Hot Toys Predator 2 - (battle damaged version) full spec

[Rob]

Not sure which interview you are talking about, so I don't feel comfortable arguing that point. However, I am going to have to call you on Shenanigans on that "always PG-13" talk. Provide me one link or piece of evidence that proves that. Because, if you look at Anderson's previous Sci-Fi/ Horror films (Event Horizon and RE), it's obvious the man loves his blood and gore. Same BS popped up right around the time Live Free or Die Hard was announced as a PG-13. "No, it was always intended as a PG-13 film." Sure, that's why the uncut film is so wonderfully bloody and profane. Don't believe the hype Rob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3hedznQnA
"There was never a different cut of the movie, other than the cut we released, and I think a lot of the reports are fake and made up. I think with a movie like this there's always going to be huge amount of kind of like, fan speculation." -Paul Anderson from link above

First of all, if their was an R-rated cut, he wouldve said so, and chances are, it wouldve been released by now, instead of us getting them same old crap with some useless extra scenes and fake looking CGI blood.

 

[DouglasMcc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3hedznQnA
"There was never a different cut of the movie, other than the cut we released, and I think a lot of the reports are fake and made up. I think with a movie like this there's always going to be huge amount of kind of like, fan speculation." -Paul Anderson from link above

First of all, if their was an R-rated cut, he wouldve said so, and chances are, it wouldve been released by now, instead of us getting them same old crap with some useless extra scenes and fake looking CGI blood.

I am sure you will just toss my opinion into the "conspiracy" bin, but look at that copyright date at the end - 2004. That was a fluff piece distributed by FOX themselves to SALE the movie (and eventual DVD). So, knowing that his next job is going to be based upon this films performance at the box office/ DVD sales, do you really think the man is going to come out and say, "yeah, they butchered my film, forced a PG-13 down my throat, but um ... please go see my film." It may be dishonest, but he's not sitting there trying to be your friend. He's trying to sell you a movie.

Examples: Night after Transformers is announced as HD-DVD only - Micheal Bay posts to his site, "This is crap. It should be available to all HD sources. I am seriously thinking of dropping out of the sequel because of this stupid move." Next day, presumably after Dreamworks lawyers called and yelled at him: "HD-DVD is a great format, perhaps I was hasty before. I would love to direct a sequel."

On Ain't It Cool News, after learning the film was being cut to get a PG-13, Willis' responses concerning the change were obviously angry and defiant. A few days later? "Well, the cuts really don't affect the action that much, blah, blah, blah."

Why all these reversals? Because Box Office/ DVD sales are still king in Hollywood.

I remember all the pre-release materials before the film was released. I followed it intently from the day it was announce to opening day when I was standing in line. And there is NO F'KING way the things I read and the script elements that got out there were PG-13 focused. Believe me or not, I know how I feel.

P.S. Technically, he was telling the truth. People claimed FOX edited the film without his permission. Well, if FOX came in and made him make the changes, then there would only be one cut of the film. If he was never given the money to complete those graphic scenes at the end, then there wouldn't be an R-rated cut to release (unless FOX ponied up the cash to complete the FX, and AVP wasn't a big enough success to warrant that).

I know this belief is based upon hearsay and speculation. I am willing to admit that. But, if you look at his decidedly R-rated Horror films done before AVP, and you look at the descriptions and pre-filming script/ designs released during production, it's obvious this wasn't always a PG-13 film.

P.S.S. So, you are angry at him and call him a liar when he claims the fights are 8 minutes long in another interview. Yet, you trust him emphatically when he states something that lends credence to your theory in a FOX fluff piece. No offense, but that's a little hypocritical.

 

[Rob]

No offense, but I trust the director's word(Not on the fight scenes part, but on the movie cut itself) on the cut of the movie than your conspiracy theory . Second, so what if the interview was back in '04? You have no credibility making the claim that Fox made him say this or that besides, as Anderson himself put it, 'fan speculation'.

Second, I trust him on the cut of movie because IT'S THE ONLY CUT THAT'S BEEN RELEASED MULTIPLE TIMES! If their was an R-Rated cut, then believe you me, we would have seen it. Instead, we're stuck with the piece of crap that is the final and ONLY cut. Second of all, it doesn't mean a damn thing that the films he made before AVP were filled with gore. Fox is very, and I mean VERY controlling of their movies. Hell, back when Dave Fincher was directing Alien3, he couldn't take a crap without the studio or producers bothering him about something or another. It doesn't surprise me that they would have him make a PG-13 movie for the sake of attracting a wider audience which means more $$$.

