Hot Toys- DX14- Mime version Joker... didn't see this coming!

[sallah]

Did you fellas read 'The Boy Who Loved Batman'? Great autobiography from Uslan.

Heck yeah man! Got a signed copy... Uslan actually visits one of the comic shops here in my hometown from time to time.

Sallah

 

[Walker]

Heck yeah man! Got a signed copy... Uslan actually visits one of the comic shops here in my hometown from time to time.

Sallah

That's awesome! You ever gone up and talked to him?

Oh, and I'm a fan of your reviews. Any plans for a new HT vid?

 

[batfan08]

I'm right on the cusp of pre-ordering this dude, I just don't know whether or not it'd be worth it to apply my reward points.

 

[DiFabio]

It depends, how many rewards points?


I've knocked down quite a bit on some pretty expensive figures in the past and it always feels great not paying the full price.

 

[batfan08]

About $46 worth.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Did you fellas read 'The Boy Who Loved Batman'? Great autobiography from Uslan.

No mate, I haven't.

I'll check it out though for sure, cheers!

 

[Something Sexy]

It depends, how many rewards points?


I've knocked down quite a bit on some pretty expensive figures in the past and it always feels great not paying the full price.

Ya you always got to weight between how many points you would have earned on a larger price item and if it is worth it to use some points towards it.

 

[jimmie_dimmick]

Since I'm in California and don't buy from SSC often, I'm hoarding all my points.

 

[Something Sexy]

Since I'm in California and don't buy from SSC often, I'm hoarding all my points.

Ya I got about $400 to spend.

 

[haytil]

He puts it together when Batman says "You killed my parents.... I made you, you made me first". That is when he realizes that it is Bruce Wayne.

I don't think Joker ever realizes or learns that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

He's just going with the flow of the conversation and mocking Batman.

"I mean, I say 'I made you,' you gotta say 'you made me.' I mean, how childish can you get?"

Joker's the one who brought up origins, not Batman - the way Joker sees it, Batman is just going off on a tangent, and trying to rationalize away the fact that he made Joker. There's nothing to indicate that Joker actually realizes that Batman specifically is Bruce Wayne.

 

[DiFabio]

For me it goes either way.

Part of me thinks that Joker didn't really know. He's backing away from Batman who is babbling all this nonsense and leading him into a corner. He even spits out blood or teeth and says "heh, heh, what are ya talkin' about? I say you made me then you have to say I made you, how childish can you get?" He straight up look confused and baffled at this. Maybe a part of him thinks "hey, maybe I killed this guys parents" but I'm sure being involved in the mob and a hitman for Grissom, he's killed a LOT of people.


Then there's a part of me that think that, yeah, the Joker put two and two together as he's being cornered towards the ledge. First Batman repeated the "pale moonlight" saying the Joker gave Bruce Wayne and now he's talking about how he murdered his parents. At first it might be baffling, but then he knows he realizes he's screwed.



Either way, the Joker laughs it off, as he should. He's not really Jack Napier anymore and he still refers to Batman as "Batsy".

 

[sallah]

I don't think Joker ever realizes or learns that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

He's just going with the flow of the conversation and mocking Batman.

"I mean, I say 'I made you,' you gotta say 'you made me.' I mean, how childish can you get?"

Joker's the one who brought up origins, not Batman - the way Joker sees it, Batman is just going off on a tangent, and trying to rationalize away the fact that he made Joker. There's nothing to indicate that Joker actually realizes that Batman specifically is Bruce Wayne.

...except he starts off that bit by saying "I was a kid when I killed your parents", which to me is a pretty strong indicator that he knows who he is talking to.

Sallah

 

[haytil]

...except he starts off that bit by saying "I was a kid when I killed your parents", which to me is a pretty strong indicator that he knows who he is talking to.

Sallah

All that means is that he can see that Batman is an adult, so if Joker killed his parents, then he too must have been much younger when it happened. It's not meant to be literal.

Nicholson's a good actor. Based on his confused, flustered delivery, I don't think the Joker is meant to have realized some deep truth. He's clearly going along with the flow.

 

[bloodgear]

All that means is that he can see that Batman is an adult, so if Joker killed his parents, then he too must have been much younger when it happened. It's not meant to be literal.

Nicholson's a good actor. Based on his confused, flustered delivery, I don't think the Joker is meant to have realized some deep truth. He's clearly going along with the flow.

