no Hulk then what we got. Which was no Hulk but the promise of one.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Can you imagine if Disney in full appreciation and respect of the MCU popularity and box office returns from the fans that they quickly went and addressed the Hulk backlash by bringing in Ruffalo for a quick set of yes expensive reshoots JUST to address that backlash by inserting a Hulk rage moment in an extended cut bluray or even a theatrical rerelease.

I think JAWS would go see it 5 more times lol

While it won’t happen but if they did do it the level of jaw dropping respect they would receive would be an even bigger story than the success of the MCU itself.

What could have been..

It makes me sad.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

What could have been..

It makes me sad.

Just remember that Hulk is still better than this

 

[e30ernest]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Speaking of Hulk, there were points in the film that I felt he was going to show some quick rage flares, and I thought it raised some mild tension in a good way:

1. That photo scene where he was arguing with Scott and the kids. I was waiting for him to scream "TAKE THE DAMN PICTURE!". I think it would have gone well either way.

2. When he told Thor to take his hands off him. There were definitely undertones of anger there. Hulk sounded threatening and it felt like he was making a real effort to reign in his annoyance. The shift from annoyance to empathy over Thor was very apparent to me. That scene played out perfectly IMO.

3. The Ancient One pulling Banner out of Hulk should have ended with Hulk rampaging. But I understood why they didn't do it.

4. Hulk learning of Nat's death. He should have damage the machine when he pounded it. Again by necessity (they needed the machine to remain operational to bring in Thanos) they couldn't do it.

5. Final battle he should have had some focused moments of him I agree. But IMO I doubt it would have been satisfactory to a lot of Hulk fans.

I think there's more to see from Hulk's arc in future MCU films. I don't agree that the Russos killed Hulk. They sidelines him yes, but he ain't dead yet. I don't think Ruffalo's contract is up yet either right?

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Speaking of Hulk, there were points in the film that I felt he was going to show some quick rage flares, and I thought it raised some mild tension in a good way:

1. That photo scene where he was arguing with Scott and the kids. I was waiting for him to scream "TAKE THE DAMN PICTURE!". I think it would have gone well either way.

2. When he told Thor to take his hands off him. There were definitely undertones of anger there. Hulk sounded threatening and it felt like he was making a real effort to reign in his annoyance. The shift from annoyance to empathy over Thor was very apparent to me. That scene played out perfectly IMO.

3. The Ancient One pulling Banner out of Hulk should have ended with Hulk rampaging. But I understood why they didn't do it.

4. Hulk learning of Nat's death. He should have damage the machine when he pounded it. Again by necessity (they needed the machine to remain operational to bring in Thanos) they couldn't do it.

5. Final battle he should have had some focused moments of him I agree. But IMO I doubt it would have been satisfactory to a lot of Hulk fans.

I think there's more to see from Hulk's arc in future MCU films. I don't agree that the Russos killed Hulk. They sidelines him yes, but he ain't dead yet. I don't think Ruffalo's contract is up yet either right?

#2. Yes.. Probably the best scene for HINO (Hulk in name only) in the film. You did feel that there was still a bit of Hulk in there. Closest they got to Professor Hulk from the comics.

#5. I do agree that had I not gone out of my way and asked for some "generalized" Hulk spoilers before the film then I would have been let down by just a few focused moments.. But even with the heads up I end up being disappointed because there were none

I have fully admitted that if they do right by Hulk in a future film then my enjoyment of this film will improve. Well I hope it does. I still have issues with parts of the film and its story.

As for Ruffalo. I have read that he has two more films on his contract. I have read that he has one more and I have read that he is done with the character.

IDK. We shall see

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Just remember that Hulk is still better than this

So I was watching that scene the other day.. WTF.. Seriously WTF!!!

The scene ends up having no importance.. SO why no just get rid of it?

The lip looks weird in other moments but never like that.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

While Endgame is a far Better movie..

I have not been this disapointed by a film since Godzilla 1998.

That film had a GINO and this one has a HINO

Like I said. Endgame is by far a better film.

But the feeling of frustration and disapointment I felt and that crappy feeling in the pit of my stomach was exactly how I felt hafter the 1998 Godzilla film.


I have no idea what I am going to do if the new Godzilla film sucks.

Glass let me down.
Endgame let me down.
I am sure Star Wars will let me down.


Please Godzilla.. Please...

I am starting to worry though

 

[e30ernest]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Because Science explains Endgame time travel based on quantum physics:



He even takes multiple jabs at the Hulk (sorry Jaws). :Lol:

So as far as the impossibility of backwards time travel goes, the movie stays pretty faithful to the scientific theories of how time travel might work. I now appreciate this film more.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

What? No way

Yes, I enjoy every single scene in this movie and think the action and drama tops even IW.

So we agree that the film failed Hulk on both accounts even if you "like him"

Well yes but only the sense that the MCU has failed Bucky and Nick Fury. Because neither of those two characters represent "my" versions of those characters from the comics which are a dead teenager and grizzled white guy who sometimes joins battles with the other superheroes. But I get that Buck and Fury represent later comic versions of the characters that actually play out really awesome on screen.

