Captain America: The First Avenger Discussion Thread

[jrice73]

Everything looks modernized.

Agreed. I can't wait to see this film but all the vehicles in that clip that was posted are all post WWII vehicles and not German made and its stuff like that which really takes me out of the moment. All are US made within the last 50 years--the APC is Vietnam era or just a little bit before as well as the transport truck (I believe a deuce and a half) and that other armored car thing looks like it belongs in Afghanistan battling the Taliban. If Joe Johnston and Co. truly wanted this to be "period piece" they could have gone to the same companies that supplied all the Nazi German vehicles for Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers and had them upgraded with a little bit of Hollywood magic to make them look like Hydra vehicles. From that clip, Hydra looks like they should be able to help the Nazis stomp all over the allies with that tech. I'm sure the context of the film will point out that Hydra is a small outfit and don't have the capacity to do just that but still. Nazi/Hydra stuff should like it came from Germany not off the GM assembly line.

 

[IrishJedi]

I wish they made a masked poster like this one... I mocked this up. but I'd prefer it with the head posted like the original poster...

Now, get rid of everything else except Red Skull, the flag and maybe the flying wing and it'd be a great 1-sheet.

 

[jye4ever]

Joe Johnston already said it's an alternate WW2.

Cosmic Cube > General Motors

Then again, so is Toyota and Honda

 

[IrishJedi]

Joe Johnston already said it's an alternate WW2.

Yeah, but that's just a cop-out. It didn't have to be that way.

 

[Agent0028]

It doesn't bother me so much that the futuristic stuff is going to be due to the cosmic cube. I really wanted a period accurate Captain America movie, but I'm not going to complain that they decided to go this route instead since it makes sense.

After all, Thor didn't have to be the way it was either. I remember hearing at first that the movie was going to take place entirely in Asgard and would end with Thor's exile on Earth.

This is the story they decided to tell. Maybe we'll get an entirely period set WWII movie in one of the sequels.

 

[The Josh]

They've done the same thing over the years in the comics. Why is the movie such a big deal. Sometimes, I wonder if some folks have actually read a Cap comic.

 

[IrishJedi]

They've done the same thing over the years in the comics. Why is the movie such a big deal. Sometimes, I wonder if some folks have actually read a Cap comic.

Kid, I was reading Cap comics before you were a twinkle in Jdad's eye.

It bothers me because the first IRON MAN film established a Marvel universe that was a little more grounded in reality. I think Johnston and his lack of a nut sack has more to do with the way WWII is portrayed in CAPTAIN AMERICA than anything else. They simply should have chosen a better person to helm this film.

I'm still going to give it a chance. I'll be at the Thursday AM SDCC screening with enthusiasm... but I can't help but facepalm some of these decisions. Mostly because they were ultimately unnecessary. There would have been nothing wrong with setting a Cap film in an actual WWII environment without tons of sci-fi elements more advanced than anything in the modern Marvel flicks. Hell, even in The Ultimates with all the weird alien crap the WWII stuff was pretty much historically accurate otherwise. Actual Nazis with swastikas... US Soldiers wielding actually WWII era firearms and equipment, etc. Why was that abandoned for a Stephen Sommers G.I. JOE aesthetic??

 

[The Josh]

Kid, I was reading Cap comics before you were a twinkle in Jdad's eye.

Looks like in your old age then you've forgotten somethings. It happens to old folks all the time don't be alarmed.

It bothers me because the first IRON MAN film established a Marvel universe that was a little more grounded in reality. I think Johnston and his lack of a nut sack has more to do with the way WWII is portrayed in CAPTAIN AMERICA than anything else. They simply should have chosen a better person to helm this film.

Iron Man is, as is Thor, and as will Cap. There are aspects of each film that will be more comic like. The guns and such will be it for this film most likely because of the cosmic cube. I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think its two far to more "comic" like.

I'm still going to give it a chance. I'll be at the Thursday AM SDCC screening with enthusiasm... but I can't help but facepalm some of these decisions. Mostly because they were ultimately unnecessary. There would have been nothing wrong with setting a Cap film in an actual WWII environment without tons of sci-fi elements more advanced than anything in the modern Marvel flicks. Hell, even in The Ultimates with all the weird alien crap the WWII stuff was pretty much historically accurate otherwise. Actual Nazis with swastikas... US Soldiers wielding actually WWII era firearms and equipment, etc. Why was that abandoned for a Stephen Sommers G.I. JOE aesthetic??

