Hot Toys : New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming

[DiFabio]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Exactly. Is that not clear in the film?
Why would you like that?


The point is even the criminals respect life.

In reality, one or both of those boats would have been blown sky high. We're supposed to believe that Gotham's worst (remember, these were supposedly the worst criminals in Gotham, put away by Dent himself) wouldn't pull a trigger and that a gang, after making the decision not to detonate would take a breather and pray? Bull____.

The ending is fine as is, but it would be interesting if it played out differently, with no hope. I remember being spoiled early on about the ferry boats but I wasn't exactly sure what the outcome was going to be. During the film, I really expected that businessman to detonate the boat, only to have it be reversed and the civilian boat blow up. The Joker, distracted by the explosion would be subdued just like the film, but I guess some of the dialogue would change.

I mean, it was the second act, why not just go for a hopeless and bleak ending but have a more uplifting, triumphant conclusion for TDKR?

If we're supposed to believe that Gotham is the worst, most corruptible city in the world, than there's no doubt in my mind that despite Batman's efforts that ____ would have went down.

I get it, yeah, "THIIIIIS CITY, JUST SHOWED YOU, THAT IT'S FUUUUULLLLL OF PEOPLE READY TO BELIEVE IN GOOOOOOOOOOOD" but that just isn't how it is.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Or at least a shot of Tiny Lister hanging in his cell after he realized how many cons he'd pissed off when he risked their lives with his little stunt.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

But when you've got the Nurse Joker surrounded by the Bank Robber Joker, the Police Joker, and the clown Joker, it's just another outfit and variant, and doesn't look weird at all.

Beyond that, if you've got all the other Batman figures as well, it fits even better!

The context is the collection - a Nurse Joker isn't supposed to be on its own. I would suspect only collectors of Ledger's Joker specifically, or multiple Batman figures in general, would enjoy a Nurse Joker, just as only they might enjoy a Two-Face or multiple Batman outfits. But if you only collect one or two figures from each movie, and collect figures from all kinds of different movies, then I can totally see thinking a Nurse Joker might be weird.

I've had many guests compliment me on the Nurse Joker specifically - not because it's weird, but because it's cool see the visual of such a small, but very memorable, moment of the film. They "get" it, because it's surrounded by 30-odd figures of other characters from the movie.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

In reality, one or both of those boats would have been blown sky high. We're supposed to believe that Gotham's worst (remember, these were supposedly the worst criminals in Gotham, put away by Dent himself) wouldn't pull a trigger and that a gang, after making the decision not to detonate would take a breather and pray? Bull____.

The ending is fine as is, but it would be interesting if it played out differently, with no hope. I remember being spoiled early on about the ferry boats but I wasn't exactly sure what the outcome was going to be. During the film, I really expected that businessman to detonate the boat, only to have it be reversed and the civilian boat blow up. The Joker, distracted by the explosion would be subdued just like the film, but I guess some of the dialogue would change.

I mean, it was the second act, why not just go for a hopeless and bleak ending but have a more uplifting, triumphant conclusion for TDKR?

If we're supposed to believe that Gotham is the worst, most corruptible city in the world, than there's no doubt in my mind that despite Batman's efforts that ____ would have went down.

I get it, yeah, "THIIIIIS CITY, JUST SHOWED YOU, THAT IT'S FUUUUULLLLL OF PEOPLE READY TO BELIEVE IN GOOOOOOOOOOOD" but that just isn't how it is.

I understand the point your making, but I'm sorry, I just can't let Joker be even partly right. The ferry scene played out perfectly for me.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I understand the point your making, but I'm sorry, I just can't let Joker be even partly right. The ferry scene played out perfectly for me.

Well, he was right about Dent. Gordon and Batman just covered it up.

 

[Blood Electricity]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

If the ferries had exploded it would have been to bleak. Nolan wasn't thinking about a trilogy...the movie is a standalone. Plus, even the 'worst criminals' have families and morality. Remember, this is the lower level mafia, gang, and other crime family members. My guess, is it's the midlevel, since they were "important" for harvey dent's crusade. One of the first things in the movie is that criminals believed in honor and respect before the joker came alone. It's not like they all sat there and started singing camp fire songs or something. Seems to me that they would be the types with honor and respect. I'm sure not all of them wanted tiny to throw it out the window, but those are the actions of one man. I would imagine that many men would agree with his actions, as they probably believe they dug their own graves and it's theirs to lie in. They are probably just as terrified and angry at the joker than anyone else in the city. I think the part of this movie is to shadow harvey's arc. If the criminals he put away make a decision to save innocent lives..not really save, as much as just take the fall...that means that not everyone can be so easily corrupted by chaos and fear.