MCU Fury is a total non-equation in actual combat but I still like him for the part he plays. I guess I see a parallel between him and AEG Banner worth mentioning. I know I won't change your mind on any of this so it's strange that I even make an effort but I feel like I can't describe this movie without a big disclaimer for those fans angry about Hulk. If it weren't for you guys I'd simply enjoy his character for the part he played and that'd be it. And I'm guessing that despite what you're seeing on YouTube vast legions of movie-going "normies" liked him too. I'm not saying that to prove you wrong, I guess I'm just throwing that out there especially since you kind of say the same thing about how you think audiences perceived A1 Cap. I might not agree with it but I do appreciate the notion that I might be making a bigger deal of it than necessary. So I offer the same.

But yes like Alien 3 the first IW trailer advertised one thing (Hulk charging into battle) that NEVER played out on screen, and like the A3 trailer the "lie" is the number one thing you were excited for! So I get your take 100%. And if you then see the rest of the film in a negative light, rank it toward the bottom of the list, hate Cap now, forsake the MCU, any of those things would be less extreme than crazy overreactions than I've had about various films (usually SW related, lol) so it's all good.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

2. When he told Thor to take his hands off him. There were definitely undertones of anger there. Hulk sounded threatening and it felt like he was making a real effort to reign in his annoyance. The shift from annoyance to empathy over Thor was very apparent to me. That scene played out perfectly IMO.

Yes that scene absolutely stuck out to me in how quickly Banner seemed to shift from empathy to annoyance as you say (with possibly dire consequences) despite his earlier scenes suggesting that that would no longer be possible. That was really well done.

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I am sure Star Wars will let me down.

Is that even possible at this point?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Is that even possible at this point?

Do you mean because Hulk was such a devastating disappointment for JAWS in the final cinematic event of a lifetime that was a 10 year investment, so nothing can ever be more crushing to his soul than Hulk in IW and EG because he's being a Hulk fan since he was a child and now the character that he loves has been ruined for him forever and ever....or are you just comparing EP 9 to ep 8?

 

[Khev]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I was thinking the latter but I suppose the former applies too, lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I was thinking the latter but I suppose the former applies too, lol.

Oh, ok. I just wasn't sure if you were talking about the deep wound in JAWS' soul that may never be heal or Ep. 8.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well yes but only the sense that the MCU has failed Bucky and Nick Fury. Because neither of those two characters represent "my" versions of those characters from the comics which are a dead teenager and grizzled white guy who sometimes joins battles with the other superheroes. But I get that Buck and Fury represent later comic versions of the characters that actually play out really awesome on screen.

MCU Fury is a total non-equation in actual combat but I still like him for the part he plays. I guess I see a parallel between him and AEG Banner worth mentioning. I know I won't change your mind on any of this so it's strange that I even make an effort but I feel like I can't describe this movie without a big disclaimer for those fans angry about Hulk. If it weren't for you guys I'd simply enjoy his character for the part he played and that'd be it. And I'm guessing that despite what you're seeing on YouTube vast legions of movie-going "normies" liked him too. I'm not saying that to prove you wrong, I guess I'm just throwing that out there especially since you kind of say the same thing about how you think audiences perceived A1 Cap. I might not agree with it but I do appreciate the notion that I might be making a bigger deal of it than necessary. So I offer the same.

But yes like Alien 3 the first IW trailer advertised one thing (Hulk charging into battle) that NEVER played out on screen, and like the A3 trailer the "lie" is the number one thing you were excited for! So I get your take 100%. And if you then see the rest of the film in a negative light, rank it toward the bottom of the list, hate Cap now, forsake the MCU, any of those things would be less extreme than crazy overreactions than I've had about various films (usually SW related, lol) so it's all good.

It was never my intention to sway your feelings on this film.. That would be impossible and I don't blame you.

I only keep talking about it because peeps keep poking me with the stick.

Obviously film failed to deliver on the one piece that was most important to me so the rest of the film for now is tainted (For Now) I guess just as A1 is tainted for you.. I still maintain that that is no comparison when it comes to how these characters were treated but I get what you are trying to say.


If you are comparing Fury and Bucky to the Hulk in that they are characters that you don't really care about how they were handled then you are fine as long as Cap is handled well then Yep.. I get why you feel that way about Hulk.

Trying to compare Fury and Bucky's portrayals for you to Hulk portrayal for me is not in the same ball park. I am not exactly sure which point you were making.

But again there is no way that the way the Hulk was done that your enjoyment of the film would be ruined.

Only way that would be effected is if they completely got Caps character wrong and or gave him little to do in the Ultimate Avengers film..

You know as well as I that we would both be on the other side of the fence if roles for the characters were reversed.

But that is fine. Like I said I would never dream of trying to sway your opinion on the film...

I am so Happy that you get 6 great Cap movies (7 if you like AOU or 6 if you don't want to count A1) and I get to find happiness in TIH and A1 from 8 and 10 years ago.

Just take it Khev.. Take it all.