DC Joker Movie (Non-DCEU)

[cerealkeller]

The Joker loves chaos. He doesn't care about rich or poor. He saw an opportunity to throw gasoline on an already volatile situation. One which he helped to create. Because to quote Alfred from TDK "Some men just want to watch the world burn".

This this this. Thanks for explaining what I was thinking about when my friend complained about this to me via messenger. I have not gathered my thoughts fully yet but my instant reaction was shock, horror, and absolute love of this movie. It's an elseworlds movie. It doesn't have to "line up" with established canon. And his using the opportunity of the state of Gotham is pure Joker and a very good opportunity for him to create riots and anarchy by being a symbol the desperate and the homeless and latch onto. Brilliant film.


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[cerealkeller]

Saw it Thursday night. Loved it.

I knew it was going to be good the second that 70s WB logo popped up. Phoenix's performance, the cinematography, the 80s New York setting, it ticked all the marks I was looking for when this was announced. It was right up my alley and one of the best DC films I've seen in awhile. Initially I thought Arthur Fleck was too weird and too stupid to be an interesting character. I mean that whole "I hope my death makes more cents than my life" stuff was pretty cringey along with the the first act feeling really, really slow.

For me, the film picks up after he kills the three Wayne yuppies and gets even better when the two detectives start questioning him. There's a transformation there, where the meek, pathetic Fleck character becomes the Joker. I totally bought it. So many great and genuinely funny scenes and moments. The children's hospital with the gun falling out of his pants. Him running into the glass door outside the hospital, him sparing the midget. In the beginning, he's a total loser. That whole stand up scene in the comedy club is tough to watch. As the plot unfolds and he loses the meds, finds out the truth about his past, and has his melt down, he actually ends up coming off as pretty charismatic and funny. It was pretty amazing how Phoenix pulled off that 180. The comedic timing on his part is actually pretty brilliant. Once he fully becomes the Joker with the suit and the face paint, smoking the cig, dancing down the steps to rock n' roll part 2, I was totally into it. It was pure Joker. Tricking the detectives onto the subway, cackling as they're getting stomped, then getting onto the Murray show. Most movies, especially supehero ones, suffer from a lame third act. Joker's was pure bliss.

I ****ing love that shot of him in the back of the cop car, laughing with glee, as they cruise past the riot and chaos he caused.



Thought it was going to end there, which would have been fine, but then you get that great Arkham Asylum scene. It's definitely one of the better films that gets better and better as the story progresses.

I don't pop into these boards very often anymore because life and stuff but after speaking to a few people I trust who did not care for it as much as I did I thought to myself "I wonder if DiFabio loved or hated Joker?" Glad to see most of your thought I felt the same. I believe this Joker because of the transformation in the character once he makes his first kill then carries through the rest. I actually believe this guy could be the symbol that causes a city like this particular version of Gotham (this is the most terrifying version yet) to burn itself down and people to kill each other in brutal ways.


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[e30ernest]

Nothing about this Joker's origin is canon.

This is why I think it's a good crazy man story.

If the film wasn't titled Joker and the setting was New York rather than Gotham, it would have still worked as a good psychological thriller. You could pretty much make JP a random nobody in this film. He could still have been just "Arthur Fleck", a mentally ill comedian who goes over the edge due to misfortunes in his life. It would still have been good. He did not have to be Joker.

It's so general, it doesn't need to be a "Joker" story. This film is another movie/story branded as a movie about the Joker. To give you a parallel, it's like how these cars were branded and sold as Mercedes Benzes, even if they were really just rebadged Korean vehicles from a company called SsangYong:

 

[ShadowX81]

I do think it?s time for WB to take Bruce?s parents murder out of the alley way at least cinematically.

No wealthy person private or with public persona would ever drag their wife and child down a dark alley alone like that they just wouldn?t especially during a riot as it was in this movie.

They?re trying to make these movies realistic right.

The wealthy and powerful have a ton of armed guards and bullet proof vehicles.

He's just a rich dude, not President of the United States. Most rich people live not all that differently than us; they just buy more expensive brands and live in wealthier areas. They aren't untouchable nor completely separated from society.

Hell, 10 years ago my dad once saw Donald Trump out for a walk by himself (his kids went to a prep school in my town).

 

[jye4ever]

So is the A Joker... or The Joker...?

I see him as a kind of Pre-Joker.

Spoiler

After all, another Joker -- Jack Napier -- is the clown who actually killed the Waynes... so Arthur is a proto-Joker. Like the Proto-Alien. The Joker before "The Joker"...

F Murray one small thing...

Yeah...

When you bring me out can you introduce me as Pre-Joker.

I respect that. It was way more bold than I really thought they would ever go. It kinda got me like I used to try to feel with really bleak horror or foreign movies when I was a teenager.

