1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 283 - Star Wars Episode IV: 1/6th scale Obi-Wan Kenobi

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I like the SSC sculpt, I like the HT sculpt, but it would be great if each thread could talk about the merits of each instead of constant mudslinging over which is best. We're all different.

Not sure any mud slinging has happened. What happens when someone is interested in parts of a figure but not other parts of that figure? Seems kind of silly to start a specific-parts only thread. I don't know about anyone else (ok, I do know about a few people) but I don't generally participate in threads for things I'm not interested in. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everyone in every thread, nor do they have to agree with me.
 
I can understand feeling hurt and insulted at someone constantly criticizing your own personal sculpt or a custom you've put lots of time into, but taking it personally when someone criticizes a mass-produced figure that you just happened to have bought? That seems kinda odd to me.

That being said, I don't see much point in continuing to criticize the sculpt anymore myself (or comparing it with the SSC figure). Everything that could possibly be said has already been said, I think.
 
Not sure any mud slinging has happened. What happens when someone is interested in parts of a figure but not other parts of that figure? Seems kind of silly to start a specific-parts only thread. I don't know about anyone else (ok, I do know about a few people) but I don't generally participate in threads for things I'm not interested in. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everyone in every thread, nor do they have to agree with me.

No, it's cool. Not expecting everyone to agree. Swapping out parts to get a figure one is happy with is part of the enjoyment of it all, as is adding new parts to the figures such as dioramas and the First Order flag you've come up with which is very impressive. I'm looking forward to the HT Obi-Wan figure, be good to see it in-hand.
 
LOL! Others will have it much sooner than me. I've yet to pre-order it actually, there are too many figures coming out all at once :)

Others may be too busy or preoccupied or fixated on trying to prove to themselves and ergo the world, that the sculpt looks like who they want it to look like, so I thought I'd put it out there, no matter how long it takes. ;)

That said, if I see parts come up somewhere at a good price I'll just jump on them anyway and will post some photos myself - if they don't work out, they get flipped. I just picked up 3 different pairs of boots in hopes one of them are exactly what I want for my Han Solo bash.
 
But don't come around me saying that something is what it isn't. Don't tell me up is down and hot is cold. Already stated I love your photos, they look great and make the figure look much better than it is in every way. But they don't make the head sculpt look like Alec Guinness, because it isn't him.

I'm glad you are part of the forum Pixel, even from my limited time spent on the board I can see that you contribute a lot of good stuff here. I appreciate it. My only critique here is that you don't give much room for the fact that to some degree "likenesss" is subjective; especially when a sculpture isn't a perfect home run. You have made it clear that you think that the sculpture in NO WAY looks like Guinness. Cool, thanks. But you don't leave it at that, and every time anyone says that they even see a little bit of Guinness in him you for some reason feel compelled to object as if they are telling you "up is down".

I think most of us agree that the likeness is off, but there can be a spectrum of legitimate opinions of just how off it is. A number of people like you believe there is absolutely no resemblance what so ever, a few (though if so its a very small number) may even believe it looks exactly like Guinness. But it seems to me that most everyone else is someplace in between.

When I look at the details I see Guinness in places. Even though his eyes are a bit too squinty the detail around his eyes, the crease between the eyebrows and wrinkles around the eyes and the top of his high cheekbones, the profile of his nose, his ears. The problem with the sculpt isn't that the details are all together wrong it's that the proportions of each detail is slightly different compared to the proportions of other details which throws off the likeness as a whole. This is one reason why to some people some angles make the figure look more like Guinness to them than others. The problem is no one seems to be able to have a conversation which explores the spectrum of likeness without you shutting it down by declaring that that any talk of likeness is equivalent of saying "up is down". Not everyone is so binary in their view of "likeness" of this figure where it has to be absolutely one way or the other.

It's disappointing that Hot Toys did not capture the likeness of Kenobi better, it would be much more fun if everyone thought they hit it out of the park. But they didn't and now people want to take time and look at it closer trying to decide if it has enough likeness for them to make picking up this figure worth their while. Everyone has a different criteria, some may think a "generic" Obiwan is fine even if it looks nothing like him, others may think he looks close enough to Guinness under the right conditions, others will simply pass. But I think it's okay for people wrestling with if they are going to buy this or not to try and explore the degree and spectrum of ways this may or may not look like Guinness even if you believe that it doesn't look like Guinness to any degree. You and others have expressed a more than valid opinion that you think it looks nothing like him and very few would argue that they got it perfect. I'm not sure why room can't be left for people who are in the middle when it comes to likeness. Hot and cold may be obvious but warm is more subjective - to some warm feels more hot, to others it feels more cold. Almost everyone agrees the likeness isn't hot, but please make room for those who may think it might be at least a little warm.
 
