1/6 Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Vice Admiral Holdo - SPECULATION

[screamingmetal]

Rotten Tomatoes user reviews are laughable. They are nowhere near the equivalent of a scientific poll and absolutely do not represent what the world thinks of TLJ. It's more likely that these reviews are a handful (a few thousand) internet trolls who inexplicably hated the movie and created duplicate accounts to make it seem like there's this massive backlash. Cinemascore is actual polling, and they gave it an "A."

I rated TLJ on RT just once. I think it's more accurate than some might think. The Cinemascore asks people who just came out of the theater and many people don't want to be bothered and give a quick and simple rating to get the survey out of their hair. It also doesn't account for people that need some time to think about it. I was left indifferent immediately after and needed a few hours to think it over and I wasn't surveyed by Cinemascore.
My rating on RT is exactly what I think of it, 1 star out of 5.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I wonder why when people start threads ragging on women and talking about how lame their characters are while at the same time reducing their worth to whether they are "hot or not." I'm honestly sick of it. Someone has to be a voice for decency.

If you want to be a voice for decency, I applaud that goal. But you might want to avoid using phrases like "butt-hurt bigots" for anyone who uses the terms "social agenda" or "SJW" in stating their opinions. The objectification of women is indefensible in this forum, or any other. I agree with you. But, what is equally indefensible is simply dismissing a dissenting opinion by throwing labels on the people who offer it. And it's just lazy. Honest debate should be "point - counterpoint," not "point - dismissive label."

There are legitimate reasons why people dislike the Holdo character that has nothing to do with her gender. And there are plenty of people who dislike TLJ for where it fails to retain a connection to Star Wars stories of the past (even the very recent past). I didn't "hate" TLJ by any stretch, but I recognize some undeniable problems with it. Differences of opinion are actually okay. We don't need to start hating people, or casting aspersions on them, just for disagreeing with our own opinions. If you feel there are actually bigots tearing down things for bigoted reasons, you have every right to call them out on it. Just please try to avoid over-generalizing the rest of the people you disagree with, please.

 

[JonWes]

I'm all for the ignore function, too, when someone proves their "viewpoint" not really worth any time or effort.

 

[screamingmetal]

If you want to be a voice for decency, I applaud that goal. But you might want to avoid using phrases like "butt-hurt bigots" for anyone who uses the terms "social agenda" or "SJW" in stating their opinions. The objectification of women is indefensible in this forum, or any other. I agree with you. But, what is equally indefensible is simply dismissing a dissenting opinion by throwing labels on the people who offer it. And it's just lazy. Honest debate should be "point - counterpoint," not "point - dismissive label."

There are legitimate reasons why people dislike the Holdo character that has nothing to do with her gender. And there are plenty of people who dislike TLJ for where it fails to retain a connection to Star Wars stories of the past (even the very recent past). I didn't "hate" TLJ by any stretch, but I recognize some undeniable problems with it. Differences of opinion are actually okay. We don't need to start hating people, or casting aspersions on them, just for disagreeing with our own opinions. If you feel there are actually bigots tearing down things for bigoted reasons, you have every right to call them out on it. Just please try to avoid over-generalizing the rest of the people you disagree with, please.

Very well said Ajp4mgs!
Admiral Holdo, Rose, and Leia are the least of my issues with this movie. I found the dropping of the plot elements from TFA, the abandoning of mythological story elements that inspired Star Wars, and the treatment of Luke and the Force the worst aspects of TLJ.

 

[hen88]

If you want to be a voice for decency, I applaud that goal. But you might want to avoid using phrases like "butt-hurt bigots" for anyone who uses the terms "social agenda" or "SJW" in stating their opinions. The objectification of women is indefensible in this forum, or any other. I agree with you. But, what is equally indefensible is simply dismissing a dissenting opinion by throwing labels on the people who offer it. And it's just lazy. Honest debate should be "point - counterpoint," not "point - dismissive label."

There are legitimate reasons why people dislike the Holdo character that has nothing to do with her gender. And there are plenty of people who dislike TLJ for where it fails to retain a connection to Star Wars stories of the past (even the very recent past). I didn't "hate" TLJ by any stretch, but I recognize some undeniable problems with it. Differences of opinion are actually okay. We don't need to start hating people, or casting aspersions on them, just for disagreeing with our own opinions. If you feel there are actually bigots tearing down things for bigoted reasons, you have every right to call them out on it. Just please try to avoid over-generalizing the rest of the people you disagree with, please.

I appreciate your humane and constructive reply. In my opinion, calling someone an “SJW” is a dismissive and offensive term. It’s purpose is to make fun of and belittle people who believe in respect, dignity, and justice for all people, regardless of gender, race, class, sexual orientation, disability, etc. Being against these ideals inherently opens them up to the “bigot” label. What other motivation are they operating out of? I would be careful about defending those who oppose equality.