Well, at least you're going to give it a chance.

 

[Natrix]

Kid, I was reading Cap comics before you were a twinkle in Jdad's eye.

It bothers me because the first IRON MAN film established a Marvel universe that was a little more grounded in reality. I think Johnston and his lack of a nut sack has more to do with the way WWII is portrayed in CAPTAIN AMERICA than anything else. They simply should have chosen a better person to helm this film.

I'm still going to give it a chance. I'll be at the Thursday AM SDCC screening with enthusiasm... but I can't help but facepalm some of these decisions. Mostly because they were ultimately unnecessary. There would have been nothing wrong with setting a Cap film in an actual WWII environment without tons of sci-fi elements more advanced than anything in the modern Marvel flicks. Hell, even in The Ultimates with all the weird alien crap the WWII stuff was pretty much historically accurate otherwise. Actual Nazis with swastikas... US Soldiers wielding actually WWII era firearms and equipment, etc. Why was that abandoned for a Stephen Sommers G.I. JOE aesthetic??

A guy that can create a armored flying suit and shoot repulsor beams is grounded in reality? An enhanced super soldier with an indestructible shield is grounded in reality? A scientist that turns into a giant green monster is grounded in reality? A God of Thunder that can fly and has an enchanted hammer is based in reality?

It is more Marvel's decision than Johnson's since they wanted to blend realism and fantasy to be able to do their shared movie universe. It makes sense that if they are using one of Odin's artifacts to create advanced tech to bridge the gap between the fantasy and realism from Thor/Cap.If this were a true standalone movie and not building on a shared universe, it could have been a strict period piece. I am sure once this comes out and the Avengers comes out to tie all the threads together from the standalone films it will all be fine.

 

[IrishJedi]

A guy that can create a armored flying suit and shoot repulsor beams is grounded in reality? An enhanced super soldier with an indestructible shield is grounded in reality? A scientist that turns into a giant green monster is grounded in reality? A God of Thunder that can fly and has an enchanted hammer is based in reality?

That is the oldest straw man argument for the Apologists.

The point is that the world that IRON MAN was set in wasn't nearly as parallel and fantastical as the one CAPTAIN AMERICA is apparently set in. Yes, there are fantastical elements that force you to suspend disbelief, but it wasnever overtly sci-fi fantasy. There is no solid argument for why the WWII era (and its elements) in this film are so far removed from reality.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Johnston, Marvel, and company balked at having a film with actual Nazis and more realistic WWII era aesthetics in favor of a "safer", more commercial & contemporary set of aesthetics. It's unfortunate, because I'm sure this film would have the same fate regardless. Like I've said, it is what it is. But I sure as hell don't have to like it.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

That is the oldest straw man argument for the Apologists.

The point is that the world that IRON MAN was set in wasn't nearly as parallel and fantastical as the one CAPTAIN AMERICA is apparently set in. Yes, there are fantastical elements that force you to suspend disbelief, but it wasnever overtly sci-fi fantasy. There is no solid argument for why the WWII era (and its elements) in this film are so far removed from reality.

100% agree. I'm still going to see this movie 2-3 times though.

 

[The Mike]

Laser Weapons, updated technology and futuristic Sci-Fi additions are stupid in a film set in WWII whether its alternative or not. This film could have removed those elements, just those and been just fine. Anyone can argue the opposite but it makes them look silly. I will still see this happily and go in with an open mind but even if the film is fantastic those elements will still be stupid.

The point of Captain America was that he was an amazing leap in technology that turned the tide for the Allies in WWII and then was lost to time. What sense does it make that Captain America is the leap forward if there are already stealth bombers, laser weapons, massive tanks, fully flexible armor platings as well as a deep science division on the other side? The Nazis could come up with all of that but never figured out a Super Soldier program?

Can't wait until Friday.

 

[Natrix]

That is the oldest straw man argument for the Apologists.