So Napier, Pre-Joker, couldn't have killed a man's parents? Batman doesn't exactly say "you killed my parents when I was eight years old". Could have been a few years ago that he killed some guy's parents or a longer amount of time.

"I was a kid, when I killed your parents" implies that he knows exactly who he's talking to.

 

[sallah]

All that means is that he can see that Batman is an adult, so if Joker killed his parents, then he too must have been much younger when it happened. It's not meant to be literal.

Ya lost me there... Batman never gives him a timeframe as to when he killed his parents. So why would Joker automatically put a timeframe to it unless he suspected who was behind the mask?

It doesn't stand to reason that him seeing Batman as an adult would automatically make him think "oh, he must have been a kid when I did that so I was younger too" unless he suspected who it was- Since just saying "you killed my parents" isn't a point of time reference. He could have been a baby, a toddler, a teen, early 20's, late 20's, early 30's... It could have been a week before. Jack pinning it down implies that the Wayne murder sticks out and he knows who is behind the mask right then. Him saying "you killed my parents" might have been enough to trigger it all on it's own, or it could have been aided by the fact that Bruce Wayne has just re-emerged in his life and somehow knew that Joker was Jack Napier (as Wayne revealed in Vale's apartment).... Either way, that "I was a kid when I killed your parents" line really points to him knowing who he is.

Sallah

 

[haytil]

So Napier, Pre-Joker, couldn't have killed a man's parents? Batman doesn't exactly say "you killed my parents when I was eight years old". Could have been a few years ago that he killed some guy's parents or a longer amount of time.

They're talking about Batman's parents in the context of their origin stories - who made who. I think Joker realizes that killing someone's parents would only be meaningful or traumatic enough to make them "Batman" if it happened when they were a kid - i.e., a long time ago.

Adults, upon hearing that their parents are dead, don't dress up as bats and go fight crime. Therefore, Batman's origin must clearly originate from his childhood. Napier's intelligent enough to realize that.

Ya lost me there... Batman never gives him a timeframe as to when he killed his parents. So why would Joker automatically put a timeframe to it unless he suspected who was behind the mask?

See above. When Batman says "You killed my parents...you made me first," it's pretty reasonable for Joker to assume that Batman must have been a kid when it happened. Losing one's parents isn't a deep trauma for an adult.

I think if you go by just the screenplay, your argument would have more merit. But Nicholson's delivery of those lines make it clear he has no idea what's going on.

 

[sallah]

They're talking about Batman's parents in the context of their origin stories - who made who. I think Joker realizes that killing someone's parents would only be meaningful or traumatic enough to make them "Batman" if it happened when they were a kid - i.e., a long time ago.

Adults, upon hearing that their parents are dead, don't dress up as bats and go fight crime. Therefore, Batman's origin must clearly originate from his childhood. Napier's intelligent enough to realize that.



See above. When Batman says "You killed my parents...you made me first," it's pretty reasonable for Joker to assume that Batman must have been a kid when it happened. Losing one's parents isn't a deep trauma for an adult.

I think if you go by just the screenplay, your argument would have more merit. But Nicholson's delivery of those lines make it clear he has no idea what's going on.

Totally disagree. I don't think he would necessarily have to be a child at the time to have been driven into being Batman. And even so, that would have had to have been an incredibly fast bit of deductive reasoning to reach the conclusion that "since he said I murdered his parents, and now he dresses as Batman, he was probably a child at the time to drive him to this since his parents murder would only affect him then, so that must mean I was younger at the time too, so I will reply that I was a kid at the time".... all in a beat. It just doesn't make sense in the context of how fast the scene plays out. And even then... If he took all the time to reason that out, it would probably lead him to the thought of it being Bruce Wayne still (again, especially in light of his recent encounter with him at Vicki's apartment).

And I don't think his delivery in any way makes it seem like he doesn't know what is going on. He is just acting like the Joker (like DiFabio pointed out). The jokes keep going regardless of who is behind the mask.

This is the great thing about the film though... Not everything is directly spelled out for you. Some bits are left to our own interpretation.

Sallah

 

[kl241]

I'll still interpret the goon as a Young Bob instead of Joe Chill. That's always how it came across to me even in his appearance so that's what it will always be.

 

[sallah]

I'll still interpret the goon as a Young Bob instead of Joe Chill. That's always how it came across to me even in his appearance so that's what it will always be.

Like I said, that is one of the great things about the flick... You can interpret many things how you want. I was just sharing the info on what was intended in that case... but totally feel free to make it what you prefer.

Sallah

 

[Hologram AI]