Hot Toys - MMS130 - Predators: Berserker Predator (Full Spec & Pics)

[a-dev]

No, I'm not...but that doesn't matter as I'll never convince you I'm right

Jeez an answer for everything. Do you represent Hot Toys or something? Why the need to defend them so strenuously on this?

Well look, I can't with confidence prove anything you've said wrong because I'm no business and/or legal expert. However yeah as you say above you won't convince me you're right either. I don't quite buy that theres much of a pertinent and relevant difference here between 'promoting' and 'advertising' or again that a noticeable reduction in the size of the piece when the 'promotional' shots make such a point of the size falls under 'slight difference from prototype to final product' - especially with the wording they used - "realistic and accurate" 1/6 scale. Now, you can say that they may have a different idea about what realistic and accurate 1/6th scale is and I'd accept that. Indeed that was touched upon earlier in the thread.

The Berserker in the film is NOT 2 feet taller than the "Classic" Predator and, as such, should never have been as large as the Hot Toys Berserker Predator prototype originally shown in the promo images. Go back to the film and see for yourself how tall the Berserker is compared to Royce and the "Classic" Predator. Yup, he's taller, but he's not 2 feet taller -- he's *maybe* a foot taller..at max...maybe.

This has been brought up a few times and its true in the film there wasn't much between Berserker actor and the Classic Predator actor. Others have said that while this is the case the 'characters' are intended to be much bigger than they sometimes appeared with the berserker being a lot taller than Classic. Now I'm not sure if theres any written proof of that from the production but somewhere along the line I bought into it.

Either way it comes off as after-the-fact excuse-making for why the figure turned out smaller than we were led to believe it would be.

 

[Rotfish]

Heh, movie-accurate or not, that initial height made up for the lack of accessories for a lot of people. I don't think it has to do with accuracy necessarily, but with the fact that HT went against what they themselves promised and didn't do a damn thing about it. All they did was issue a BS apology after the figures were shipped out. I gotta hand it to them, the smart bastards. HT in the end, is a business. I just didn't think they'd use false advertising on an already 'iffy' release then swipe it under the rug.

This kind of thing could end up in court, I mean it sounds crazy (believe me, I know), but that's exactly what this plays down to.

 

[Preshea]

In all fairness in regards to the false advertising claims, this is the 1st time HT used an comparision with another figure shot to point out that they had addressed the height and porpotion issues that collectors had pointed out with earlier released predator figures. Now the prototype images do say final product may be "slighty" different, but what is slight exactly. With them specificly highlighting correct height they way the did in the promo shots.. Id say any changes in that are far form slight. Its like specificly featuring PERS but then not getting it with the version final product and trying to say its a slight change.

People are pissed and have a right to complain because they feel this isnt a slight change at all. IMO its a major change so I, for one, wont give my money to HT for this and I encourage all who feel the same to do more than complain. See it as another fail by HT and simply do not make the purchase. Otherwise HT will continue in this pattern with future releases in so many other figure lines to come. HT is slipping and we need to collectively start letting them know, not just with our words on facebook and forum pages but with our wallets too people.

 

[a-dev]

not economically viable you say?

i'm still ahving breakfast, lunch and dinner at whammyburger.

Exactly. If people can complain about flaccid squashed burgers that don't match up to the advertisements and be applauded for doing so - come on, who doesn't LOVE that scene in Falling Down - whats wrong with doing the same about a very expensive action figure?

 

[iampoch]

No, I'm not...but that doesn't matter as I'll never convince you I'm right. You're stuck thinking that whatever prototype a company shows you they have to deliver to you since that's what you were being sold. That of course isn't true as you're being sold whatever product is available to buy and, as the original prototype isn't available to buy...well, you catch my drift.

Yes, you are. HT accepts preorder, same as their retailers and distributors (and especially for ther distributors and retailers). In the latter 2 cases, the prototype pics are what's used to gauge how much they'll order from HT. Given that, pre-order is considered as sales, with the payments being accounts receivables. So, the proto images are being USED as sales tools. I mean, what else are they being used for? Ok, promotions? Promotions for what? To sell, of course. It all boils down to this: they showed the proto pic with the sole intention of selling and garnering enough for preorders from their distributors and retailers and a few customers in toyhunters. So, the "final product may vary" defense? That's hogwash.

