The show rocks.... I Thought the young Joker was awesome.... I still don't get the complaint that the show is trying to be to many things... So far I feel they have nailed each character perfectly.... Even Young Bruce is as I would imagine him at that age.... Is he suppose to be smoking pot and only playing Nintendo? Bruce is suppose to be a genius.... I'm not sure what you guys expect from this show....
The show rocks.... I Thought the young Joker was awesome.... I still don't get the complaint that the show is trying to be to many things... So far I feel they have nailed each character perfectly.... Even Young Bruce is as I would imagine him at that age.... Is he suppose to be smoking pot and only playing Nintendo? Bruce is suppose to be a genius.... I'm not sure what you guys expect from this show....
A genius, maybe, but, nevertheless, a child. He seems more functional than many adults, after just experiencing one of the most traumatic events a child can possibly go through. It's like Carmen Sandiego and Don Draper wrapped up in one pre-pubescent package, and I believe the show is trying to be too many things because it is. Within 16 episodes, we've met Batman, Catwoman,The Riddler,The Penguin,Poison Ivy, Two-Face, The Scarecrow, The Joker, Victor Zsasz, and an assortment of others along with the various cops and gangsters of the city. It's like they're trying to keep 30 plates spinning at once, and it's only a matter of time before they start to fall over, one after the other.
Tonally, it's a mess. You've got elements of a procedural, they take over the top characters and set them in a gritty landscape, you've got adolescent versions of the characters interacting with one and other like they're the best of friends. I was one of the early defenders of the show, and I thought it should be allowed a fair shake before people passed judgement. The kicker, though, is that all of those people who were making those premature judgements were right about so many things. I'm a Batman fan until the end, and I am desperately trying to like this show, but, every week, I start to question the appeal more and more.
Ivy Pepper? Oswald's? Barbara Keen and Renee Montoya? Sarah Essen?Nygma? Bullock? Red Ski Mask? Joker/Jerome? Leslie Thompkins? Haly's circus? Crane? Hell, they even got Gordon wrong.
Sure Burton did wrong, but this show is constantly getting things wrong.
I like the occasional things, but some of it is incredibly idiotic. How the **** does a 12 year old manage to understand and take legal actions under corruption in his company's board?
Sure some things are fun about it, but hell even the procedural is boring.
I'm entire hope is that the shoe goes for 4-6 seasons and at one point we get Bruce leave and start of the next season have a time gap with Batman coming. This show will die quickly if it goes the way it is.
Got them wrong? Other than Bruce’s parents being shot has there ever been anything 100% set in stone this is how it happened NO questions asked about anything related to the Batman universe? I think there are as many different interpretations / stories about the characters as there are characters. This is their view of things and while it may not be some people’s cup of tea I like it and have no problem with it…. I just think they are introducing too many villains too fast.
Got them wrong? Other than Bruce’s parents being shot has there ever been anything 100% set in stone this is how it happened NO questions asked about anything related to the Batman universe? I think there are as many different interpretations / stories about the characters as there are characters. This is their view of things and while it may not be some people’s cup of tea I like it and have no problem with it…. I just think they are introducing too many villains too fast.
That's very true. I'd say for me it's reading so much more comics and seeing how it doesn't translate well.
In what you said about villains being introduced to quickly, I can see it. I mean I can handle the nod for Ivy, but what is her true purpose? She really has no role, except for her "father" which you could have said was any random Joe that killed the Waynes.
Some interpretations I can dig for this, hence why I said some characters, but other's I'm not big for. I like Penguin's version in this opposed to being either A: a rich child abandoned by his parents due to disfiguration, or B: a short chubby momma's boy who got bullied.
The thing I can appreciate about Nolan and Gotham is how some realities kick in, but things that don't really need alterations are? I mean I'll throw Crane for example, why is he trying to make a concoction that will render away fear? And this overdose is what catalyzes for Scarecrow? I see on the news about all this stuff about bullying and how much it takes a toll on people, well ****, there you go! Stick with the classic Crane being obsessed about fear due to be bullied for so many years. Granted, Scarecrow can't be taken seriously because like Oswald, both have a distinct character figure which drives their alter egos.
Like Batfan said, I sometimes watch and episode and I can definitely dig it, then they do something else, and it's just urgh. I also have other reasons about it, I mean if we see every serial killer or psycho seen on TV, it's always some person victimized by a mental illness. But that's the thing, not every person with an illness will just go psycho. That's why I like Killing Joke. Joker was never about killing people, he was the opposite, he'd rather pull the job without someone dying. First person he saw killed didn't trigger a happy memory! I think it's amazing that he became the Joker because of "one really, really bad day". Why he continues to kill is more of an obsession for Batman, not for just killing. That's where this one kind of got me feeling salty.