And yes, as I said before, I partly blame Fox for making AVP PG-13 and most of the other things that have happened.

I respect your views, Doug, but in this case, all you got is some speculation and not enough proof, whereas I have already cited a specific example. And since Anderson has not spoken out and then been silenced into submission like Michael Bay and Bruce Willis, I assume he was telling the truth.

 

[AdamBombOi]

I would assume after P1 and P2 because the technology that the humans were utilizing were far more advance compared to what the humans were using for P1 and P2.

P1 was set in 1987
P2 was set in 1997

AvP was set in 2004
And AvP:R is supposed to be set right after AvP, still in 2004.

 

[creecher]

I like your style DouglasMcC. Your dialogue is clear and succinct. It has been really enjoyable reading your posts. The rebuttles also.

I am no buff. I liked the AvP film for what it was, a piece of entertainment. I was entertained. I could follow the story line and I enjoyed the visuals. I know that their is an opinion that the film sucked, but it doesn't wash with me. I liked it. I'm bored by the behind the scenes to and fro about direction, Fox and shift of rating, what the suit was made out of and who was in that suit. I don't wish to buy into any of that. Real blood or CGI blood, is all blood to me. Sure I reckon they could have turned it up a notch, but what about the younguns? I don't have a clue about the Pred comics either, but being comics, sounds to me that they are directed at the young. So why not a Pred/Alien film that they could go along and see. They are the Hot Toys collectors of tomorrow. It's all turned out okay hasn't it? We're getting the R rated AvP-R aren't we? What's the problem?

I know I said I was bored, but thanks for cluing me in to the backdrop to all this. In any event we got some kickass figures out of it.

 

[Rob]

@Creecher: What about the kids? Both Alien and Predator are adult-oriented franchises, the last thing you do is market it to a younger crowd. Hell, they tried that with Robocop 3 and look what happened.

No offense, but it's like taking Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees and putting them in a Barny the Dinosaur movie. Would you market them to a younger crowd? Hell no! So why market both Aliens and Predators to kids, when both have been shown to do violent acts just like Krueger and Voorhees?

That and the characters were unrelatable and rather forgettable, whereas both franchises gave us character we liked, could relate to and care about.

 

[AdamBombOi]

I don't have a clue about the Pred comics either, but being comics, sounds to me that they are directed at the young.

No no no no no! I got into them at a young age because a friend of mine's father was a comic collector and I happened to see them one day at his house with a crappy babysitter while his parents were out, and my interest really sparked.

I was lucky to have parents that wouldn't try to sugar coat things for me, I was allowed to buy them. Lucky too, because some of these comics contain nudity, cursing, and very violent imagery; people getting decapitated, ripped in half, blown apart... some of them are down right BRUTAL.

If Fox decided to do anything else with the Predator franchise, I would LOVE a CG Animated direct to DVD movie, if anyone has ever seen scenes from the video game Concrete Jungle, they're breath taking. (Note: search for the cut scenes on youtube, they are there too).

 

[creecher]

I guess kids don't know about sex either, or drink booze. These are just films for entertainment. I was watching horror films when I was 7 or 8, and I loved them. I'm not talking little preppies and cartoon dinosaurs. Admittedly when I was young rampant gore wasn't prevalent. When I was young there weren't DvD's either, and what kid isn't going to watch an R rated DvD when the parents are out. You may be able to restrict some from entering the theatre, but get real. Hollywood is going to market to whomever they think will relinquish the most bucks, regardless of those who might wish for continuity etc etc. If they think kids are a market for these kind of villains, that they wouldn't create an uproar from parents, they would. I never heard there was a mass ruckus caused by AvP being directed at a younger audience before.

 

[AdamBombOi]

I guess kids don't know about sex either, or drink booze. These are just films for entertainment. I was watching horror films when I was 7 or 8, and I loved them. I'm not talking little preppies and cartoon dinosaurs. Admittedly when I was young rampant gore wasn't prevalent. When I was young there weren't DvD's either, and what kid isn't going to watch an R rated DvD when the parents are out. You may be able to restrict some from entering the theatre, but get real. Hollywood is going to market to whomever they think will relinquish the most bucks, regardless of those who might wish for continuity etc etc. If they think kids are a market for these kind of villains, that they would create an uproar from parents, they would. I never heard there was a mass ruckus caused by AvP being directed at a younger audience before.

