Darth Tyrannus VS Mace Windu

[KitFisto]

I personaly love not knowing whether Palps let Mace win or not. It lets us geeks discuss and come up with our own conspiracy theories. One of the few things Lucas did a good job with on the PT.

While I agree to a point I will say that I don't see anything in the movie that would lead anyone to believe that Palpatine let Mace win. I think the words "conspiracy theory" are correct as that's pretty much all it is IMO.

But yes, it is fun to debate.

 

[DarthNeil]

Palpatine would have sensed that Anakin was coming--- he was holding off Mace and deliberately not going for the kill. He chose that particular moment to lose his lightsaber and to fall back cowering because that is when he's defenceless and Anakin is running in. (What would Anakin have done if he entered to find four dead jedis and Palpatine standing there with a lightsaber grinning? He would have automatically fought him and that's not part of the manipulating plan.)

Palpatine LET Mace get the better of him in order to conclude Anakin's fall just as he sacrificed Dooku in a similar fashion to the Emperor attempting to get Luke to kill his father in ROTJ.

Having said all of that I think that Mace would have defeated Tyrannous--- and only one thing could defeat Palpatine... a father's love :emperor (insert sappy music here)

 

[chewblacca]

Come on, Anakin beat Dooku, and Mace is a better fighter than Anakin. He just about beat Sidious who was the master of Tyranus, so I'm saying that Mace would kick Christopher Lee's old butt anytime. Mace is a mushroom cloud laying MFer who would lay one one Lee easily.

 

[chewblacca]

Palpatine would have sensed that Anakin was coming--- he was holding off Mace and deliberately not going for the kill. He chose that particular moment to lose his lightsaber and to fall back cowering because that is when he's defenceless and Anakin is running in. (What would Anakin have done if he entered to find four dead jedis and Palpatine standing there with a lightsaber grinning? He would have automatically fought him and that's not part of the manipulating plan.)

Palpatine LET Mace get the better of him in order to conclude Anakin's fall just as he sacrificed Dooku in a similar fashion to the Emperor attempting to get Luke to kill his father in ROTJ.

That's what had me wonder about EP 3, when Anakin finds Palpatine at the end of Mace's saber he never asks or wonders what happens to the other jedi. I know he was concerned about Palpatine, but he just walked past three dead jedi.

 

[KitFisto]

Palpatine would have sensed that Anakin was coming--- he was holding off Mace and deliberately not going for the kill. He chose that particular moment to lose his lightsaber and to fall back cowering because that is when he's defenceless and Anakin is running in. (What would Anakin have done if he entered to find four dead jedis and Palpatine standing there with a lightsaber grinning? He would have automatically fought him and that's not part of the manipulating plan.)

Palpatine LET Mace get the better of him in order to conclude Anakin's fall just as he sacrificed Dooku in a similar fashion to the Emperor attempting to get Luke to kill his father in ROTJ.

Having said all of that I think that Mace would have defeated Tyrannous--- and only one thing could defeat Palpatine... a father's love :emperor (insert sappy music here)

Conspiracy theory in action baby!

 

[DarthNeil]

That's what had me wonder about EP 3, when Anakin finds Palpatine at the end of Mace's saber he never asks or wonders what happens to the other jedi. I know he was concerned about Palpatine, but he just walked past three dead jedi.

Actually he would not have seen the three dead jedi (Kit, Agen, and Sasee-sp? as they were off down the hall on the right towards Palpatine's inner ante-room. Anakin entered through the main entrance and directly towards the main window. I know the schematic as I built Palpatine's office (well, midway through) for the 3 3/4 Hasbro line through NiubNiub's website and I had to do a great deal of research on the layout of the place. Anakin never sees the bodies.

 

[DarthNeil]

Conspiracy theory in action baby!

No conspiracy--- look at how apprentices (ie Anakin... possibly Dooku... and the attempt on Luke) are "selected". They need to go against their believes or take an action that directly negates the jedi code.

Anakin was tested and failed.
Luke was tested and succeeded.

 

[KitFisto]

No conspiracy--- look at how apprentices (ie Anakin... possibly Dooku... and the attempt on Luke) are "selected". They need to go against their believes or take an action that directly negates the jedi code.

Anakin was tested and failed.
Luke was tested and succeeded.

It is a conspiracy theory. Most dark side lovers INSIST that Palpatine is a God and cold never be defeated by a sorry, pathetic Jedi. I am not saying that's you, but it isa very large opinion by dark side lovers on many SW boards.

It's my opinion that it played out on screen and that Mace beat Palpatine. Then Palp's acted likea big Puss to con Anakin into helping him and it worked since Anakin thought he needed Palp's to save his woman.

 

[DarthNeil]

It is a conspiracy theory. Most dark side lovers INSIST that Palpatine is a God and cold never be defeated by a sorry, pathetic Jedi. I am not saying that's you, but it isa very large opinion by dark side lovers on many SW boards.

It's my opinion that it played out on screen and that Mace beat Palpatine. Then Palp's acted likea big Puss to con Anakin into helping him and it worked since Anakin thought he needed Palp's to save his woman.

