Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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One thing I decided when watching the Senate scene again is that I don't think it was pee in the jar. I think for that scene to be feasible Lex would have had to have filled it with apple juice or actual tea just to mess with her. Otherwise whoever "filled" that jar would have had to have been very dehydrated. I mean if that was urine then it was some dark "early morning" piss in a huge jar with no lid that would have been freaking nasty to smell for everyone sitting up at the bench. :lol

The smell might have tipped off Supes from across the room that something was "off" too. I think it was juice.

So, this is what the discussion has degenerated to? How much pee was in a jar?

I should be able to weigh in on this in a couple weeks when the movie hits redbox. :lol
 
So, this is what the discussion has degenerated to? How much pee was in a jar?

I should be able to weigh in on this in a couple weeks when the movie hits redbox. :lol

Dude, you just don't get the subtlety and symbolism of the jar of urine and how it relates to Bruce Wayne's martha moment and Clark's relationship with Pa Kent. It's all there, man. :dunno
 
Was there a theme for batman in this? I remember hearing the superman theme from Man of Steel right before he died, and Wonder Woman has the guitar riff, but I can't remember a theme for batman.
 
Was there a theme for batman in this? I remember hearing the superman theme from Man of Steel right before he died, and Wonder Woman has the guitar riff, but I can't remember a theme for batman.

Batman had this:



And throughout the film they use different versions of it.
 
Another "80's moment" was him grabbing the guy through the wall RoboCop-style (though maybe he did that in the TDK comic too which would have predated Murphy by a year, I can't remember.)

He did it in the comic too.

dkr1.jpg
 
The other day I was discussing with a friend whether or not Batman shot that mutant thug in the comic, I always thought he did, but he told me that he actually doesn't hit him, since the thug has no visible wound and the bullet hole in the wall and the blood don't actually match with where the thug was.

And I think he's right, I checked the book again and I remember thinking it doesn't look like he shot him.

He told me that Batman fired to scare the thug into dropping the kid.
 
The other day I was discussing with a friend whether or not Batman shot that mutant thug in the comic, I always thought he did, but he told me that he actually doesn't hit him, since the thug has no visible wound and the bullet hole in the wall and the blood don't actually match with where the thug was.

And I think he's right, I checked the book again and I remember thinking it doesn't look like he shot him.

He told me that Batman fired to scare the thug into dropping the kid.

I thought it was determined to be a hit but a non-lethal wound since Batman isn't accused of murder until after the Joker dies.
 
The other day I was discussing with a friend whether or not Batman shot that mutant thug in the comic, I always thought he did, but he told me that he actually doesn't hit him, since the thug has no visible wound and the bullet hole in the wall and the blood don't actually match with where the thug was.

And I think he's right, I checked the book again and I remember thinking it doesn't look like he shot him.

He told me that Batman fired to scare the thug into dropping the kid.

you have friends?
 
I thought it was determined to be a hit but a non-lethal wound since Batman isn't accused of murder until after the Joker dies.
It's pretty ambiguous, because the thug seems to leave a trace of blood on the wall, but the actual bullet hole doesn't have any blood.

I always thought he killed the thug until those little inconsistencies were pointed out to me.

you have friends?
Y-yeah, lots of em. He he.

I know g-girls too you know, man?

nervous.gif
 
Well Batman didn't technically shoot the thug in BvS, he shot his fuel cannister therefore autopsy report legally can't say that the thug died from a gunshot wound. :lol
 
I like a "beautiful lie", the freaky Knightmare/Mad Max track during the dream sequence and the Batmobile chase.

Nothing holds a candle to what John William or Danny Elfman did for the characters though.
 
I like the beginning of "Their War Here".



Here's another goodie:



I don't want to flood this with links, but "May I Help You, Mr.Wayne?" is pretty good too.

Does anyone know the track from when Batman is flying to the warehouse in the Batwing while shooting those trucks? I can't seem to find it.
 