Likewise, this is a great example of why some fans (myself included) never ever ever pre-order figures. For anyone to pre-order a figure based completely and only on images of a prototype and NOT on images of a final product means the buyer is running the risk of the product not turning out the way they expected.

Previously, it wasn't a big concern when pre-ordering from HT. When they say "final product may vary" it usually meant that the changes were for the better. DEFINITELY not in this case.

The Berserker in the film is NOT 2 feet taller than the "Classic" Predator and, as such, should never have been as large as the Hot Toys Berserker Predator prototype originally shown in the promo images. Go back to the film and see for yourself how tall the Berserker is compared to Royce and the "Classic" Predator. Yup, he's taller, but he's not 2 feet taller -- he's *maybe* a foot taller..at max...maybe.

In 1/6th scale, that means the Hot Toys MMS Berserker should be at max 1" taller if not .75" taller than the "Classic" Predator as per the dimensions in the film...which is about what the Berserker is in production.

What is being released seems to be more "film accurate" than what was originally shown in the prototype pictures and just because it was originally pitched a certain way doesn't mean Hot Toys is required to release it that way. Yes, the company has an obligation to live up to certain standards, but I'm fairly certain this does indeed count as a "slight" change. If they had given him a third arm or a second head, I'd consider that a change worth invading China over...

Well, this is a debate for movieverse accuracy vs. movie prop accuracy. HT seems to go for the former more often than not (as seen in the promo pics), then apologists use the latter for defense. I used to do that. Not anymore.

And it's not a slight change. The height difference is a lot.

The "vocal minority" of folks on here who are griping and complaining about the Berserker's height will do one of two things:

- gripe and complain and STILL buy the figure

- gripe and complain and NOT buy the figure

It's really that simple...

I'm sorry, but people complaining aren't a vocal minority. Those defending HT's moves in this case are. And it's not just here. Anywhere from other forums to their facebook page have these "vocal minorities" outnumber the apologists.

No one should be crying "false advertising" at all about this since the images you're referring to were NOT advertisements. It was a promotional image shown to PROMOTE the figure. I can see how you can interpret it as misleading, but it was not nor could be "False advertising."

Wait, I'm sorry but this doesn't add up. Promo pics ARE advertisements.

"Advertising is a form of communication intended to persuade an audience (viewers, readers or listeners) to purchase or take some action upon products, ideals, or services. It includes the name of a product or service and how that product or service could benefit the consumer, to persuade a target market to purchase or to consume that particular brand. "

I bolded the operative words. I think you're confused in separating promotional ads from advertisements:

"Online advertising
Online advertising is a form of promotion that uses the Internet and World Wide Web for the expressed purpose of delivering marketing messages to attract customers. "

And, why do they want to attract customers? To sell.

This is where you're wrong as what you're being offered is what's for sale and what's for sale is NOT the prototype, but the production piece. Thus, that's the ONLY Berserker Hot Toys figure being made available for sale and, as such, the changes that were made were deemed in the realm of "differ slightly."

Again, you're wrong. They use proto images to advertise, which leads to sales. Also read the thread again, there are numerous evidences that HT is selling their products based on the very noticeable size difference.

Again, this is what is called a "bait and switch" tactic, and if you find nothing wrong there, then there must be something wrong with you as a consumer. Ok, let me ask you: if this were another company for a completely different product, wouldn't you be pissed over bait-and-switch tactics? If you say no, then you're either lying or you must be one very gullible customer. If you are, then I have a few items I'd like to sell you. I'll show you some pictures, but the actual products may vary.

And considering I've seen drastic changes WAY worse than this on a prototype, I think it's almost funny to see how heated fans are getting about this. Really? Really? Aren't some of you out of work or divorced or behind on car payments or something? Aren't there more desperate things to be worried about?

Anyhow...

This is fun. And when the chaos gets to the USA, I'm ready - just got my Mossberg 590A1 out of storage and ready for action!

Wow! way to go, Mr. Apologist. But shelling out $200 isn't small change, nor something not to get pissed about. And also:

"Aren't some of you out of work or divorced or behind on car payments or something? Aren't there more desperate things to be worried about?"

If people ave that sort of problem, I'll have to assume that they don't have the time to go to forums at the moment.

