Iron Man 3 Discussion Thread

[lerath666]

No it's not. It affects only those who know who the character is.

which is why the story would have been better served if they hadn't called him mandarin in the first place.

It's the same thing as making this Batman in th next batman movie.

why use an established character if you're not even going to use the essence of said character?

 

[Mr Quimper]

I watched this last night and was so disappointed by it. Iron man 1 and 2 did a great (and pretty faithful) transition from comic to movie screen.

Iron man 3 is probably best forgotten.

 

[Frank]

No it's not. It affects only those who know who the character is.

So say this was a character (Mandarin) that was invented purely for the movie and had no comic ties. We aren't given any window into the creation of such a clever ruse, it's just there. We don't get to see Killian operating any of these behind-the-scenes operations (like we see Tony remotely operating his suits). The only concrete connection is an admission from the two characters seperately in different scenes. They don't even appear in the same shot together. That's just lazy. It both demands familiarity with the iconic imagery while at the same time insisting you don't care unless (as some are implying) you're some racist American.

All this trouble and it's barely established why a terrorist front was ever needed in the first place to achieve Killian's goals. He wanted Stark to help him fix the flaws so he:

-goes to Tony
-create a massive program to turn soldiers into super terrorists and suicide bombers... to get money, to get Tony's attention or to make more scientists help him?
-unintentionally tries to kill Tony via his Ten Rings organization, then kidnaps Tony, then demands higher bounty for his death, then repeatedly tries to kill him, retcon his armor etc. with Stane. No evidence of Extremis is present nor any attempt to have him work on their real project instead of his latest military tech.
-backs off after Stane bites it.
-5 years later goes to Pepper.
-Tries to kill Tony and Pepper in surprise attack.
-Repeatedly tries to kill Tony with Extremis soldiers.
-Kidnaps Pepper and injects her with Extremis to make Tony help him (after he captures Tony too).
-Kidnaps and tries to kill the President so the Vice President who he has somehow convinced to betray his country (because he cares about the disabled?) get into power and somehow makes Tony fix the flaws.

Movie fan? Ok.

 

[FQRizzo]

Guess RDJ isn't really Iron Man. Story

RDJ Makes Toddler Cry by Not Being Iron Man

 

[lerath666]

He probably gets the character very much. But you know...it being a film, and comics being comics...and he didn't want to throw up a racist Chinese guy on screen to a film that is going to be sold and marketed to China.

You don't need to go the racist characture angle for the mandarin to work.
And you can STILL make him asian.

Some people happen to have an obsession with history. Particularly the history of their own culture.

We had an alien invasion in the Avengers.

We established Magic is nothing but Advanced as hell science with Thor.

New Character take on the Mandarin.

Asian-American guy. Computer programmer who works for SETI. Gets picked on a little becuase of his love of chinese history. And when I say Love, i mean borderline Obsession. Everyone has they guy at work who's cubical is covered with Transformers, or Cars, or Star Wars, or whatever it is they're really into? That guy, but with Chinese history.

Take it a step farther, perhaps he gets snubbed Like killian does at the begenning of Iron Man 3, INSTEAD of killian

Fast Forward. he's now a Computer Tech at Seti, moving on.

Right place at that right time during the Invasion in New york, he sees the equipment he's working on detect something crash in the nearby desert. Why dose no one else see it? They're too busy with the events in New york, and the machine he is working on is broken anyways.

So he gets his car and drives out to the crash site, and finds the wreckage of an alien ship.... picks at it, prods at it.. .and finds the rings. Plugged into the ship, being used as a power supply, orweapons control, or whatever.

He takes them, messes with them, learns to use them.

Power Corrupts, one thing leads to another, we Get a fresh spin on the Mandarin, that has the trappings people expected, whitout seeming too "racist".

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

@Frank apparently Killain wasn't the head of or even involved with the real ten rings, he just took their name and iconography for his own ends.

None of that was in the movie though

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

https://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/iron-man-3-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook/10805395.html

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

That does look cool

 

[jye4ever]

Too bad what's inside isn't as good.

 

[Frank]

@Frank apparently Killain wasn't the head of or even involved with the real ten rings, he just took their name and iconography for his own ends.

None of that was in the movie though

Sloppy and does not resolve the issue at all. Ten Rings is nothing but a direct reference to the Mandarin from the beginning... so now that that character has been effectively debunked how could we assume a "real" one exists? How in the world did he not run afoul of the real organization?