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Okay I went through the UE in one sitting last night for a second time. Man I love this movie. I really do. In spite of some actually quite substantial problems I have with what is both told and not told. I think some very crucial information to the story is simply glossed over or (totally non-existent) and that the middle portion still has significant editing errors. I *want* to forgive those aspects, and I do, but I still both love the overall film while being somewhat frustrated that I am forced to forgive anything at all.

I'll lead off with some of my issues. If someone wants to call attention to the fact that I might have missed something that rectifies these then by all means let me know.

1. The lead-lined wheelchair. Did they EVER say in MOS that Superman couldn't see through lead? It's been a while since I watched that film but I don't believe they did. A huge gaff to demand that the audience either recall his limitations from the comics or a 1978 origin film that isn't even in the same universe. This is a reboot, you MUST re-establish both his powers and limitations for a modern audience. I thought having lead in the wheelchair was a great idea but what an oversight if the connotations were never established beforehand. I'm hoping that MOS did so and that I'm simply misremembering.

2. Lex Luthor's special bullets. Why did his security team use them? Loading them up with munitions that are so uniquely his seems like a foolish way to remain covert. They almost ruined his entire plan to frame Superman in the desert. It'd be one thing if they were special bullets that would dissolve so that it looked like people gunned down by his team were instead killed by Superman but they seemed to have no special properties other than being a calling card linked directly back to him.

3. What did the jolly rancher Senator hope to gain by giving Lex Zod's body and access to the Kryptonian ship? "We can help each other." How? I get that Lex is established to be this big billionaire wunderkind with influences all over the place and that generally speaking he'd probably be a decent ally to have but why didn't the movie give even one line of dialogue explaining what he stood to gain. I assumed that he wanted access to the kryptonite Lex was importing but again, with Holly Hunter directly and publicly opposing it I still feel like we needed more of the other Senator's plan. Or was Lex simply going to pay him 10 million dollars? Again, they didn't need to add additional scenes for such a throw-away character, just have one single line of dialogue hinting about what Lex was offering.

4. The editing of Lois Lane's scenes before and after the Capitol explosion. She seems to be having this big race against time to warn Superman that she had proof that Lex framed him in the desert but then when she gets to the barrier and sees Superman land she seemingly inexplicably gives up. Why not call out to him? He certainly would have heard her and dropped everything to listen to her. It's what he *does.*

Also during the post-bomb cleanup they have a scene of her motioning to a cop to let her across the barrier and he doesn't seem to dismiss her but then they give us a few shots of Superman landing with a wounded woman, looking at the devastation, and then they cut back to Lois and she seems quite content to still be blocked off from him. Odd and distracting editing choices there.

5. "The Bat is dead, bury it." Ugh. Still probably the single lowest point of the entire film. Thankfully Affleck somewhat redeems it with his cool response but man, what a bummer of an opening line in the first ever cinematic exchange between these two icons.

6. Kind of a random nitpick but how would a random flight attendant know Diana's last name? Does she fly Turkish Airlines *that* often? :lol

7. I now think it was mistake to show Martha Kent being abducted. We should have been thinking along with Clark that Lois was safe from Lex and then been shocked at the "Martha" bombshell right along with him. And then been horrified by the polaroids along with him as well. Even the scene itself played as if it was all a surprise for US, not just Superman. Did David Fincher show Gwyneth Paltrow being captured before the box arrived in the desert? No, you're supposed to let the audience "do the math" on certain things so you can have a bigger dramatic payoff later. We know that Lex has his goons all over the place and that they pretty much operate without restriction, we also knew at that point that Lex knew who Clark was, and then by obvious extension his mother. A big goof to spoil that part of his plan that I don't know that I've seen mentioned before.

8. And I get that this is probably just a personal preference thing but since Eisenberg is simply "Lex Jr." and not the REAL super-villain I think he should have been disposable. I think it might have been cool to have Doomsday rip him to shreds in horrifying fashion immediately after being born, at LEAST in the R-rated cut. Having him survive kind of made him feel like he had "we need him later in the Extended Universe" immunity which I didn't love. Or at the very least let Batman brand his ass.