BTW when have customer complaints been invalid? When the one being complained about is Hot Toys? That's mighty hypocritical.

 

[Preshea]

Jeez an answer for everything. Do you represent Hot Toys or something? Why the need to defend them so strenuously on this?

Well look, I can't with confidence prove anything you've said wrong because I'm no business and/or legal expert. However yeah as you say above you won't convince me you're right either. I don't quite buy that theres much of a pertinent and relevant difference here between 'promoting' and 'advertising' or again that a noticeable reduction in the size of the piece when the 'promotional' shots make such a point of the size falls under 'slight difference from prototype to final product' - especially with the wording they used - "realistic and accurate" 1/6 scale. Now, you can say that they may have a different idea about what realistic and accurate 1/6th scale is and I'd accept that. Indeed that was touched upon earlier in the thread.



This has been brought up a few times and its true in the film there wasn't much between Berserker actor and the Classic Predator actor. Others have said that while this is the case the 'characters' are intended to be much bigger than they sometimes appeared with the berserker being a lot taller than Classic. Now I'm not sure if theres any written proof of that from the production but somewhere along the line I bought into it.

Either way it comes off as after-the-fact excuse-making for why the figure turned out smaller than we were led to believe it would be.

And you know what bro u dont have to be. Gut instinct and common sense tells u when somthing isnt right and this simply isnt.

 

[iampoch]

And you know what bro u dont have to be. Gut instinct and common sense tells u when somthing isnt right and this simply isnt.

I really hope the apologists digest this.

 

[Rotfish]

And let's not forget that thick and wide torso looks ridiculous on a shorter figure. Back when he was huge, it looked great. Now... wow.

 

[Marvel-ous]

Exactly. If people can complain about flaccid squashed burgers that don't match up to the advertisements and be applauded for doing so - come on, who doesn't LOVE that scene in Falling Down - whats wrong with doing the same about a very expensive action figure?

Yeah, you're right. But try complaining to people who actually care and who can do something about it. Not to people who just don't give a _____ as to why a doll is a few millimeters shorter than initial reveals which are, after all, prototypes.

 

[iampoch]

Yeah, you're right. But try complaining to people who actually care and who can do something about it. Not to people who just don't give a _____ as to why a doll is a few millimeters shorter than initial reveals which are, after all, prototypes.

HT monitors forums. look at how the falcon for Falconer turned out.

 

[a-dev]

I might cancel. I do however like Royce and the Falconer. Falconer will probably end up the same size but if we're to believe that concept pic posted previously he's not supposed to be a giant like Berserker - add to that his head looks more proportional.. if we can believe the prototype pics.

A Hot Toys Predators collection with just Royce and Falconer though...

 

[Rotfish]

Yeah, you're right. But try complaining to people who actually care and who can do something about it. Not to people who just don't give a _____ as to why a doll is a few millimeters shorter than initial reveals which are, after all, prototypes.

I think it's pretty clear this isn't a few millimeters.

if we can believe the prototype pics.

I don't know what to believe anymore!!!!!

Leaves to cuddle with the only HT Pred he'll ever truly love, Celtic.

 

[a-dev]

Yeah, you're right. But try complaining to people who actually care and who can do something about it. Not to people who just don't give a _____ as to why a doll is a few millimeters shorter than initial reveals which are, after all, prototypes.

We've been over that countless times now (marked in bold) but yeah I understand the repetition must get tiresome to the neutrals, I've been a neutral myself on a few other bad talking points with some figures.

 

[iampoch]

I might cancel. I do however like Royce and the Falconer. Falconer will probably end up the same size but if we're to believe that concept pic posted previously he's not supposed to be a giant like Berserker - add to that his head looks more proportional.. if we can believe the prototype pics.

A Hot Toys Predators collection with just Royce and Falconer though...

Well, as the apologists over here are trying to say: The cake is a lie. The cake being the proto pics.

I'll only get Falconer if they bring down the price. With a laughable amount of articulation, fewer accessories, and reduced height, this isn't worth $190.

We've been over that countless times now (marked in bold) but yeah I understand the repetition must get tiresome to the neutrals, I've been a neutral myself on a few other bad talking points with some figures.

It's really funny (and quite sad at the same time) how apologists use the "prototype" card.

