Avengers: Endgame

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Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I'm going to see this film for a second time this coming week with my daughter. I'm hoping my opinions change somewhat.

Since I'm also a long time Hulk fan, his lack of action makes me feel the overall film is well..... lacking. I agree and feel Jaw's heartache over this.

Perhaps they would've put Hulk fighting Thanos in place of CM the second round.... Things would've been a lot better. Meaning, CM got her shots on Thanos until he caught her arm and flung her. But when she returned, instead of CM, replace her with the Hulk and have him on the receiving end of the power stone punch would've been perfect (and fit better IMO). This way, all of the main original TA characters had a piece of the action instead of having her presence feeling so forced in there to begin with.

Praise to IM, Thor, and Cap fans.... They were served justice! Loved their moments, especially Caps and IMs. Great ending to 2 of their greatest characters. Thor we will see again. With his character funnier than ever, he will fit nicely babbling with PQ in the next GOTG film.

And to Tony Stark... We are all safe now.... R.I.P. :(
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Gamma overdosed Hulk could’ve used his Hulk clap to cause massive damages to Thanos’s armada culminating in a blow making Thanos discombobulated enough so that Stark could take the stones plus it would’ve been a cool call back to TIH.

If BP can use his vibranium shockwave Hulk should’ve used his gamma clap shockwave!

They should’ve had Hulk run in powerful strides causing a half moon green gamma shockwave line form in front of him as he locomotive his way down the battlefield.

Eventually his gamma overdose dies down like a battery and he returns to professor Hulk that way the Avengers don’t need to fight raged Hulk.

Since MCU enjoys their humor they could’ve had other Avengers looking at unleashed Hulk with their mouths wide open lol

BP could say to Shuri “My suit needs an upgrade”
 
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

No, Hulk beating anyone has no weight or importance. Hulk's most memorable moments were against, Thor, Loki, Ultron, Hulkbuster, the giant dog and giant demon thing in Thor 3. All big names. We've seen him beat menions, random aliens, ultron robots....it means nothing. It had to be Thanos. No one else. It was Thanos who embarrassed him and emasculated him. Before IW came out, I predicted that Thanos would beat Hulk the same way Hulk beat Loki, just to make the point that Thanos was on another level. I was fine with it and was actually looking forward to it. I didn't expect it to happen in the first 5 minutes or for Hulk to hide for the rest of the film tho. I also expected and wanted to see an enraged powered Hulk in EG give Thanos a fight, kind of like Thor and Cap. I thought there was going to be a moment where the big four would gang up on Thanos taking turns hitting him, slowly breaking him down, his confidence tested, and ultimately, getting the gauntlet off by breaking his arm. That would have made more sense to me than Tony stealing the stones Bugs Bunny style and Thanos not feeling the connection to the stones going away. :lol

Ok you convinced me.. It should have been Thanos. I guess in Hindsight I just know that there was no way the Russo's were going to give the Hulk that kind of glory.. So I have found myself just wishing that he got to do something.

I also think the Russo bros like Bruce Banner more than the monster Hulk. Clearly they got rid of Hulk in IW as quickly as possible and used Banner for the rest of the film instead. It's obvious that they find Bruce more interesting and compelling than a big dumb monster. It's why they used Proffesor Hulk instead. The most obvious moment that tells you how the Russo bros truly feel about the classic Hulk is when they time travel, and the first thing they see is classic Hulk trashing a car by jumping on it like a mindless baby, and what is Proffesor Hulk's reaction? He was embarrassed. That's the Russo Bro using that character as their avatar. They much rather use Banner, but they had to compromise, because they know that people don't give a rat's ass about Banner, so they made him big and green, "the best of both words." We know better tho.

Even John Campea is talking about it. I think the lack of Hulk and payoff for the character will hurt the film in retrospect, once the hype is gone.



Yeah I watched that video last night.. There are a lot more of those out there now..

I think its very telling just how uneventful the Green Banner snap felt in terms of Drama that many of his viewers seem to forget he even did it.

I agree with you that when the hype is gone people will see that being a bigger issue in terms of good storytelling an payoff for a character.


Before the film came out I also thought it would be the original team that would defeat Thanos.. Which I thought would have been more fitting since everyone else gets to keep coming back in future films

Its also would have been more poetic that in IW the they could bot defeat thanos because they were broke up but together in EG they could. It would have been a true send off to the original Avengers.

I still like the big battle but found that much less interesting then the Thor / Cap / IM vs Thanos battle.

Gamma overdosed Hulk could’ve used his Hulk clap to cause massive damages to Thanos’s armada culminating in a blow making Thanos discombobulated enough so that Stark could take the stones plus it would’ve been a cool call back to TIH.