In my eyes, Batman won because he trusted that both boats wouldn't do it if he couldn't save them. He inspired the good, more so than joker inspired the chaos. The Joker had a feeling that would happen, that's why he said he had his "ace in the hole." I also have a feeling that he had actually given them their own bomb, even though it's not likely for ledger's joker IMO.

Although, I don't believe that Joker intended for harvey to have ever survived. it's the same as the joker/batman dynamic. All it takes is one bad day for each character to make them what they are. Two face is basically a brutal mix of the two of them, in a way. But the fact that two face exists is your bleak hopeless ending. He's the after math of the whole struggle. If he's a symbol for all the good in gotham, it's all been dragged down with his image.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Well said.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Really well said indeed

 

[Slickgonzalez]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

If the ferries had exploded it would have been to bleak. Nolan wasn't thinking about a trilogy...the movie is a standalone. Plus, even the 'worst criminals' have families and morality. Remember, this is the lower level mafia, gang, and other crime family members. My guess, is it's the midlevel, since they were "important" for harvey dent's crusade. One of the first things in the movie is that criminals believed in honor and respect before the joker came alone. It's not like they all sat there and started singing camp fire songs or something. Seems to me that they would be the types with honor and respect. I'm sure not all of them wanted tiny to throw it out the window, but those are the actions of one man. I would imagine that many men would agree with his actions, as they probably believe they dug their own graves and it's theirs to lie in. They are probably just as terrified and angry at the joker than anyone else in the city. I think the part of this movie is to shadow harvey's arc. If the criminals he put away make a decision to save innocent lives..not really save, as much as just take the fall...that means that not everyone can be so easily corrupted by chaos and fear.

In my eyes, Batman won because he trusted that both boats wouldn't do it if he couldn't save them. He inspired the good, more so than joker inspired the chaos. The Joker had a feeling that would happen, that's why he said he had his "ace in the hole." I also have a feeling that he had actually given them their own bomb, even though it's not likely for ledger's joker IMO.

Although, I don't believe that Joker intended for harvey to have ever survived. it's the same as the joker/batman dynamic. All it takes is one bad day for each character to make them what they are. Two face is basically a brutal mix of the two of them, in a way. But the fact that two face exists is your bleak hopeless ending. He's the after math of the whole struggle. If he's a symbol for all the good in gotham, it's all been dragged down with his image.

My personal opinion is that the ferry/sonar vision scenes were the weakest parts of the movie. Some of the acting in the ferry scene was ridiculously bad, and yes, realistically, someone would have detonated a bomb. It was weak, and it seemed like a studio note to me. The sonar vision was stupid as well. The effect was annoying, but it was even more annoying that Batman was 'blinded' by the sonar while Joker beat the crap out of him... Why didn't he just TURN IT OFF???

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I also have a feeling that he had actually given them their own bomb, even though it's not likely for ledger's joker IMO.

Oh I think it's highly likely after everything he pulled in TDK.

But anyway, that's just my point. We, the audience would never know, unless one of the boats did blow up. That's all I'm saying.

I get the ending, I like the ending, I'm just speculating a "what if" scenario.

 

[haytil]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

If we're supposed to believe that Gotham is the worst, most corruptible city in the world, than there's no doubt in my mind that despite Batman's efforts that ____ would have went down.

I think that if the civilians had blown up the boat, it would've proven Batman's cause to be worthless. Not just because it's a never-ending, uphill battle - but because he's fighting for scum.

If it turns out Batman is fighting for scum, then there's no point to his cause anymore. If there are no Good People in Gotham, then who really cares? They all deserve to die anyway - so ____ em. Let's watch another movie.

My personal opinion is that the ferry/sonar vision scenes were the weakest parts of the movie.[/quote Some of the acting in the ferry scene was ridiculously bad, and yes, realistically, someone would have detonated a bomb. It was weak, and it seemed like a studio note to me.