9. I'm not going to break it all down but while I don't mind that Superman died, as I've said before I thought the funeral and it's accompanying melodrama (Lois getting the ring, etc.) was a bit mishandled.

Okay, those are pretty much my main issues with the film. Some of them are actually pretty big and yet I still think that the good pretty significantly outweighs the bad. I'm trying to think of other films where I feel that way. I'm thinking maybe Alien 3 or Batman Returns. Not sure. As for the good aspects of the film that I've continued to digest I'm going to list those in a follow-up post so as not to have this already long-winded one get any longer. :D
 
Pretty sure they don't mention the lead thing in MoS, I watched it a few days ago before I got hold of the BvS Blu Ray.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 
Okay I went through the UE in one sitting last night for a second time. Man I love this movie. I really do. In spite of some actually quite substantial problems I have with what is both told and not told. I think some very crucial information to the story is simply glossed over or (totally non-existent) and that the middle portion still has significant editing errors. I *want* to forgive those aspects, and I do, but I still both love the overall film while being somewhat frustrated that I am forced to forgive anything at all.

I'll lead off with some of my issues. If someone wants to call attention to the fact that I might have missed something that rectifies these then by all means let me know.

1. The lead-lined wheelchair. Did they EVER say in MOS that Superman couldn't see through lead? It's been a while since I watched that film but I don't believe they did. A huge gaff to demand that the audience either recall his limitations from the comics or a 1978 origin film that isn't even in the same universe. This is a reboot, you MUST re-establish both his powers and limitations for a modern audience. I thought having lead in the wheelchair was a great idea but what an oversight if the connotations were never established beforehand. I'm hoping that MOS did so and that I'm simply misremembering.

2. Lex Luthor's special bullets. Why did his security team use them? Loading them up with munitions that are so uniquely his seems like a foolish way to remain covert. They almost ruined his entire plan to frame Superman in the desert. It'd be one thing if they were special bullets that would dissolve so that it looked like people gunned down by his team were instead killed by Superman but they seemed to have no special properties other than being a calling card linked directly back to him.

3. What did the jolly rancher Senator hope to gain by giving Lex Zod's body and access to the Kryptonian ship? "We can help each other." How? I get that Lex is established to be this big billionaire wunderkind with influences all over the place and that generally speaking he'd probably be a decent ally to have but why didn't the movie give even one line of dialogue explaining what he stood to gain. I assumed that he wanted access to the kryptonite Lex was importing but again, with Holly Hunter directly and publicly opposing it I still feel like we needed more of the other Senator's plan. Or was Lex simply going to pay him 10 million dollars? Again, they didn't need to add additional scenes for such a throw-away character, just have one single line of dialogue hinting about what Lex was offering.

4. The editing of Lois Lane's scenes before and after the Capitol explosion. She seems to be having this big race against time to warn Superman that she had proof that Lex framed him in the desert but then when she gets to the barrier and sees Superman land she seemingly inexplicably gives up. Why not call out to him? He certainly would have heard her and dropped everything to listen to her. It's what he *does.*

Also during the post-bomb cleanup they have a scene of her motioning to a cop to let her across the barrier and he doesn't seem to dismiss her but then they give us a few shots of Superman landing with a wounded woman, looking at the devastation, and then they cut back to Lois and she seems quite content to still be blocked off from him. Odd and distracting editing choices there.

5. "The Bat is dead, bury it." Ugh. Still probably the single lowest point of the entire film. Thankfully Affleck somewhat redeems it with his cool response but man, what a bummer of an opening line in the first ever cinematic exchange between these two icons.