Don't have the kid already having a taste for murder, and mainly because he was annoyed at his "nagging drunken whore" of a mother.
Joker is a great character, but because he rolls against Batman. And they lose a lot of that relationship with this like Zasz with Penguin, or Riddler and Penguin, and a few are decent like Selina and Pam.
Wasn't really directed to you, DM, you are 100% right, it's for some and not for others. I just wanted to rant about why somethings can be very disappointing.
Got them wrong? Other than Bruce’s parents being shot has there ever been anything 100% set in stone this is how it happened NO questions asked about anything related to the Batman universe? I think there are as many different interpretations / stories about the characters as there are characters. This is their view of things and while it may not be some people’s cup of tea I like it and have no problem with it…. I just think they are introducing too many villains too fast.
I think you nailed it in that last sentence. I really do try to keep an open mind when it comes to different interpretations, but they're just doing so much that I don't know how it's going to last. Ultimately, I want the show to succeed. I stand by my statement that it's all over the place, in terms of what it wants to be, but I don't think that necessarily means it always will be; look how dramatically Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D shifted after they got past that first season hump. My hope is that they can trim a lot of the fat, if you will, for season 2. One of the problems with introducing so many concepts at once is that they don't all work, so, with that in mind, I really want to see the writers realize that you don't have to deal with everything, everywhere, with everyone.
Wasn't really directed to you, DM, you are 100% right, it's for some and not for others. I just wanted to rant about why somethings can be very disappointing.
I get it and that's cool. I didn’t read the comics much as a kid so I guess I am kind of going into this with a cleaner slate then most people. I watched the tv show and the movies and played the video games and read some stories (Dark Knight Returns, Long Halloween and such) but I really don’t know every storyline or every character so those things don’t bug me as much with the show since I don’t have much to compare it to. I see it like me not reading The Walking Dead comics until after the tv show so I wouldn’t expect anything in the show and be disapointed if anything was missed or changed for better or worse.
Ivy Pepper? Oswald's? Barbara Keen and Renee Montoya? Sarah Essen?Nygma? Bullock? Red Ski Mask? Joker/Jerome? Leslie Thompkins? Haly's circus? Crane? Hell, they even got Gordon wrong.
Sure Burton did wrong, but this show is constantly getting things wrong.
I like the occasional things, but some of it is incredibly idiotic. How the **** does a 12 year old manage to understand and take legal actions under corruption in his company's board?
Sure some things are fun about it, but hell even the procedural is boring.
I'm entire hope is that the shoe goes for 4-6 seasons and at one point we get Bruce leave and start of the next season have a time gap with Batman coming. This show will die quickly if it goes the way it is.
A genius, maybe, but, nevertheless, a child. He seems more functional than many adults, after just experiencing one of the most traumatic events a child can possibly go through. It's like Carmen Sandiego and Don Draper wrapped up in one pre-pubescent package, and I believe the show is trying to be too many things because it is. Within 16 episodes, we've met Batman, Catwoman,The Riddler,The Penguin,Poison Ivy, Two-Face, The Scarecrow, The Joker, Victor Zsasz, and an assortment of others along with the various cops and gangsters of the city. It's like they're trying to keep 30 plates spinning at once, and it's only a matter of time before they start to fall over, one after the other.
Tonally, it's a mess. You've got elements of a procedural, they take over the top characters and set them in a gritty landscape, you've got adolescent versions of the characters interacting with one and other like they're the best of friends. I was one of the early defenders of the show, and I thought it should be allowed a fair shake before people passed judgement. The kicker, though, is that all of those people who were making those premature judgements were right about so many things. I'm a Batman fan until the end, and I am desperately trying to like this show, but, every week, I start to question the appeal more and more.
You can say the same thing about Arrow and Flash, they've both had a ton of characters pushed through the series.... I'm just not sure what the big deal is with having a known character make a quick cameo, the whole point is all these characters do live in Gotham so you do bump into them now and then... You guys act like every character needs it's own full episode and then make the character disappear.... What Gothem is doing is having the characters appear throughout the series in a longer story arc vs one episode about them and then shelf them...
Bruce is 14 in the series, in another 4 years he starts his journey to becoming Batman, so I guess Bruce should be a moron until he turns 18 and then a light switch goes on and he becomes this genius (The Great Detective) ?!? Bruce's way of morning his parents is going after crime, that's the way it's always been in the comics even as an adult, so I'm not sure why it should be different when he is a teen...