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[hokietwo]

I have just one question. Where can I sign up to be a "toy board hero"?

Cause everyone knows change starts here. We will be the spark that ignites the fire that blows up the tanker which ruins the road that causes the traffic jam and makes everyone late for dinner causing the dog to not get fed pushing to lack of sleep which ultimately will accomplish..........nothing.

Just like this thread.

 

[TaliBane]

Rotten Tomatoes user reviews are laughable. They are nowhere near the equivalent of a scientific poll and absolutely do not represent what the world thinks of TLJ. It's more likely that these reviews are a handful (a few thousand) internet trolls who inexplicably hated the movie and created duplicate accounts to make it seem like there's this massive backlash. Cinemascore is actual polling, and they gave it an "A."

Cinemascore is based on only 400 moviegoers nationally, and tends to skew positive (the reason studios like it and often cite it.) It's statistically representative, but a surprisingly tiny number. It's generally more a test of how well the movie's marketing matched what was actually onscreen.

Rottentomatoes was under intense pressure from the media regarding its user rating "audience score" score - media interest driven by the reports a few days before Christmas about an "alt-right" group being responsible (since proven false.) A senior executive from RT responded that they had checked the user reviews for bot manipulation and did not find anything - they stood by the result.

The idea that "a few thousand" users could create nearly 170,000 unique reviews via dupe accounts really doesn't ring true, especially given the RT investigation and attention from the media.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I'm a big fan of Star Wars. Have been since I was very young. So it is irritating that the franchise is essentially ruined for me going forward because a terrible film with an agenda completely disrespected the films that came before it. That's all.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I have just one question. Where can I sign up to be a "toy board hero"?

Cause everyone knows change starts here. We will be the spark that ignites the fire that blows up the tanker which ruins the road that causes the traffic jam and makes everyone late for dinner causing the dog to not get fed pushing to lack of sleep which ultimately will accomplish..........nothing.

Just like this thread.

We all know closing down interstate highways and preventing folks from shopping and generally going about their productive lives is the best way to go about getting your point across.

 

[karamazov80]

Whatever you think of this character, she was way more important to the story, and had more screen time than Phasma, who is apparently getting a second figure after HT couldn't give the one from Force Awakens away. But female figures, apart from someone like Leia, don't sell well in general. Plus, her design is lackluster, and the film is polarizing. So, if you wanted to take a serious look, HT should probably pass.

 

[hokietwo]

Whatever you think of this character, she was way more important to the story, and had more screen time than Phasma, who is apparently getting a second figure after HT couldn't give the one from Force Awakens away. But female figures, apart from someone like Leia, don't sell well in general. Plus, her design is lackluster, and the film is polarizing. So, if you wanted to take a serious look, HT should probably pass.

True but HT is most likely releasing Phasma because they probably had another 3,000 stocked up in a warehouse they never painted for the reasons you stated of poor sales. So add a silver stick and voila, new MMS. They'll get SRP to the distributors and make their money and we will have another $75 dollar off turd next year for spooktacular. Its not really a gender specific release since the gender is hidden in the armor so she is definitely a different case. Troopers will collect for armor pieces for sure.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah, Phasma is one that, in a vacuum, you would expect to sell really well because it is a bad ass looking figure. But the troops in general have failed to sell well from these movies. I always assume that HT knows what its doing better than I do, so I'll defer to them as to this being a reasonable decision.

 

[JonWes]

Cinemascore is based on only 400 moviegoers nationally, and tends to skew positive (the reason studios like it and often cite it.) It's statistically representative, but a surprisingly tiny number. It's generally more a test of how well the movie's marketing matched what was actually onscreen.

Rottentomatoes was under intense pressure from the media regarding its user rating "audience score" score - media interest driven by the reports a few days before Christmas about an "alt-right" group being responsible (since proven false.) A senior executive from RT responded that they had checked the user reviews for bot manipulation and did not find anything - they stood by the result.

The idea that "a few thousand" users could create nearly 170,000 unique reviews via dupe accounts really doesn't ring true, especially given the RT investigation and attention from the media.

Of course, this is a self-conducted investigation by RT, who NEED people to think their scores can be trusted. So, I wouldn't just buy what they are saying off hand. HOWEVER, I imagine that most of those reviews are by unique users. It still doesn't mean much. The problem here is that RT's system is entirely dependent on the motivation of the user to self report. And statistically, people who are very pleased with something are often less motivated to write a review versus people who are displeased with it. So it's already skewed. Add to that the media coverage of the RT score only fuels more people digruntled with the movie to add in their score. Based solely on the fact that this is no random sampling, it means it really is FAIRLY meaningless as any sort of measure. You can say "a number of fans did not like The Last Jedi" truthfully. You cannot say 50% of the US doesn't like it. And if you do, I will giggle.