Would you have blown up a boat full of people? Even if they were criminals - they were still people. Not to mention the jailors, cops, boat staff, and warden on the other boat.

And even if you think you would have - don't be so sure. When you're actually confronted with the choice, in the moment, things become a lot more difficult and murkier than when you're just hypothetically thinking about it, in the comfort of your own home. Which was part of the point.

Killing people is hard. Killing lots of people is even harder. Even if you think it increases your chances of survival.

The effect was annoying, but it was even more annoying that Batman was 'blinded' by the sonar while Joker beat the crap out of him... Why didn't he just TURN IT OFF???

It's my understanding that the sonar system jammed. The lenses were over his eyes and built into his mask - it's not like he could just take off a pair of glasses. I simply gathered that they were jammed shut and freaking out on him - nothing he could do right away.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I think that if the civilians had blown up the boat, it would've proven Batman's cause to be worthless. Not just because it's a never-ending, uphill battle - but because he's fighting for scum.

If it turns out Batman is fighting for scum, then there's no point to his cause anymore. If there are no Good People in Gotham, then who really cares? They all deserve to die anyway - so ____ em. Let's watch another movie.

Not necessarily.

Keep in mind everyone voted in favor of blowing up the other boat. Yeah, saying and doing are two very different things, but Batman didn't know this. Plus, all it would take was one selfish person to make the choice, not everyone on the boat agreed. Take into account that it wasn't ALL of Gotham city on the boat and I think Batman could still have some hope and legitimate reason to fight for Gotham had one of the groups detonated.

 

[Maglor]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

In a practical sense, yes perhaps someone there would have detonated one of the boats. But as a plot point, both boats needed to stay in tact.

 

[Blood Electricity]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Oh I think it's highly likely after everything he pulled in TDK.

But anyway, that's just my point. We, the audience would never know, unless one of the boats did blow up. That's all I'm saying.

I get the ending, I like the ending, I'm just speculating a "what if" scenario.

I agree that it is likely, I through an 'un' in front by accident. The joker lies to everyone but batman in the entire movie. I can't remember what dialogue they have about the boats though.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Let's see what going on in this thread.....wait...

 

[DarkMagic]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Not necessarily.

Keep in mind everyone voted in favor of blowing up the other boat. Yeah, saying and doing are two very different things, but Batman didn't know this. Plus, all it would take was one selfish person to make the choice, not everyone on the boat agreed. Take into account that it wasn't ALL of Gotham city on the boat and I think Batman could still have some hope and legitimate reason to fight for Gotham had one of the groups detonated.

Not sure what you are saying here, but not everyone voted in favor of blowing up the other boat, the majority did---it wasn't unanimous. Even if the guy with the detonator (or some other civilian) carried out the will of the majority, there were still people on the boat who voted AGAINST killing the criminals, even if it meant certain death for them. You're right, Batman doesn't know that the majority voted to blow up the criminals, he just knows that in the end, they didn't do it, and assumes that the people of Gotham are "ready to believe in good" and for at least someof them, their vote (not to kill) matched that belief...and since none of the majority that voted to kill grabbed the detonator from the guy that couldn't go through with it...none of them were willing to cross that line, even when they believed their own lives were at stake. So Batman was right that they weren't scum, even if the majority (not all) voted that way.

 

[cokebabies]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I'm not sure who said it in here, but I also always thought the detonators were set to blow up their own boat, not the other boat.

 

[hhhaney1234]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

in the movie the captain says "why would he give us the detonator to our own bomb" (idk if thats the exact quote) but then joker says over intercom that each have the detonator to blown up the other boat. So that maybe why some people think that they had the detonators to their own boat. either way if Gordon had the guts to stop Batman the Joker would've blown them both up either way.

 

[cokebabies]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

in the movie the captain says "why would he give us the detonator to our own bomb" (idk if thats the exact quote) but then joker says over intercom that each have the detonator to blown up the other boat. So that maybe why some people think that they had the detonators to their own boat.

I don't think anyone is confused about what the detonators were said to be, but inferring from the Joker's personality and plans up to that point, tricking them into blowing their own boat seems right up his alley.

 

[stshammgod]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I don't think anyone is confused about what the detonators were said to be, but inferring from the Joker's personality and plans up to that point, tricking them into blowing their own boat seems right up his alley.

This is exactly what I thought as well.