Media Batman: Arkham Knight

[jye4ever]

I agree with both of you actually. I can see where Jye is coming from, I don't think there has been one game created that has been Oscar worthy, but I don't blame that on the quality of the stories, but more so the character performances in these games haven't been able to pull of performances like a great actor could. I think there has been plenty of awesomely written games but of course the voice acting has never been up to par with the acting of a live action movie. Metal Gear Solid 1 is my favorite game of all time, and Hayter did a great job for a video game, but that kind of dialogue and acting would never fly in a movie. Naughty Dawg has come the closest to bridging that gap between both mediums but the story in their games have never been the strongest, their attention to detail, character development, and mocap/voice acting performances is really where they excel at. I have quite a few issues with Last of Us's story. I will say this though, I think Uncharted 2 is better than The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in every way possible, even in the acting department

I do agree with Gaspar that the Arkham games are better than the Burton Batman films in every possible way except for the acting and it's not that far behind in that department either

 

[DiFabio]

The hype is making everyone bait each other in their posts. This place isn't going to make it to Tuesday.

 

[jye4ever]

We are all master baiters afterall.

 

[pturtle]

Wasn't trying to bait you Difabio , but to me, the atmosphere and nostalgia are the two best things about the Burton flicks, I prefer the Arkham universe in everything else.

We are all master baiters afterall.

 

[DiFabio]

No, it wasn't just that (or just your post) pturtle, no worries. All of us are looking to get embroiled in something because of the hype. Can you guys feeeeeeeel it?


My bro is getting all antsy and mean with everyone, especially since his exclusives got cancelled. He just wants to play this **** now and even took work off next week. This **** is going to sell a ton of copies.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[pturtle]

I won't lie, I can feel it

I might just hit a bar up tonight and start a brawl, the wait is killing me

 

[DarkMagic]

Eh, the way I see it, it's not that Joker "died" in Arkham City....it's that he died (with no air quotes) -- as in he is really dead in the Arkham Universe, just like RockSteady said he is. Memories, hallucinations, references, etc is not nearly the same thing as making him fake his death / bringing him back from the dead / undoing his death etc. As long as the character is really still d-e-a-d DEAD when the credits roll at the end of Arkham Knight, that's what matters. I don't recall RockSteady promising to not ever mention and steer completely clear of any direct references to the character in Arkham Knight --- which is basically exactly the opposite of what Nolan did when he said (paraphrasing here) that he doesn't want to even mention or have a flashback scene of Ledger's Joker in TDKR.

 

[DiFabio]

I won't lie, I can feel it

I might just hit a bar up tonight and start a brawl, the wait is killing me

Also, because I can't resist, on the subject of Burton Batman world vs. Arkham world, I think it's straight up stupid to say that the Arkham games are better films/movies. I mean, where the **** did that come from?


These Arkham games aren't movies, they're video games. Apples and oranges. They can't be better movies because they're not movies! The 4 games (assuming Knight is good, I don't see why it wouldn't be) are more fun and immersive than all 8 live action Batman movies. Ain't going to even argue against that. In these games you can BE Batman. You can fly around the city, beat up villains, play as sidekicks, solve puzzles, and fight dozens upon dozens of colorful rogues that the films will never touch. Not to mention you're following an adventure and playing missions that are more than a mere, 2 and a half hour movie. You won't hear any groaning from me. Of course the games are better in that regard, the medium offers way more for the consumer to do.



With that said though, these games would be better if they gave us some film skins. Imagine driving around in the '89 Batmobile, or gliding around in the Begins Batsuit, or grappling enemies in the '89 Batsuit. Julie Mewmar, Pfieiffer, Hathaway playable Catwoman skins anyone? It'd be pure bliss. Dunno why they don't do this.

 

[DiFabio]

Eh, the way I see it, it's not that Joker "died" in Arkham City....it's that he died (with no air quotes) -- as in he is really dead in the Arkham Universe, just like RockSteady said he is. Memories, hallucinations, references, etc is not nearly the same thing as making him fake his death / bringing him back from the dead / undoing his death etc. As long as the character is really still d-e-a-d DEAD when the credits roll at the end of Arkham Knight, that's what matters. I don't recall RockSteady promising to not ever mention and steer completely clear of any direct references to the character in Arkham Knight --- which is basically exactly the opposite of what Nolan did when he said (paraphrasing here) that he doesn't want to even mention or have a flashback scene of Ledger's Joker in TDKR.