You can say the same thing about Arrow and Flash, they've both had a ton of characters pushed through the series.... I'm just not sure what the big deal is with having a known character make a quick cameo, the whole point is all these characters do live in Gotham so you do bump into them now and then... You guys act like every character needs it's own full episode and then make the character disappear.... What Gothem is doing is having the characters appear throughout the series in a longer story arc vs one episode about them and then shelf them...
Bruce is 14 in the series, in another 4 years he starts his journey to becoming Batman, so I guess Bruce should be a moron until he turns 18 and then a light switch goes on and he becomes this genius (The Great Detective) ?!? Bruce's way of morning his parents is going after crime, that's the way it's always been in the comics even as an adult, so I'm not sure why it should be different when he is a teen...
Try again. Arrow's had quite a few DC characters show up over the years, but they've actually taken the time to develop them, rather than throwing them into one episode after the other. People aren't saying that every character needs one episode before disappearing, people are saying that it's ****ing ridiculous that we're not even through the first season, yet, and we've already seen 3/4 of Batman's rogues gallery. By doing this, by throwing all of these villains at us at once, and this early, at that, they're marginalizing the importance of these characters. Arrow has Deathstroke; Arrow had Ra's, but Arrow also had Arrow. Joker's the Moriarty to Batman's Holmes, but how the hell are people supposed to take him seriously when Gordon's already thrown him in the can several times by the time Batman even shows up?
The fact of the matter is that you talk about their appearances and say things like "that's how it is in the comics," but that statement is fundamentally flawed because, in the comics, Gordon isn't the protagonist. You consistently see him in the supporting cast as the guy who always calls on Batman to do his job when he's in over his head, and yet, here, why would Gotham need a Batman? I've yet to see Gordon get in over his head, and he's already interacted with several of Batman's rogues. At the end of the day, the thing I dislike most about Gotham is that it represents everything I hoped it wouldn't. I thought they actually had a story that didn't require Batman in order to tell it, but all we've seen thus far is a cash grab; WBTV trying to figure out how they can make a Batman show when the man himself is tied up with the film division.
I'm really hoping that they can find their legs in the second season and change my mind, but, at this point, it's looking less and less likely.
Try again. Arrow's had quite a few DC characters show up over the years, but they've actually taken the time to develop them, rather than throwing them into one episode after the other. People aren't saying that every character needs one episode before disappearing, people are saying that it's ****ing ridiculous that we're not even through the first season, yet, and we've already seen 3/4 of Batman's rogues gallery. By doing this, by throwing all of these villains at us at once, and this early, at that, they're marginalizing the importance of these characters. Arrow has Deathstroke; Arrow had Ra's, but Arrow also had Arrow. Joker's the Moriarty to Batman's Holmes, but how the hell are people supposed to take him seriously when Gordon's already thrown him in the can several times by the time Batman even shows up?
The fact of the matter is that you talk about their appearances and say things like "that's how it is in the comics," but that statement is fundamentally flawed because, in the comics, Gordon isn't the protagonist. You consistently see him in the supporting cast as the guy who always calls on Batman to do his job when he's in over his head, and yet, here, why would Gotham need a Batman? I've yet to see Gordon get in over his head, and he's already interacted with several of Batman's rogues. At the end of the day, the thing I dislike most about Gotham is that it represents everything I hoped it wouldn't. I thought they actually had a story that didn't require Batman in order to tell it, but all we've seen thus far is a cash grab; WBTV trying to figure out how they can make a Batman show when the man himself is tied up with the film division.
I'm really hoping that they can find their legs in the second season and change my mind, but, at this point, it's looking less and less likely.
We must be watching two different shows.... Gordon is the protagonist in this show, although he has not gone up against super villains at their prime, only young teenager versions of them..... Also Bruce Wayne has only been in a few episodes with little impact on the overall story, so your statement that they can't tell a story without Batman is false. Joker being caught as a teen is a far cry from him not being taken more seriously when he becomes older and more sadistic.... but if you want to get technical about it then the whole Batman Universe is a joke because Batman just keeps catching the same villains over and over and over and over and over again and they keep escaping Arkham Asylum over and over and over again.... Now that's hard to take seriously
BTW, I just read that Gotham got renewed for a second season.... Woot !!!
My whole problem with the show is the age gap between the eventual batman and the eventual Penguin, Riddler and the rest. By the time Bruce becomes Batman Penguin and Riddler will be middle aged. The site of a young verile Batman beating up on someone that much older than him seems wrong.
My whole problem with the show is the age gap between the eventual batman and the eventual Penguin, Riddler and the rest. By the time Bruce becomes Batman Penguin and Riddler will be middle aged. The site of a young verile Batman beating up on someone that much older than him seems wrong.
How old are Penguin and Riddler supposed to be in the show? I'm guessing they are mid - late 20's so probably 12 years older than Bruce... that's not TOO bad.