6. Kind of a random nitpick but how would a random flight attendant know Diana's last name? Does she fly Turkish Airlines *that* often? :lol

7. I now think it was mistake to show Martha Kent being abducted. We should have been thinking along with Clark that Lois was safe from Lex and then been shocked at the "Martha" bombshell right along with him. And then been horrified by the polaroids along with him as well. Even the scene itself played as if it was all a surprise for US, not just Superman. Did David Fincher show Gwyneth Paltrow being captured before the box arrived in the desert? No, you're supposed to let the audience "do the math" on certain things so you can have a bigger dramatic payoff later. We know that Lex has his goons all over the place and that they pretty much operate without restriction, we also knew at that point that Lex knew who Clark was, and then by obvious extension his mother. A big goof to spoil that part of his plan that I don't know that I've seen mentioned before.

8. And I get that this is probably just a personal preference thing but since Eisenberg is simply "Lex Jr." and not the REAL super-villain I think he should have been disposable. I think it might have been cool to have Doomsday rip him to shreds in horrifying fashion immediately after being born, at LEAST in the R-rated cut. Having him survive kind of made him feel like he had "we need him later in the Extended Universe" immunity which I didn't love. Or at the very least let Batman brand his ass.

9. I'm not going to break it all down but while I don't mind that Superman died, as I've said before I thought the funeral and it's accompanying melodrama (Lois getting the ring, etc.) was a bit mishandled.

Okay, those are pretty much my main issues with the film. Some of them are actually pretty big and yet I still think that the good pretty significantly outweighs the bad. I'm trying to think of other films where I feel that way. I'm thinking maybe Alien 3 or Batman Returns. Not sure. As for the good aspects of the film that I've continued to digest I'm going to list those in a follow-up post so as not to have this already long-winded one get any longer. :D

Good going Khev, you just convinced the RT consortium to drop from 29% to 20%.

1% for each of your gripes. :lol

WB thanks you for your love of the movie. :lol
 
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Pretty sure they don't mention the lead thing in MoS, I watched it a few days ago before I got hold of the BvS Blu Ray.

As I thought. Lame.

Good going Khev, you just convinced the RT consortium to drop from 29% to 20%.

1% for each of your gripes. :lol

WB thanks you for your love of the movie. :lol

Yep. :lol But those criticisms I have won't make any fans stop liking it and they only reinforce what the haters already believed. :) Okay, I'm starting on a breakdown of a lot the things I loved. Stay tuned...
 
As I thought. Lame.



Yep. :lol But those criticisms I have won't make any fans stop liking it and they only reinforce what the haters already believed. :) Okay, I'm starting on a breakdown of a lot the things I loved. Stay tuned...

Praise?...Where's the fun in that...
 
Okay, now for the good stuff. Howard Hawks has been quoted as defining a great film as "having three great scenes and no bad ones." Here's the thing with BvS for me. It kind of has quite the list of "bad" scenes. Almost *ten* just on my own personal count (though admittedly a couple are minor nitpicks like the flight attendant knowing Diana's name.) But still, by Mr. Hawk's definition its bid to be a "great film" is blown out of the water by its flaws. However...while some of the flaws skirt dangerously close to "deal breaking" territory they never fully cross over IMO. And furthermore the "three great scenes" criteria is also kind of blown away by the fact that there are a LOT of great scenes. So if it didn't have the bad it would literally have been this cinematic triumph of a mindblowing level *just on the strength of the great scenes that are currently present.*

So I'm going to list a few:

1. I really like how the opening murder of the Waynes is staged, juxtaposed with Bruce's finding of the batcave, and scored. Just an all around artistic and well done opening.