Dunno if you want spoilers, so beware.

Spoiler

Well based upon what people are saying about the leaked videos, the Joker appears as visions throughout the story to Batman several times, then as a fear toxin hallucination possible boss, and THEN really does come back "from the dead" when all these revelations involving the characters (Batman, Scarecrow, Arkham Knight) unravels.

We'll see if this all turns out to be true, though, the screen caps of Joker certainly prove atleast 1 of the 3 being legit, so we'll see.

 

[pturtle]

Also, because I can't resist, on the subject of Burton Batman world vs. Arkham world, I think it's straight up stupid to say that the Arkham games are better films/movies. I mean, where the **** did that come from?


These Arkham games aren't movies, they're video games. Apples and oranges. They can't be better movies because they're not movies! The 4 games (assuming Knight is good, I don't see why it wouldn't be) are more fun and immersive than all 8 live action Batman movies. Ain't going to even argue against that. In these games you can BE Batman. You can fly around the city, beat up villains, play as sidekicks, solve puzzles, and fight dozens upon dozens of colorful rogues that the films will never touch. Not to mention you're following an adventure and playing missions that are more than a mere, 2 and a half hour movie. You won't hear any groaning from me.



With that said though, these games would be better if they gave us some film skins. Imagine driving around in the '89 Batmobile, or gliding around in the Begins Batsuit, or grappling enemies in the '89 Batsuit. Julie Mewmar, Pfieiffer, Hathaway playable Catwoman skins anyone? It'd be pure bliss. Dunno why they don't do this.

Well the line is thinning between both mediums the more these games progress. I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison in like who's the better Joker, Nicholson or Hamill's voice and RS animation team but to me, these games can't be Oscar worthy not because of the quality of their story but because tvoice acting or just the acting itself can't compete with real trained actor. As much as people love Hamill, I don't think what he does in these games can translate to movies very well, and if it did, I certainly don't think he embodies the Joker physically. All I was really saying before is I find the Arkham universe and their take on Batman a lot more interesting than Burtons and I was also kind of ******** on the acting from the Burton flicks

 

[DarkMagic]

That's conjecture at this point. Let me know when it's definite. Like I said, if the credits roll and Joker is still d-e-a-d, then all of his "appearances" post-AC will have been a great build-up to....precisely nothing. Thomas Wayne, Harvey Dent, and Ra's Al Ghul all appeared in either flashbacks or hallucinations in TDKR, and they were no less dead when the credits rolled.

Characters that are dead (really dead -- not coming back dead) have "appearances" in memories, flashbacks, hallucinations ALL THE TIME in fiction without it meaning that their return to the land of the living is imminent.

Spoiler

You'd think with all of these screenshots, videos and spoilers from people that got their hands on the game early there would be someone who has completed the game and can provide DEFINITIVE proof that the Joker is alive again, right? I mean, why go through all the trouble to post all of the suggestive "evidence" of hallucinations/flashbacks of him and still NOT show the indisputable piece of video, dialogue etc that shows he is alive? Well, unless of course there isn't such scene...because well, he's dead. If I had the game and was going through so much effort to "prove" that Joker lives again, I would actually prove it -- not suggest it. Not hint at at. Not "1 of 3" at it. Prove it.

We'll see for sure soon enough I guess.

 

[DiFabio]

Well the line is thinning between both mediums the more these games progress. I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison in like who's the better Joker, Nicholson or Hamill's voice and RS animation team but to me, these games can't be Oscar worthy not because of the quality of their story but because tvoice acting or just the acting itself can't compete with real trained actor. As much as people love Hamill, I don't think what he does in these games can translate to movies very well, and if it did, I certainly don't think he embodies the Joker physically. All I was really saying before is I find the Arkham universe and their take on Batman a lot more interesting than Burtons and I was also kind of ******** on the acting from the Burton flicks

And I agree with you, especially about games like Half Life, Red Dead Redemption and the Last of Us that are blur the world of games with their cinematic presentation.