The closest a mainstream American comic book movie has come is maybe watchmen in terms of bleak.

But I am so into it ive watched that scene where he is on murray just to get that feeling again.

Infinity war is my favorite marvel movie cause that ending got me in the same sorta way albeit a way less violent version.

Anyways...
To play the ranking game is very hard w/ joker since he is so many things and all of those things can be charismatic and intriguing.

Nicholson is the showman
Ledger is the mastermind
Phoenix is the madman

And the lesser, in my mind, but still very relevant traits:

Leto the narcissist
Romero the jester

I love them all really.

Haven?t seen gotham yet But i was an extra in the pilot episode!

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Great Joker breakdown.


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[jye4ever]

RLM review of Joker:

Sloppy, Broad, Lacking any ounce of cleverness (from Jay).

Poorly written elevated by JP.

Ouch



But hey kids will thing it is edgy


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[Rixx]

RLM review of Joker:

Sloppy, Broad, Lacking any ounce of cleverness.

Poorly written elevated by JP.

Ouch



But hey kids will thing it is edgy


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Mike liked it Jay didn't cherry pick much?
26:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGA82ajAdo

 

[jye4ever]

Mike liked the last half.

Jay barely liked the 3rd act lol.




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[jye4ever]

Wow I wasn?t aware that JP initially wanted a fat Joker like fat Thor and it was Todd Phillips who changed his mind to make him skinny.

WB has announced the sequel:

Occupy Gotham Rises


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[rushmore223]

I appreciated JP's acting and the look and feel of the movie. I'm not sure if the other elements of the movie were all that noteworthy. Really hard to judge since the entire weight of this film is carried by Phoenix.

I have no need to watch it again, as the movie was quite depressing, and the violence all too real.

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[jye4ever]

Honestly while the movie had some very interesting elements to it I really found myself bored through the middle part of it lol

Violence doesn?t bother me the more violent the better it?s fantasy so I enjoy watching people get mangled in movies.




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[ironwez20]

RLM review of Joker:

Sloppy, Broad, Lacking any ounce of cleverness (from Jay).

Poorly written elevated by JP.

Ouch



But hey kids will thing it is edgy


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Those old farts don?t like anything. They whine about everything made after 1970. Screw them

 

[bboy]

Wow don?t even know what to say. It was perfect. So joker, so many moments , so many little things. Love the ambiguity, love the simplicity of the whole thing. The sparse use of heavy violence worked so scared. He went from being so sad and hard to watch to absolutely terrifying. Much scarier than penny wise. I love it as a stand alone but would also kill to see a sequel. Can not wait to see it again. Everybody is dying to see this thing now


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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

 

[Wor-Gar]

My ranking.
1. Ledger
2. Nicholson
3. Phoenix
4. Romero
5. Various cartoon versions

I'm with you on this.... though depending on my mood, at times I might take Nicholson over Ledger just for the colorful costumes and sinister glee with which Jack portrays him.

But Ledger's Joker is the most dangerous Joker of them all. So that alone elevates him to Boss status.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

RLM review of Joker:

Sloppy, Broad, Lacking any ounce of cleverness (from Jay).

Poorly written elevated by JP.

Ouch



But hey kids will thing it is edgy


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Yes, and they both think Marvel films are theme park rides for kids.

 

[jye4ever]

Bottom line for me even with WB glaringly copying 2 movies from the 70s and 1 from the 80s they still were not able to create a better Joker than TDK.

Marvel just kept giving us great Cap over and over and over and over and over lol






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[jye4ever]

WB 3 Step Formula for creating Joker:

1. Tax cuts for the rich
2. Defund Medicaid
3. Bully




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[Wor-Gar]

1. Tax cuts for the rich
2. Defund Medicaid
3. Bully

Now wait a minute -- that's the same formula used to create the killer in Cannibal Campout!!!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'm with you on this.... though depending on my mood, at times I might take Nicholson over Ledger just for the colorful costumes and sinister glee with which Jack portrays him.

But Ledger's Joker is the most dangerous Joker of them all. So that alone elevates him to Boss status.

Ledger's has a nice balance between realism and over the top movie villain, imo. It's as realistic as you can get while having the Batman character in a movie.

Nicholson is more movie/comic booky and unrealistically more dangerous then Ledger, imo. While he's not a criminal master mind, he was very smart, and had a chemistry background which he used to create the smilex, which probably killed more people than any other movie Joker.

Romero is in the same category of cartoony as Nicholson but even more extreme with all the crazy traps he created to kill Batman.

Phoenix is by far the most realistic Joker so far, the one that can and actually exists in real life, with no over the top plans, philosophical messages or gimmicks. He's the least dangerous when compared to previous Jokers, but I think he's the scariest. Even his makeup doesn't come across as unrealistic given his former profession, and the protesters using the clown image, like some people use the V for Vendetta masks.