2. And then segue into the attack on Metropolis. ANOTHER great sequence right from the get-go. Now I will say this which I'm sure some will take as a negative: The vehicle action on the ground does feel like it was directed by Michael Bay. Bruce speeding through Metropolis feels reminiscent of the Hummer chase through San Francisco in The Rock. The Batmobile chase with its perfectly clean, current model year SUV's and lens flares galore feels like that first Bumblebee/Barricade night time chase in the original Transformers. I *almost* expected the Batmobile to change shape and start chasing the Kryptonite on foot. :lol

But I actually don't think that's bad! Just as Zack Snyder has some significant visual strengths so does Bay. And I kind of feel like the quiet moments of BvS have a bit of a David Fincher vibe (which is awesome) with the action overlapping into Michael Bay territory. A good combination! Just like the LOTR trilogy was kind of a marriage of Braveheart and Jurassic Park visuals with random Peter Jacksonisms filling in the gaps I think BvS was a bit of an amalgamation of Gone Girl and Transformers/The Rock. Zack even had the Batwing flying under the bay bridge like the F-18's going under the Golden Gate in The Rock. So stylistically I love BvS from beginning to end. And I do think that Zack added his own signature cues like the "300-esque" fighting of WW and a lot of urban scenes that looked pulled right out of Watchmen. But Zack has always been big on style and I know that a lot of people don't even want to give him kudos in that regard anymore. But I think it's an oversight to take all that for granted and dismiss it.

There are just so many great moments, way too many to list in that regard. Bruce standing in front of the empty Batsuit. The cinematrography, music, design of the suit, look in his eye, honestly I think it's one of the all time great Batman moments ever put to film.

So let's just get right into:

3. Ben Affleck

For me his portrayal really is definitive at this point. Not only his look and way he carried himself but his acting as well. And while I do think that *three* sideways glances to Alfred in *one* scene is a little much :)lol) that was more of a directing/editing thing and not on him. To me he even turned inherent negatives into positives. Like that kind of cocky/goofy "Ben Affleck" aspect of his own personality that he pretty much brings to every role. In BvS when Mercy, Lex's aide, finds him downstairs messing with the servers he actually projects his real life demeanor as Bruce Wayne's mask (and does it in a pretty, for lack of a better word, "charming" way) but then immediately drops the "Ben Affleck mask" and sullenly tells Alfred "I can't stay down here..." as the "real" Bruce. Brilliant.

And his acting constantly makes up for Cavill's deficiencies almost every time they're on screen together. Though I did like how Cavill played the whole exchange between him and Bruce at Lex's party.

Now I could continue to numerically list every scene or filmmaking choice I liked scene by scene but even I think that would be overkill.

I thought it was cool that Lex's security team burned all the bodies in Africa to make it look like Superman torched them with his eyes. And I liked the symmetry of "diving for Kryptonite" at both the beginning and end of the film. Amy Adams and Lawrence Fishburne's performances were great and appeared totally effortless. I liked the choice to make all the sex slaves non-English speaking immigrants so that they had no history of the Batman and were utterly terrified by him. I *loved* the creepy horror movie style security footage of Batman taking out Lex's guards when he finally stole the Kryptonite. And I can't say enough about the Knightmare sequence. Just fantastic. Scene after scene after scene of great stuff. Yes there were flaws interspersed throughout the course of the film but the onslaught of so many great moments is just too great for me to write the film off. I just take the bad with the good.

What makes the movie for me in particular and above all other aspects is Batman's heroism at the end. Just that he's the guy, the "human" who actually does the unthinkable and takes on Superman, the MOST suicidal of all endeavors (sorry Will Smith and your buddies) and PREVAILS, I mean that right there is the ultimate mismatch, the ultimate underdog fight, and he almost becomes the coolest superhero ever on that alone. But then you've got the fact that he's the guy who DOESN'T have the girl, DOESN'T have the mom, doesn't really have any hope for himself, and yet he's still the guy who gives everything he has in rescuing Martha and taking on Doomsday.

I think my single favorite action moment in the film is when the one general says that Doomsday is unkillable and then they cut immediately to Batman, alone in his plane, proceeding to take him head on. I love that ****! It's so hard to put these ridiculously powerful heroes into situations where you want to cheer them on and Snyder did it IMO. That's what these movies are all about. Great stuff.
 
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