If BP can use his vibranium shockwave Hulk should’ve used his gamma clap shockwave!

They should’ve had Hulk run in powerful strides causing a half moon green gamma shockwave line form in front of him as he locomotive his way down the battlefield.

Eventually his gamma overdose dies down like a battery and he returns to professor Hulk that way the Avengers don’t need to fight raged Hulk.

Since MCU enjoys their humor they could’ve had other Avengers looking at unleashed Hulk with their mouths wide open lol

BP could say to Shuri “My suit needs an upgrade”


I vote for Jye to write the next Marvel Avengers film.. With added consultation from me. :)
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I’m coming from a position of NOT taking ANYTHING away from anybody, not CM, not AM, not A Force!

I’m happy everyone got their moment to shine ON THE BATTLEFIELD but then why not Hulk?

Hulk snap is NOT ON THE BATTLEFIELD!

Look it’s possible there’s the whole male toxicity angle going on and if Marvel wants to prove that wrong then release another MCU movie with a Hulk rage out moment.

Believe me JAWS just go back to my original opening night review and you’ll see this topic was my main gripe that ALMOST derailed the movie for me.

But like I said in that review there’s enough right with the movie that I still give it a solid final review.

I think they thought the 5 year buffer would be enough to shut down Hulk’s rematch arc.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I think the best we could have hoped for Hulk was him getting a good Hulk-out moment against Thanos' minions. He was already squarely beaten by Thanos in IW without Thanos even using the gauntlet. Hulk might have a strength advantage, but Thanos was just the better fighter (aiming for vital points rather than Hulk's semi-random shots). If Hulk went against Thanos in EG Hulk would have probably lost still, which would come out as a negative IMO.

No one (apart from SW) won against Thanos in hand-to-hand combat. Strange could have probably won against an ungloved Thanos at least temporarily (sending him to another dimension perhaps) but none of the core six stood a chance.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Here are some other Hulk wasted videos.. There are more but I took the ones that are more popular sites and not ones that look like I set up my camera and vented :lol





 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

You know how Snoke orders Kylo to “take off that ridiculous thing” (his helmet) that’s what I want to tell Professor Hulk, take off that ridiculous quantum spandex suit and become the real Hulk lol

Man Disney’s cgi has truly become photo real even on an Imax screen!
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

After all that Negativity.. Here is some Hulk love...





Here is a good video that gives me a different look at a scene in in Thor 3.

 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

You know how Snoke orders Kylo to “take off that ridiculous thing” (his helmet) that’s what I want to tell Professor Hulk, take off that ridiculous quantum spandex suit and become the real Hulk lol

Man Disney’s cgi has truly become photo real even on an Imax screen!


I cant fault the CGI.. Its amazing..

There is a clip on youtube of Green Banner at Fat Thot's home and the color is off.. So he does not look Green.. Its funny because it just looks like a notmal human Ruffalo.. Its that good that I don't think I would think anything about it if it was just a shot of his face and I had not seen the movie already.

Some great F/X for sure.
 
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I think the best we could have hoped for Hulk was him getting a good Hulk-out moment against Thanos' minions. He was already squarely beaten by Thanos in IW without Thanos even using the gauntlet. Hulk might have a strength advantage, but Thanos was just the better fighter (aiming for vital points rather than Hulk's semi-random shots). If Hulk went against Thanos in EG Hulk would have probably lost still, which would come out as a negative IMO.

No one (apart from SW) won against Thanos in hand-to-hand combat. Strange could have probably won against an ungloved Thanos at least temporarily (sending him to another dimension perhaps) but none of the core six stood a chance.

Since the other 3 of the Big Four weren't able to beat down Thanos - just like they weren't able to in Infinity War - what would have been the harm in having Hulk fight him again and likewise not be able to get the job done? Why did the others get a second shot but not Hulk? Who says he has to win this time? They simply should have shown him facing Thanos again as the others did, fighting together 'like the old man said'.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Well since we are going off this IW “arc” that we wanted fulfilled I think all Hulk fans would’ve been disappointed had Hulk lost...again even 5 years later.

I don’t know man I have to admit that this whole Hulk thing is pretty complicated on what is the right path for him.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I watched Ragnorok again last night. I know some rank that pretty low but I love it. An absolute blast of a movie. Might be in my top 5 for the MCU.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Since the other 3 of the Big Four weren't able to beat down Thanos - just like they weren't able to in Infinity War - what would have been the harm in having Hulk fight him again and likewise not be able to get the job done? Why did the others get a second shot but not Hulk? Who says he has to win this time? They simply should have shown him facing Thanos again as the others did, fighting together 'like the old man said'.