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I think Kenner pips it
 
A figure's likeness doesn't have to be the central criteria to enjoying it. I gave some examples already here of figures, from HT no less, that I think are some of their best EVER. DX05 Indy which has zero likeness unless extreme steps are taken to fool the eye and their FirefighterTrainee 2.0 which has a cartoonish resemblance to Joaquin Phoenix and paint only a 10 year old would feel proud of. Even the John Travolta which I think has a much more hideous head is an amazing figure - I just didn't want two of them and wanted the hose that comes with the trainee.

Here's the thing. I don't kind of think the sculpt is off and why would I bend my analysis on this? Put the real photo onto a layer, draw up line segments to every major feature on it and then put the sculpt onto another layer and try to resize it so it matches the same features. You don't need to change much of a person's face to make an image that is simply not that person. A couple of percent here and there and it's done. It might as well be someone else that when you blink reminds you of that person.

No matter what the sculpt looks like, obviously it took a lot of talent to make it and a lot of talent to come up with the paint for it (JC is great). I'd rather see someone give an honest critique any day than someone say "OMG, this is the best HT figure ever, it's 100% spot-on" - I don't think that kind of comment benefits anyone.
 
I think it's unfortunate that people choose to leave because frankly, they are fed up with going to a Hot Toys thread and are confronted with not enthusiasm for said figure and talking about its positives, but endless posts comparing it to some other figure they have no interest in with constant posts about how crap it is. It's like a stuck record, and when someone objects to it, they get called childish.

:goodpost:
 
I'm glad you are part of the forum Pixel, even from my limited time spent on the board I can see that you contribute a lot of good stuff here. I appreciate it. My only critique here is that you don't give much room for the fact that to some degree "likenesss" is subjective; especially when a sculpture isn't a perfect home run. You have made it clear that you think that the sculpture in NO WAY looks like Guinness. Cool, thanks. But you don't leave it at that, and every time anyone says that they even see a little bit of Guinness in him you for some reason feel compelled to object as if they are telling you "up is down".

I think most of us agree that the likeness is off, but there can be a spectrum of legitimate opinions of just how off it is. A number of people like you believe there is absolutely no resemblance what so ever, a few (though if so its a very small number) may even believe it looks exactly like Guinness. But it seems to me that most everyone else is someplace in between.

When I look at the details I see Guinness in places. Even though his eyes are a bit too squinty the detail around his eyes, the crease between the eyebrows and wrinkles around the eyes and the top of his high cheekbones, the profile of his nose, his ears. The problem with the sculpt isn't that the details are all together wrong it's that the proportions of each detail is slightly different compared to the proportions of other details which throws off the likeness as a whole. This is one reason why to some people some angles make the figure look more like Guinness to them than others. The problem is no one seems to be able to have a conversation which explores the spectrum of likeness without you shutting it down by declaring that that any talk of likeness is equivalent of saying "up is down". Not everyone is so binary in their view of "likeness" of this figure where it has to be absolutely one way or the other.

It's disappointing that Hot Toys did not capture the likeness of Kenobi better, it would be much more fun if everyone thought they hit it out of the park. But they didn't and now people want to take time and look at it closer trying to decide if it has enough likeness for them to make picking up this figure worth their while. Everyone has a different criteria, some may think a "generic" Obiwan is fine even if it looks nothing like him, others may think he looks close enough to Guinness under the right conditions, others will simply pass. But I think it's okay for people wrestling with if they are going to buy this or not to try and explore the degree and spectrum of ways this may or may not look like Guinness even if you believe that it doesn't look like Guinness to any degree. You and others have expressed a more than valid opinion that you think it looks nothing like him and very few would argue that they got it perfect. I'm not sure why room can't be left for people who are in the middle when it comes to likeness. Hot and cold may be obvious but warm is more subjective - to some warm feels more hot, to others it feels more cold. Almost everyone agrees the likeness isn't hot, but please make room for those who may think it might be at least a little warm.

I agree with the sentiment in regards to the sculpt. Sculpt can be anywhere from 1-100% likeness. All depends on who sees it and how they see Guiness in it. Well said sir.
 
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