The point is that the world that IRON MAN was set in wasn't nearly as parallel and fantastical as the one CAPTAIN AMERICA is apparently set in. Yes, there are fantastical elements that force you to suspend disbelief, but it wasnever overtly sci-fi fantasy. There is no solid argument for why the WWII era (and its elements) in this film are so far removed from reality.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Johnston, Marvel, and company balked at having a film with actual Nazis and more realistic WWII era aesthetics in favor of a "safer", more commercial & contemporary set of aesthetics. It's unfortunate, because I'm sure this film would have the same fate regardless. Like I've said, it is what it is. But I sure as hell don't have to like it.

I'm not an apologist but I guess I can see what they are doing looking at the big picture and don't have a big problem with it unlike some others. I would have loved a strict period piece too but that isn't what we are getting. I have accepted that and will enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Spartan Rex]

CA:After Credits

Spoiler

By SuperHeroHype
Jul 17th, 2011

Following up on last night's post, scooper 'KapoMonkey' has now given us a description of the scene you'll see after the credits of Captain America: The First Avenger. Read on if you don't mind finding out beforehand...

The after-credits 'scene' is not just a scene, it's the actual teaser trailer for The Avengers! Here is 'KapoMonkey':

The breakdown of the after-credits scene from what I can remember:

Steve Rogers is in an empty gym throwing haymakers at a punching bag before finally punching it so hard it breaks off it's chains and (I believe) through the wall. Nick Fury walks in and says something along the lines of "getting ready for the enemy?" and Steve goes "Well it's been awhile

*I don't know word for word exactly what they said. I saw the scene around 8 and I'm writing this at 1:30a.m. So yea I'm a little tired.

Then we see quick snippets of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, Loki being escorted in "handcuffs" by SHIELD. After that it's a long shot of Thor rocking a new outfit reminiscent of his Ultimate garb (sleeveless) in front of some roundtable of SHIELD.

Then basically after that it's shots of action scenes with each character - Iron Man in what still looks to be his Mark 7 outfit getting ready to fire his repulsor beams, Cap in some sorta battlefield, Black Widow doing some flips and throwing darts, Hawkeye shooting an arrow, Thor summoning lightening, a shot of Bruce Banner taking off his glasses.

Then the trailer closes off with really quick action shots. Couldn't tell what they were, no actual clue as to who the villain(s) is/as we only see Loki. You don't really see a shot of all of them together though I could be wrong about that and missed it. Can't wait to see it hit the web and get some screen grabs.

 

[Darkseed]

Can't wait until Friday.

.........

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Sounds good to me!!! Can't wait for it.

 

[The Mike]

They might as well call the Avengers teaser a commercial for the 2012 Hot Toys line.

 

[IrishJedi]

Laser Weapons, updated technology and futuristic Sci-Fi additions are stupid in a film set in WWII whether its alternative or not. This film could have removed those elements, just those and been just fine. Anyone can argue the opposite but it makes them look silly. I will still see this happily and go in with an open mind but even if the film is fantastic those elements will still be stupid.

The point of Captain America was that he was an amazing leap in technology that turned the tide for the Allies in WWII and then was lost to time. What sense does it make that Captain America is the leap forward if there are already stealth bombers, laser weapons, massive tanks, fully flexible armor platings as well as a deep science division on the other side? The Nazis could come up with all of that but never figured out a Super Soldier program?

 

[The Josh]

I'm not an apologist but I guess I can see what they are doing looking at the big picture and don't have a big problem with it unlike some others. I would have loved a strict period piece too but that isn't what we are getting. I have accepted that and will enjoy it for what it is.

Pretty much

 

[Agent0028]

I'm completely in the camp that I would much rather have a period accurate WWII Cap movie. My vision for this would have been Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers with Captain America in it.

I think a big part of the reason they are doing the movie this way is to set up for the Avengers, which in itself is sad. Think about it every movie so far has led up to this. IM introduced us to Nick Fury and the idea of the Avengers. Hulk showed Tony talking about the team and maybe their first threat. IM2 had a bunch of Avengers set up in it; to the detriment of the movie in the view of many. Thor set up Loki and his interest in the cube, and now Cap's going to tell people what that little box is.