Jye had it right above. Some fans were looking for payback after Hulk decidedly lost in IW without Thanos even needing to use the Power Stone. So to have Hulk lose again would have been a repeat of IW.

Hulk is a difficult character to write into an ensemble movie I think. If he's made powerful, it diminishes the rest of the team. If he's too weak, it angers the fans.

AA only worked since anyone of the superpowered Avengers could have beaten Loki or the Chitauri. The difficulty for the team came from the overwhelming numbers (6 vs hundreds/thousands).
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Okay after two long weeks I finally was able to catch the late show in 2D IMAX again last night and I rate this film even higher now. Not the experience of course, I don't know that opening night with those thrills and that crowd can *ever* be replicated in a movie theater by any film again, but I do feel that the quality of AEG is a few notches higher after seeing it again.

I definitely rank it higher than IW, TWS, and the rest of the MCU.

What hit me was just how damn compelling and poignant all the non-battle scenes were. The first 2/3 of this film *definitely* holds up. I was pretty taken aback at just how many touching interactions there are. The team recovering at the beginning, Scott reuniting with his daughter, BW and Cap in the compound, BW and HE in Tokyo, HE explaining the nature of BW's death to the team by the lake, Thor and his mom and on and on.

I can't get over how good the CGI on Professor Hulk is.

What is possibly most mind-blowing is thinking back to IM 1 and IM 2 and then realizing that we're now in a place where I perfectly accept Rhodey and Nebula exploring a barren planet and arguing about whether Indiana Jones traps will spike them as if it's just common conversation in a normal every day scene. Somehow they got here in a way that feels perfectly acceptable and legitimate.

I mean there's a long scene with Hulk, a raccoon, Thor, and two space aliens playing video games where I'm focused on the drama of what they're saying and not at all distracted by the absurdity of what I'm actually looking at! The entire journey of the MCU is just unreal.

JAWS I realize that you've got some things to work out and I won't take away from your scorched earth crusade against the Russos, AEG, MCU, cinema itself, and so on (;)) but at the end of the day I find Banner/Professor Hulk extremely likable in this film. As a character he has a lot of great moments that I really like. Yes of course I get that they aren't the type of moments you feel that any self-respecting Hulk fan should ever want or have to see but they're there. When it comes to favorite childhood heroes being brought to life on screen my two big demands are that they fulfill at least one of these: 1. Make the character like they are in the comics and/or 2: Make them cool. I don't need anyone taking one of my lifelong favorites and making him a joke to world audiences.

And that was a big problem that I had with Cap in A1. Sure you can say that he did such and such important things but he didn't strike me as a particular awesome representation of the Cap from the comics and so the fall back was well was he at least cool and that I found to be an emphatic no as well. I'm like "great I'm not seeing Cap moments from the comics play out on screen AND he looks like a flipping dork to everyone else sitting around me, thanks Joss."

No AEG Hulk doesn't represent comic Hulk in any form but I freaking love the character. Everything, right down to sharing one of his tacos with Scott outside the complex and then strutting away while the music plays. Great stuff. But if the scorched earth trauma means that once again my praise falls on deaf ears so be it. ;) Hopefully you get what you want in an upcoming film or can just be content with A1.

Anyway I was surprised to find that when all is said and done the film didn't really hit me as being *that* Cap-centric this time around. It really felt like a team effort to me. Even with the awesome Mjolnir scenes it still amounted to Cap simply keeping Thanos busy in order to give Strange enough time to rally the troops. SW and obviously Tony were bigger MVP's once the main battle was underway. And man what a send-off to Tony. No way can I consider this Captain America: Endgame with his battlefield death, funeral, final hologram speech, etc.

Speaking of the funeral Alan Silvestri's score was absolutely off the charts epic during that scene. It really took me back to great scores from decades past. "The MCU has weak villains and forgettable music." No more. I almost felt like I appreciated the epilogues as much as the battles themselves. Really emotional curtain call.

It was sad seeing Steve encouraging the guys at the Support Group before his face fell ever so subtly and betrayed his own depression. Seeing Peggy smile with a tear in her eye while they danced made me not care about how unhappy some random alternate husband might be. SHE was clearly going to live happily ever after now and until now was one of the most tragic characters in the entire MCU. Pining for Steve her whole life and then ultimately dying sad and alone on the verge of dementia? Go job heading all that off Steve. I will say that she looked quite fantastic at age 50 or however old she was in 1970 though, lol.

Oh yeah, and Rocket. There's just something comforting whenever he's on screen in a film like this. He really lifts the somber tone but in a way that somehow feels natural and earned. Also seeing Steven and Tony go on their own little side quest together was incredibly satisfying after their massive rift post-CW.