I'm not a dark side or jedi lover per say--- I just think that Palpatine had a masterplan in place from day one (yes, it changed as things happened but you see with order 66 that there was a plan in motion). If he could have won Anakin over completely on the Invisible Hand when he got him to behead Dooku then he would have--- but the seduction took longer. Palpatine defended himself against the four Jedi (dispatching three laughably easy--- as I don't like as Kit was my favorite since I saw him in action in AOTC) but the battle with Mace seems prolonged and not one to end quickly--- I guess that's because he sensed Anakin was arriving and he saw this as the perfect chance to finally push him over the edge.

As I say, it's just my opinion and it's what I thought the first time that I watched ROTS. It's nice that this part of the PT can elicite such debate... and it's not cookie cutter logic.

 

[KitFisto]

I'm not a dark side or jedi lover per say--- I just think that Palpatine had a masterplan in place from day one (yes, it changed as things happened but you see with order 66 that there was a plan in motion). If he could have won Anakin over completely on the Invisible Hand when he got him to behead Dooku then he would have--- but the seduction took longer. Palpatine defended himself against the four Jedi (dispatching three laughably easy--- as I don't like as Kit was my favorite since I saw him in action in AOTC) but the battle with Mace seems prolonged and not one to end quickly--- I guess that's because he sensed Anakin was arriving and he saw this as the perfect chance to finally push him over the edge.

As I say, it's just my opinion and it's what I thought the first time that I watched ROTS. It's nice that this part of the PT can elicite such debate... and it's not cookie cutter logic.

Oh, I totally agree that Palpatine had a master plan and it all played out perfectly for him. However, he still took a chance on Anakin. He didn't KNOW if he'd turn or not. I think Palpatine would have beaten Mace if he could have, but he coudln't so he used that chance to save himself and turn Anakin.

Had he beaten Mace he could have used that to show Anakin that's proof that only the dask side was strong enough to save the one he loved.

Just all opinion and I am cool with yours. I just don't agree that he let Mace win and placed his life on IF Anakin would turn or not.

 

[user 1190]

Palpatine looks like he knew everything and had it all in control, but whats funny is he got lucky. So it was his plan for Anakin to get cooked, for Obi to allow him tie lie there burn and suffer? Palpatine looks like he had it all worked out in hind sight but in reality he got lucky things fell the way they did.

 

[Scarlet]

I think I've read somewhere saying that the only ones who can beat Mace are Dooku and Yoda.

 

[pixletwin]

Palpatine knew he had Anakin because Anakin (going to go totally geek here) was a child of Sith Prophecy. Palpatine believed the prophecy and no had doubt of its fulfillment. I also believe Anakin was apart of Palpatine's plan before Anakin even met Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Really before Anakin's birth.

Too bad we won't get that book about Plagius [sic] that would have gone into all that.

 

[Darth Loki]

Too bad we won't get that book about Plagius [sic] that would have gone into all that.

Did that get cancelled?

Back on topic, I think Palpatine could've defeated Mace, but needed Ani to see that the Jedi attacked him (even though we know otherwise). I don't know if Palps meant to get backed into a corner, but I don't think he was trying to kill Mace. Being backed into a corner certainly made it look worse from Anakin's point of view.

 

[Darthrazz]

Palpatine knew he had Anakin because Anakin (going to go totally geek here) was a child of Sith Prophecy. Palpatine believed the prophecy and no had doubt of its fulfillment. I also believe Anakin was apart of Palpatine's plan before Anakin even met Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Really before Anakin's birth.

Too bad we won't get that book about Plagius [sic] that would have gone into all that.

So, obviously Palpatine knew of of the birth of a sith child. Is it possible that he didn't know where in the galaxy this child was? He just knew that eventually he would come across this child?

 

[pixletwin]

First off, yes Loki, the book was cancelled. We all thought it was an April Fools joke, but we weren't so lucky.

So, obviously Palpatine knew of of the birth of a sith child. Is it possible that he didn't know where in the galaxy this child was? He just knew that eventually he would come across this child?

People often forget that one of Palpatine's greatest talents in the force was to foresee the future. I think Anakin was a seed planted by the sith somewhere out there, come to fruit, which he knew would be plucked by the Jedi, and was just waiting for it to happen. So I don't think he mattered to him where Anakin would be born, he just knew that eventually the force would bring Anakin to him.

EDIT: by the way, sorry to hijack your thread, Seth.

 

[Darthrazz]

I voted Windu, I think that he could eventually outlast Dooku, who seemed a bit winded after his first fight with Anakin.

 

[pixletwin]

I gotta agree. The Darkside is not more powerful, so Dooku wouldn't win by virtue of being a Sith (which I don't think he really considered himself as a Sith anyway). I definitely believe Windu was the greater swordsman, though believe it would've been a close match.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

Anakin's stupidity is the resounding theme across episode 3. :emperor

Anakin: "You underestimate my power."

Obi-Wan:"Don't try it!"

***VOOOOM.....VOOOOOM.....VOOOOM****





Anakin = Owned!

 

[pixletwin]

Anakin's stupidity is the resounding theme across episode 3. :emperor

Anakin: "You underestimate my power."

Obi-Wan:"Don't try it!"

***VOOOOM.....VOOOOOM.....VOOOOM****





Anakin = Owned!