I mean, at the end of the day... it DOES have a great Cinemascore. And it's the number one grossing film of 2017. Disney is overjoyed. A lot of Star Wars fans are very happy. Some are not. They might even be a sizable chunk. Star Wars can stand to lose them. And, judging by the way some of them acted after this, Star Wars fandom is probably better off without them. I don't say that with any joy. It stinks when you no longer like something you once did. But, things evolve. Sometimes they evolve past you in ways you don't like. Thankfully there's so many other things for one to enjoy and put their passion into.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Is a new phasma a sure thing? I know there was a preview of sorts but a lot of that stuff never sees daylight. If it is made maybe they will have a buy the new phasma, get the old phasma free sale.

 

[hokietwo]

Is a new phasma a sure thing? I know there was a preview of sorts but a lot of that stuff never sees daylight. If it is made maybe they will have a buy the new phasma, get the old phasma free sale.

Or put the other one in the barbie dream house.

 

[hen88]

Of course, this is a self-conducted investigation by RT, who NEED people to think their scores can be trusted. So, I wouldn't just buy what they are saying off hand. HOWEVER, I imagine that most of those reviews are by unique users. It still doesn't mean much. The problem here is that RT's system is entirely dependent on the motivation of the user to self report. And statistically, people who are very pleased with something are often less motivated to write a review versus people who are displeased with it. So it's already skewed. Add to that the media coverage of the RT score only fuels more people digruntled with the movie to add in their score. Based solely on the fact that this is no random sampling, it means it really is FAIRLY meaningless as any sort of measure. You can say "a number of fans did not like The Last Jedi" truthfully. You cannot say 50% of the US doesn't like it. And if you do, I will giggle.

I mean, at the end of the day... it DOES have a great Cinemascore. And it's the number one grossing film of 2017. Disney is overjoyed. A lot of Star Wars fans are very happy. Some are not. They might even be a sizable chunk. Star Wars can stand to lose them. And, judging by the way some of them acted after this, Star Wars fandom is probably better off without them. I don't say that with any joy. It stinks when you no longer like something you once did. But, things evolve. Sometimes they evolve past you in ways you don't like. Thankfully there's so many other things for one to enjoy and put their passion into.

I'm sure they would enjoy Chuck Norris and Steven Segal movies. Those seem to suit them.

 

[Cagoda]

I'm sure they would enjoy Chuck Norris and Steven Segal movies. Those seem to suit them.

“We are what they grow beyond”
Or whatever Yoda said.

 

[TaliBane]

Of course, this is a self-conducted investigation by RT, who NEED people to think their scores can be trusted. So, I wouldn't just buy what they are saying off hand. HOWEVER, I imagine that most of those reviews are by unique users. It still doesn't mean much. The problem here is that RT's system is entirely dependent on the motivation of the user to self report. And statistically, people who are very pleased with something are often less motivated to write a review versus people who are displeased with it. So it's already skewed. Add to that the media coverage of the RT score only fuels more people digruntled with the movie to add in their score. Based solely on the fact that this is no random sampling, it means it really is FAIRLY meaningless as any sort of measure. You can say "a number of fans did not like The Last Jedi" truthfully. You cannot say 50% of the US doesn't like it. And if you do, I will giggle.

I mean, at the end of the day... it DOES have a great Cinemascore. And it's the number one grossing film of 2017. Disney is overjoyed. A lot of Star Wars fans are very happy. Some are not. They might even be a sizable chunk. Star Wars can stand to lose them. And, judging by the way some of them acted after this, Star Wars fandom is probably better off without them. I don't say that with any joy. It stinks when you no longer like something you once did. But, things evolve. Sometimes they evolve past you in ways you don't like. Thankfully there's so many other things for one to enjoy and put their passion into.

I agree but... RT also placed the Variety and CNN reviews - which were most definitely negative (go ahead and read them) - into the "fresh" column under "top critics", so it kinda goes both ways though.

So you can't point to the review aggregator part and say that's iron-clad, but then turn around and say the other parts of the site are a joke.

And saying "people who are very pleased with something are often less motivated to write a review versus people who are displeased with it" is the EXACT criticism people direct at Cinemascore - you've taken the time to leave home and see a movie on opening night... you're generally going to be one of the people who are most likely to give a great score.

And I'd argue (if you actually look at news articles around Christmas) that media coverage was actually the reverse - it was dubious of the RT user score and called it a conpsiracy, or a small disgruntled group. The media didn't buy it at all - initially, until it became clearer that the backlash was bigger than expected.

And finally, the facts:

AOTC made over $1B in adjusted dollars worldwide.

AOTC received an A- from Cinemascore

And no, you won't find those facts in any media story out there.

 

[hokietwo]

I would rep you but I am cheap and lazy.

So here’s a meme.

 

[mattinglymint23]

I’d love a Laura Dern figure from the West Wing episode when she played the poet laureate Tabitha Fortis


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