The fact that this film technically didn't delegitimize any of IW Thanos' victory is incredibly ballsy and awesome. Permanent consequences really give gravitas to the entire affair. Just an epic and satisfying experience from beginning to end.
 
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Jye had it right above. Some fans were looking for payback after Hulk decidedly lost in IW without Thanos even needing to use the Power Stone. So to have Hulk lose again would have been a repeat of IW.

Hulk is a difficult character to write into an ensemble movie I think. If he's made powerful, it diminishes the rest of the team. If he's too weak, it angers the fans.

AA only worked since anyone of the superpowered Avengers could have beaten Loki or the Chitauri. The difficulty for the team came from the overwhelming numbers (6 vs hundreds/thousands).

But don't I remember pre-Infinity War conversations about power levels and people saying that none of these characters should be able to beat Thanos?
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Pass the onions:



Everybody wants a happy ending. Right?

But it doesn't always roll that way. Maybe this time...

I'm hoping that if you play this back, it's in celebration. I hope families are reunited, I hope we get it back, and something like a normal version of this world has been restored. If there ever was such a thing.

God, what a world, Universe, now.

If you told me ten years ago that we weren’t alone, let alone, you know, to this extent, I would have been surprised. But, come on… who knew?

Those epic forces of light and dark that have come into play. And for better or worse, that's the reality that Morgan's gonna have to find a way to grow up in.

So I thought I better record a little greeting, in case of an untimely death on my part. Not that death at any time isn't untimely.

This time travel thing that we're gonna try to pull of tomorrow, it got me scratching my head about this and think of the survivability of this thing.

But then again that's a hero's gig. Part of a journey is the end.

What am I even doing this for? Everything's gonna work out exactly the way it's supposed to.

I love you 3000.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Jye had it right above. Some fans were looking for payback after Hulk decidedly lost in IW without Thanos even needing to use the Power Stone. So to have Hulk lose again would have been a repeat of IW.

Hulk is a difficult character to write into an ensemble movie I think. If he's made powerful, it diminishes the rest of the team. If he's too weak, it angers the fans.

AA only worked since anyone of the superpowered Avengers could have beaten Loki or the Chitauri. The difficulty for the team came from the overwhelming numbers (6 vs hundreds/thousands).

Yeah this whole Hulk affair is actually not only quite difficult to pin down his arc but also quite sad to see it hurting fans enjoyment of what should’ve been a rousing finale for all.

Okay after two long weeks I finally was able to catch the late show in 2D IMAX again last night and I rate this film even higher now. Not the experience of course, I don't know that opening night with those thrills and that crowd can *ever* be replicated in a movie theater by any film again, but I do feel that the quality of AEG is a few notches higher after seeing it again.

I definitely rank it higher than IW, TWS, and the rest of the MCU.

What hit me was just how damn compelling and poignant all the non-battle scenes were. The first 2/3 of this film *definitely* holds up. I was pretty taken aback at just how many touching interactions there are. The team recovering at the beginning, Scott reuniting with his daughter, BW and Cap in the compound, BW and HE in Tokyo, HE explaining the nature of BW's death to the team by the lake, Thor and his mom and on and on.

I can't get over how good the CGI on Professor Hulk is.

What is possibly most mind-blowing is thinking back to IM 1 and IM 2 and then realizing that we're now in a place where I perfectly accept Rhodey and Nebula exploring a barren planet and arguing about whether Indiana Jones traps will spike them as if it's just common conversation in a normal every day scene. Somehow they got here in a way that feels perfectly acceptable and legitimate.

I mean there's a long scene with Hulk, a raccoon, Thor, and two space aliens playing video games where I'm focused on the drama of what they're saying and not at all distracted by the absurdity of what I'm actually looking at! The entire journey of the MCU is just unreal.

JAWS I realize that you've got some things to work out and I won't take away from your scorched earth crusade against the Russos, AEG, MCU, cinema itself, and so on (;)) but at the end of the day I find Banner/Professor Hulk extremely likable in this film. As a character he has a lot of great moments that I really like. Yes of course I get that they aren't the type of moments you feel that any self-respecting Hulk fan should ever want or have to see but they're there. When it comes to favorite childhood heroes being brought to life on screen my two big demands are that they fulfill at least one of these: 1. Make the character like they are in the comics and/or 2: Make them cool. I don't need anyone taking one of my lifelong favorites and making him a joke to world audiences.