Brother, I help raise my four year old niece because she needs a father figure in her life - my brother ain't there for her except when it's convenient. You can bet I don't let her watch R rated movies, hell Underdog scared her for Christ sake.

Unlike the majority of crappy parents in this country, my parents were great in raising me, and my family has been great in dealing with my niece as well. AvP in the early years was targeted at an ADULT audience, hell, both Predator and Aliens were directed at adults, because lord knows I've never seen these films on Nickelodeon. Teens, yeah, I can see them watching it. But you said kids.

If you gonna allow your kids to read stuff with this in them:

Than more power to you, just do your duty as an adult and a parental figure and explain to them what is right and wrong. America is already desensitized enough with sex and violence, and as near and dear to my heart as the Predator franchise is, I'd burn everything I own bearing that name on it if they started trying to make their target audience children.

...and I don't consider Predators to be villains, I see them as anti-heroes, you know they're big and mean and kill people... but they have a culture behind it, it's what they know, they have honor codes, they only hunt what is worthy.

 

[creecher]

The fact is they aren't targeting pre-teens, so the point is mute. Violence is a part of life. De-sensitising, sensitising, burning, it's all a little over reactive. What needs to be taught is the correct place for these things. I wouldn't be too surprised to find that children wouldn't know the steak they eat comes from the behind the scenes butchering of a cow. Can't tell them that. Oh no.

I'm sorry that I derailed the thread somewhat. Ignore me and go on about the Battle damaged Predator. I'm wanting to get this version. I love innovative figures. Maybe I should wait for the P1. Hoping they'll use the swappable mouth on that one as well.

I think yet another variant, the Sideshow version having the mask, has killed it for me, shipping from the states being what it is, unless I can score one from ebay, I'm going to wait for the P1.

 

[DouglasMcc]

@Creecher: What about the kids? Both Alien and Predator are adult-oriented franchises, the last thing you do is market it to a younger crowd. Hell, they tried that with Robocop 3 and look what happened.

No offense, but it's like taking Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees and putting them in a Barny the Dinosaur movie. Would you market them to a younger crowd? Hell no! So why market both Aliens and Predators to kids, when both have been shown to do violent acts just like Krueger and Voorhees?

That and the characters were unrelatable and rather forgettable, whereas both franchises gave us character we liked, could relate to and care about.

Actually, Kenner and FOX were marketing Aliens and Predators to kids in the late 80's/early 90's - even back when the films were rated R. "Go ahead little Johnny, play with Lt. Ripley ... NO! You can't watch daddies VHS of Aliens!"

But, lets be honest here ... the invention of the PG-13 rating was an offshoot of this marketing blitz. The studios wanted to be able to market a film to both children and adults, to maximize profits. Unfortunately, very few people, outside of the comedy genre have managed to merge the 2 well.

https://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Toys/AliensFigures.html

 

[gdb]

But, lets be honest here ... the invention of the PG-13 rating was an offshoot of this marketing blitz. The studios wanted to be able to market a film to both children and adults, to maximize profits. Unfortunately, very few people, outside of the comedy genre have managed to merge the 2 well.

https://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Toys/AliensFigures.html

Actually, if I remember correctly, PG-13 came out of the controversy from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. The powers that be decided that while the film was not an R, pulling out a still beating human heart was not something every 9 year-old would want to see. So for films like Revenge of the Sith and Batman Begins, we have PG-13.

 

[Jamal]

I love how this has turned out, Debates and Rebuttles at a mature rate with clear concise dialogue i love it!! this doesnt happen on many forums trust me.
Im gonna try and find his quote about the Preds, i cant remember if it was the directors commentary or the making of but im gonna scan them and find it

EDIT - Ive heard him quote once now " Predators are dropped on earth as teenagers to prove themselves as worthy hunters"

BINGO!!! 1 Hour into the directors commentary "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

OH MY GOD IS THIS GUY SMOKING FRIGGEN CRACK??? I KNEW I HEARD IT, because of his twisted logic about teenagers and hunting rituals blah blah hes saying that the earlier Preds were younger than his goof ball Predators, how could he make this statement when the whole teenage thing is just a concoction

OK another contradiction "Charles W. Bishop is the Bill Gates of the AVP World, its like Microsoft building robots of bill gates in the future and AVP is set 150 years before the other Alien movies" "Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an andrioid.How can this be when Bishop dies in AVP and was clearly human in Alien 3 with what is seen as red blood flowing from his wound in the Assembly cut of Alien3 he clearly yells "IM NOT A DRIOD"and Lance has stated already that he was indeed human in Alien3 previously.