The movies (not just Burton, but the Schumacher, Nolan, and eventually Snyder pictures too) only offer a mere slice of what these games have given players the ability to do. We're not just sitting down and watching a story where Batman fights the Joker and saves Vicki Vale, or goes up against Bane and Talia with the help of Catwoman. We're getting playable stories that allow us to fight and interact with pretty much every key character from the Batman lore, AS Batman (and now, Catwoman, Robin and Nightwing too). You can have one hell of a time throwing down 60 bucks and playing these Arkham games than throwing down 10 bucks to see a movie. That's not a dig at any of the movies either, they're different mediums that offer different things. We can't forget about the comics or books either.

And I agree with you about the voice acting too. As much as I love Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill from their 20+ year careers as these two characters, I always cringe when people say they're the best and most definitive when all they are is a voice recording in a booth. Not that it doesn't take skill or talent mind you, it's just, that's all they are, a voice. There's also the fact that they've portrayed different versions of the character over the years, not just one main one. You have cartoons with several different animation studios (of which several produced some shoddy looking Jokers) of several different series', animated movies, children's story book recordings, Sega games, playstation games, modern games, etc.

 

[jye4ever]

If this was an MCU game no one would even ask for proof.

 

[franpincho]

If this was an MCU game no one would even ask for proof.

Hell, if this was an MCU game, no one would talk about it.

 

[DiFabio]

That's conjecture at this point. Let me know when it's definite. Like I said, if the credits roll and Joker is still d-e-a-d, then all of his "appearances" post-AC will have been a great build-up to....precisely nothing. Thomas Wayne, Harvey Dent, and Ra's Al Ghul all appeared in either flashbacks or hallucinations in TDKR, and they were no less dead when the credits rolled.

Characters that are dead (really dead -- not coming back dead) have "appearances" in memories, flashbacks, hallucinations ALL THE TIME in fiction without it meaning that their return to the land of the living is imminent.

Spoiler

You'd think with all of these screenshots, videos and spoilers from people that got their hands on the game early there would be someone who has completed the game and can provide DEFINITIVE proof that the Joker is alive again, right? I mean, why go through all the trouble to post all of the suggestive "evidence" of hallucinations/flashbacks of him and still NOT show the indisputable piece of video, dialogue etc that shows he is alive? Well, unless of course there isn't such scene...because well, he's dead. If I had the game and was going through so much effort to "prove" that Joker lives again, I would actually prove it -- not suggest it. Not hint at at. Not "1 of 3" at it. Prove it.

We'll see for sure soon enough I guess.

Spoiler

Well, the videos are getting taken down by WB minutes after they go up and it is still early. There are more screencaps, I just happened to get sets on Gamefaqs before they were taken down.

There are supposedly more around that just haven't been up for long for everyone to see. I definitely believe the rumors that say that Man-Bat and Pyg are in it, that Batman is in danger of being revealed to the city, that Joker comes back further along in gameplay, without seeing screenshots for proof. I mean hell, just last night people were spreading the rumor saying that Joker would be seen throughout the game as visions and hallucinations then others would claim they were lying. Then this morning, we get pics of the Joker on different levels as visions.

I really want to see what Man-Bat looks like. I hope the mission plays out like the BTAS On Leather Wings episode and you're grappled to him as he flies around the city. I can only imagine the aerial combat.

 

[Nightwing52]

Must...not...click..spoiler tags

 

[pturtle]

And I agree with you, especially about games like Half Life, Red Dead Redemption and the Last of Us that are blur the world of games with their cinematic presentation.


The movies (not just Burton, but the Schumacher, Nolan, and eventually Snyder pictures too) only offer a mere slice of what these games have given players the ability to do. We're not just sitting down and watching a story where Batman fights the Joker and saves Vicki Vale, or goes up against Bane and Talia with the help of Catwoman. We're getting playable stories that allow us to fight and interact with pretty much every key character from the Batman lore, AS Batman (and now, Catwoman, Robin and Nightwing too). You can have one hell of a time throwing down 60 bucks and playing these Arkham games than throwing down 10 bucks to see a movie. That's not a dig at any of the movies either, they're different mediums that offer different things. We can't forget about the comics or books either.