 

[fosing]

i believe HT learned a significant thing being "big dawg" in 1:6....that despite their screw ups(not an isolated case for the predator line), and customer complaints...it will still sell like hot cakes.

Hot Toys: what me worry?

to be honest, if this is your first HT predator or prefer to display him with rest of the older preds(and dont mind the SIZE issue regarding being distinctively SUPER). heck, it would look good displayed with royce. go for it.

sux to be me right now i guess. i signed this pred up in my clan for one purpose. as i was expecting a big daddy predator, a brute...instead i get a regular pred. i could have diverted the funds to get scar or celtic, or an expensive hooker my mind ponders.

but hey, thats life.

you may think you just got screwed, but others tolerate it, while some just dont give a damn and others will even call it a blessing.

 

[iampoch]

i could have diverted the funds to get scar or celtic, or an expensive hooker my mind ponders.

Classmates and Starfleet FTW!

 

[Spanbauer]

I'd like to see more pics. I've checked all of the usual forums and it doesn't seem anyone else has picked him up. There's just not enough photos out there in dynamic poses like the ones OMG posted several pages back.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

I'm still undecided about whether to get this. On the one hand, I have no other HT Preds so he'd look fine on his own or next to my other 1/6 figures. Plus the figure itself is really nice (despite the inaccurate sized and sculpted head and bio) and HT Preds allways go up in value and I predict this one will be no different not and like I said, this would be my first HT Pred and that is also a plus and the lack of accessories and shorter height while a bummer don't really bother me as much as it should as there arn't very many accessories for him to come with plus his shorter height is technically screen accurate. On the other hand, the inaccurate head and bio mentioned does really bother me especially since HT had ample time to correct it but chose not to. Plus the $200 price tag (I know it's cheaper a few places but still) on a figure without as many accesories (I know I said there really wern't many accessories to give him as it is but you get what I mean) and as inaccurate as this is unjustified imo. Even if just the head and bio themselves were molded bigger and had no sculpt changes I'd still bes satisfied.

It's funny, this morning I was feeling good, lookingf at OMG's pics thinking this isn't too bad but then I watched Preds again and then started thinking about inaccuracies this figure has was like a slap in the face. I am neither an apologist or defender of HT. I love most of HT's products and they are without a doubt the king of the 1/6 jungle but when they release a product that is not up to standard (at least not mine) I'm gonna voice my opinion...... over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

 

[fosing]

I'd like to see more pics. I've checked all of the usual forums and it doesn't seem anyone else has picked him up. There's just not enough photos out there in dynamic poses like the ones OMG posted several pages back.

i think this one is suited to be displayed standing pretty. the fixed/un-articulated torso alone would look funny with squats or kneel poses, IMO.

 

[iampoch]

I'm still undecided about whether to get this. On the one hand, I have no other HT Preds so he'd look fine on his own or next to my other 1/6 figures. Plus the figure itself is really nice (despite the inaccurate sized and sculpted head and bio) and HT Preds allways go up in value and I predict this one will be no different not and like I said, this would be my first HT Pred and that is also a plus and the lack of accessories and shorter height while a bummer don't really bother me as much as it should as there arn't very many accessories for him to come with plus his shorter height is technically screen accurate. On the other hand, the inaccurate head and bio mentioned does really bother me especially since HT had ample time to correct it but chose not to. Plus the $200 price tag (I know it's cheaper a few places but still) on a figure without as many accesories (I know I said there really wern't many accessories to give him as it is but you get what I mean) and as inaccurate as this is unjustified imo. Even if just the head and bio themselves were molded bigger and had no sculpt changes I'd still bes satisfied.

It's funny, this morning I was feeling good, lookingf at OMG's pics thinking this isn't too bad but then I watched Preds again and then started thinking about inaccuracies this figure has was like a slap in the face. I am neither an apologist or defender of HT. I love most of HT's products and they are without a doubt the king of the 1/6 jungle but when they release a product that is not up to standard (at least not mine) I'm gonna voice my opinion...... over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

I really wouldn't have minded the nitpics as it still does look great, but their asking price is still too much. And their half-@$$ed apology isn't helping either. If they shave off $20-$30 (even if just via gift cert) then it would be great and I don't think the detractors would mind. I hope they take action in the international release.