"We've made the Creatures look better than ever before" LOL...

 

[drunk_leprechaun]

I've was going to preordering this .. but after giving it some thought last night I'm going to pass, as much as I want that headsculpt. I'm hoping we get some of the lost hunters ( boar preds especially) . Knowing hot toys , im sure theyll make complete use of the predator lisences.

 

[Jamal]

For the guys in the discussion please read my post

 

[Rob]

About the first two Predators;

To Anderson; "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

One problem, genius; the Alien skull belonged to the main Pred in the second film! Again, contradicting continuity. And the one in P1 was confirmed to be an older Predator LONG before your crap movie came out. Again, contradicting continuity.

"We've made the creatures look better than ever before"

Really? Then why do I see the turd-esque Resurrection Aliens running around instead of Giger's masterpiece? Why do I see Predators looking like oversized football players, with long, girly-man dreadlocks, fake looking banana-finger hands and faces that look like ****? Why do I see ridiculously long wristblades, big, clunky arm blades and oversized plasmacasters or crappy combi-sticks that look like they break if you even look at them wrong? Seems like you opted ol' 'bigger is better' adage, which in this case, sure as hell doesn't work, and didn't put forth any creativity whatsoever(Besides the Predator masks).

"Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an android."
*Sigh* Contradicting continuity yet again? Tell me, were you born a ******* or did you just turn into one? First of all, yes, Bishop in ALIENS was an Android, BUT, the Bishop at the end of Alien3 was confirmed human LONG before your crappy excuse of a movie came out. Henrikson himself confirms it in the BTS on the 2nd Disc and the movie itself even shows he's not an android(IE; Red blood, where as androids have some sort of white liquid, and him shouting "I'm not a droid!" aswell as him being in pain after having his ear almost torn off, whereas an android, wouldn't feel pain).

 

[Jamal]

I hope you like that info i had to sit through the god awful making for 30 mins and i had to listen to Anderson for 1 ****ing hour also through the directors commentary to dig that up man lol, ill never get the hour and a half back..

 

[darren1228]

Note to future directors of the AvP franchise: There is no rule stating that you must connect the storyline of all three franchises. Please keep them separate for our and your own sake.

 

[Stendec]

I love how this has turned out, Debates and Rebuttles at a mature rate with clear concise dialogue i love it!! this doesnt happen on many forums trust me.
Im gonna try and find his quote about the Preds, i cant remember if it was the directors commentary or the making of but im gonna scan them and find it

EDIT - Ive heard him quote once now " Predators are dropped on earth as teenagers to prove themselves as worthy hunters"

BINGO!!! 1 Hour into the directors commentary "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

OH MY GOD IS THIS GUY SMOKING FRIGGEN CRACK??? I KNEW I HEARD IT, because of his twisted logic about teenagers and hunting rituals blah blah hes saying that the earlier Preds were younger than his goof ball Predators, how could he make this statement when the whole teenage thing is just a concoction

OK another contradiction "Charles W. Bishop is the Bill Gates of the AVP World, its like Microsoft building robots of bill gates in the future and AVP is set 150 years before the other Alien movies" "Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an andrioid.How can this be when Bishop dies in AVP and was clearly human in Alien 3 with what is seen as red blood flowing from his wound in the Assembly cut of Alien3 he clearly yells "IM NOT A DRIOD"and Lance has stated already that he was indeed human in Alien3 previously.


"We've made the Creatures look better than ever before" LOL...

Nice excerpts there Jamal. Yeah, AVP failed on so many levels it beggers belief. It was a neat idea to introduce the Company as it would have existed in its formative years in the 21st Century. However, the Charles Bishop Weyland character and having Henrikson potray him was a terrible mistake. I thought Henrikson would have realised this and cared enough about Bishop and the franchise to refuse. I guess he just saw it as another gig, but the guy has bills to pay I guess.

 

[Jamal]

The guy is one big HACK man he really thinks like AVP is something special man, sittng through his commentary was EXCITING