And that was a big problem that I had with Cap in A1. Sure you can say that he did such and such important things but he didn't strike me as a particular awesome representation of the Cap from the comics and so the fall back was well was he at least cool and that I found to be an emphatic no as well. I'm like "great I'm not seeing Cap moments from the comics play out on screen AND he looks like a flipping dork to everyone else sitting around me, thanks Joss."

No AEG Hulk doesn't represent comic Hulk in any form but I freaking love the character. Everything, right down to sharing one of his tacos with Scott outside the complex and then strutting away while the music plays. Great stuff. But if the scorched earth trauma means that once again my praise falls on deaf ears so be it. ;) Hopefully you get what you want in an upcoming film or can just be content with A1.

Anyway I was surprised to find that when all is said and done the film didn't really hit me as being *that* Cap-centric this time around. It really felt like a team effort to me. Even with the awesome Mjolnir scenes it still amounted to Cap simply keeping Thanos busy in order to give Strange enough time to rally the troops. SW and obviously Tony were bigger MVP's once the main battle was underway. And man what a send-off to Tony. No way can I consider this Captain America: Endgame with his battlefield death, funeral, final hologram speech, etc.

Speaking of the funeral Alan Silvestri's score was absolutely off the charts epic during that scene. It really took me back to great scores from decades past. "The MCU has weak villains and forgettable music." No more. I almost felt like I appreciated the epilogues as much as the battles themselves. Really emotional curtain call.

It was sad seeing Steve encouraging the guys at the Support Group before his face fell ever so subtly and betrayed his own depression. Seeing Peggy smile with a tear in her eye while they danced made me not care about how unhappy some random alternate husband might be. SHE was clearly going to live happily ever after now and until now was one of the most tragic characters in the entire MCU. Pining for Steve her whole life and then ultimately dying sad and alone on the verge of dementia? Go job heading all that off Steve. I will say that she looked quite fantastic at age 50 or however old she was in 1970 though, lol.

Oh yeah, and Rocket. There's just something comforting whenever he's on screen in a film like this. He really lifts the somber tone but in a way that somehow feels natural and earned. Also seeing Steven and Tony go on their own little side quest together was incredibly satisfying after their massive rift post-CW.

The fact that this film technically didn't delegitimize any of IW Thanos' victory is incredibly ballsy and awesome. Permanent consequences really give gravitas to the entire affair. Just an epic and satisfying experience from beginning to end.

Truly amazing the gift you possess of turning simple words into well articulated emotional pieces of art.

Yes it is crazy that we went from the hard core reality of what I always love to point out that the weight of steel needed to be scientifically correct in IM1 to like you said a freaking talking Racoon!

I loved it that we are reminded of that crazy fact when BW says “It’s ok I get emails from a racoon!” lololololol God I love that line!

Good to see that act 1 and 2 held up for you especially act 1 which I also love the somber reality.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

But don't I remember pre-Infinity War conversations about power levels and people saying that none of these characters should be able to beat Thanos?

There was talk of how the Hulk got beaten up and never reappeare in IW.. Even in this thread there were comments earlier about how the Hulk did not get payback.
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

I watched Ragnorok again last night. I know some rank that pretty low but I love it. An absolute blast of a movie. Might be in my top 5 for the MCU.

Oh gosh yes the movie is quite fun and the 3D on my 80” is just jaw dropping in that movie and actually fits the movie like a glove as it turns up the lunacy to 11!
 
Re: Avengers: Endgame (April 26th, 2019)

Yeah this whole Hulk affair is actually not only quite difficult to pin down his arc but also quite sad to see it hurting fans enjoyment of what should’ve been a rousing finale for all.



Truly amazing the gift you possess of turning simple words into well articulated emotional pieces of art.

Yes it is crazy that we went from the hard core reality of what I always love to point out that the weight of steel needed to be scientifically correct in IM1 to like you said a freaking talking Racoon!

I loved it that we are reminded of that crazy fact when BW says “It’s ok I get emails from a racoon!” lololololol God I love that line!

Good to see that act 1 and 2 held up for you especially act 1 which I also love the somber reality.

Thanks man and yes Acts I and II absolutely hold up. And I totally agree about Ragnarok. The "comedy and quips" that some people used to chastise the MCU for are *so* much more appreciated now with the end everything ended up. I love that the MCU can clean its own palette instead of being one-note from 2008-2019. It'll be fun bouncing from entries like IW/AEG back to Ant-Man and Ragnarok and what have you.

Another fun A1 callback in AEG that didn't hit me the first time was when the Big Three were first facing Thanos at the compound and Tony requested an armor power-up from Thor's lightning before then unleashing the megablast on Thanos. Of course Tony would think of a way to harness and weaponize that accidental boost he got way back in 2012 while fighting Thor in the forest.
 
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