And I agree with you about the voice acting too. As much as I love Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill from their 20+ year careers as these two characters, I always cringe when people say they're the best and most definitive when all they are is a voice recording in a booth. Not that it doesn't take skill or talent mind you, it's just, that's all they are, a voice. There's also the fact that they've portrayed different versions of the character over the years, not just one main one. You have cartoons with several different animation studios (of which several produced some shoddy looking Jokers) of several different series', animated movies, children's story book recordings, Sega games, playstation games, modern games, etc.

We finally agree

 

[DiFabio]

That's conjecture at this point. Let me know when it's definite. Like I said, if the credits roll and Joker is still d-e-a-d, then all of his "appearances" post-AC will have been a great build-up to....precisely nothing. Thomas Wayne, Harvey Dent, and Ra's Al Ghul all appeared in either flashbacks or hallucinations in TDKR, and they were no less dead when the credits rolled.

Characters that are dead (really dead -- not coming back dead) have "appearances" in memories, flashbacks, hallucinations ALL THE TIME in fiction without it meaning that their return to the land of the living is imminent.

Spoiler

You'd think with all of these screenshots, videos and spoilers from people that got their hands on the game early there would be someone who has completed the game and can provide DEFINITIVE proof that the Joker is alive again, right? I mean, why go through all the trouble to post all of the suggestive "evidence" of hallucinations/flashbacks of him and still NOT show the indisputable piece of video, dialogue etc that shows he is alive? Well, unless of course there isn't such scene...because well, he's dead. If I had the game and was going through so much effort to "prove" that Joker lives again, I would actually prove it -- not suggest it. Not hint at at. Not "1 of 3" at it. Prove it.

We'll see for sure soon enough I guess.

Spoiler

Well, the videos are getting taken down by WB minutes after they go up and it is still early. There are more screencaps, I just happened to get sets on Gamefaqs before they were taken down.

There are supposedly more around that just haven't been up for long for everyone to see. I definitely believe the rumors that say that Man-Bat and Pyg are in it, that Batman is in danger of being revealed to the city, that Joker comes back further along in gameplay, without seeing screenshots for proof. I mean hell, just last night people were spreading the rumor saying that Joker would be seen throughout the game as visions and hallucinations then others would claim they were lying. Then this morning, we get pics of the Joker on different levels as visions.

I really want to see what Man-Bat looks like. I hope the mission plays out like the BTAS On Leather Wings episode and you're grappled to him as he flies around the city. I can only imagine the aerial combat.

Welp, not long after these posts this happened.

Spoiler

Vid was taken down.


After Batman is unmasked, he's abducted by the Joker in a big reveal reminiscent of Hugo Strange in Arkham City. There's a side plot where the Joker's blood has been infecting people and turning them into Jokerlikes (there's footage of a doctor and lady out there supposedly).

"Can you hear me BRUCE. Oh don't act all surprised Bats you knew this was going to happen sooner or later."

EDIT:


Someone saved the footage that gotten taken down from YouTube and put up on Instagram.

Spoiler

https://instagram.com/p/4F2IZwOCGD/



Mark Hamill is listed in the credits as the Joker

 

[DarkMagic]

Spoiler

Like I said before, this is not hard proof of anything. You didn't really post any new information. More screengrabs and more text. The game character has a character profile about the Joker? No way! Didn't Arkham Asylum have a character profile for Thomas and Martha Wayne? They technically also appeared and spoke to Bruce during that game -- through a hallucination -- but when the credits rolled, it turned out they were still dead. Nothing so far about these Joker appearances that proves that it's not a hallucination or other trick. Heck I would settle for a definitive statement from someone who has played and beat the game already that says "yep, it's not an illusion, Joker is DEFINITELY alive when the credits roll on AK". At least that way we'd have someone taking a definite, non-conjecture stand on the matter, who would either be proven right or discredited when the game is released. What I am saying is, even if I am WRONG -- even if in the end, Joker really IS alive -- none of what you posted is really proof of it yet. WB taking down video footage of their game that they didn't officially release themselves before the release date doesn't prove the final outcome one way or the other either. In fact that's pretty standard. If someone had leaked mundane footage of say, Batman beating some random thug and then talking to Oracle -- guess what WB would do? Get that video taken down too. Not because it's potentially spoilerific, because it wouldn't be.... but just because it's unauthorized.