The worst kinds of mistakes that creative people can make are sins against natural curiosity. Here you have these gaping holes in character and plot development with absolutely nothing to offer the audience as a possible explanation. Nothing. If Killian was pulling all this strings behind the scenes, they have to show him doing a little more than monologing in a makeshift lab or warehouse somewhere. The production gets no credit because the movie itself doesn't bother to establish this in a remotely satisfying way.

Granted, superhero movies get away with alot more than other genres because the break from reality is conceded at the outset. They do have general rules though. Villains still need motive, the titular character(s) has to save the day, and decoys aren't played by marquee actors. They certainly don't appear in their own posters! Did you ever see Ken Watanabe's face on a BB poster? Was he ever a selling point for that movie? If we didn't know already, we ought to know now.

 

[FQRizzo]

Too bad what's inside isn't as good.

Don't worry, you can just put a copy of Iron Man 1 in there.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Too bad what's inside isn't as good.

Don't worry, you can just put a copy of Iron Man 1 in there.

 

[Biojex]

Don't worry, you can just put a copy of Iron Man 1 in there.

3 copies!

 

[JAWS]

I did, but not due to the character being intrinsically racist, but because the executives are a bunch of ***** willows with no spine.

Only rich white people can be bad. Make anyone else bad with a different ethnic or financial background and you risk offending someone. White people, People of Christian faith, or worse yet, Rich Christian white people don't count as real humans..

 

[Intruder04]

No it's not. It affects only those who know who the character is.

Ok. But there are also the people (minority maybe) who know the character.

So say this was a character (Mandarin) .......

All this trouble and it's barely established why a terrorist front was ever needed in the first place to achieve Killian's goals. He wanted Stark to help him fix the flaws so he:

-goes to Tony
-create a massive program to turn soldiers into super terrorists and suicide bombers... to get money, to get Tony's attention or to make more scientists help him?
-unintentionally tries to kill Tony via his Ten Rings organization, then kidnaps Tony, then demands higher bounty for his death, then repeatedly tries to kill him, retcon his armor etc. with Stane. No evidence of Extremis is present nor any attempt to have him work on their real project instead of his latest military tech.
-backs off after Stane bites it.
-5 years later goes to Pepper.
-Tries to kill Tony and Pepper in surprise attack.
-Repeatedly tries to kill Tony with Extremis soldiers.
-Kidnaps Pepper and injects her with Extremis to make Tony help him (after he captures Tony too).
-Kidnaps and tries to kill the President so the Vice President who he has somehow convinced to betray his country (because he cares about the disabled?) get into power and somehow makes Tony fix the flaws.

Movie fan? Ok.

There are people in other threads saying that this is the most flawless movie in a while. No plot holes, no loose ends whatsoever

You don't need to go the racist characture angle for the mandarin to work.
And you can STILL make him asian.

Some people happen to have an obsession with history. Particularly the history of their own culture.

We had an alien invasion in the Avengers.

We established Magic is nothing but Advanced as hell science with Thor.

New Character take on the Mandarin.
....
....
we Get a fresh spin on the Mandarin, that has the trappings people expected, whitout seeming too "racist".

Why can't they come up with something like that??

Too bad what's inside isn't as good.

Yeah but at least I'll be able to get a hi-res snapshot of those armors. Gemini, in particular! :yess

 

[lerath666]

Ok. But there are also the people (minority maybe) who know the character.



There are people in other threads saying that this is the most flawless movie in a while. No plot holes, no loose ends whatsoever


Why can't they come up with something like that??


Yeah but at least I'll be able to get a hi-res snapshot of those armors. Gemini, in particular! :yess

Becuase not everyone went to school for game design, with a specializeation in story development and narative....

and then ended up with tons of far too specific skills, and no expierence and the inability to get a job, and obscene amounts of student debt

So... if anyone wants me to come on and help with A Film, let me know

poking fun at myself aside, I sometimes wonder if people in hollyweird really give any SERIOUS thought to the stories they tell sometimes. Or if they just go with the first Idea they get, and don't make any REAL attempt to flesh it out in a way that makes sense.

 

[lerath666]

Shane didn't get the character, but saw fit to use the name anyway. That's the rub.



Supervillians don't get their own films generally.

Except in cases where teh word "batman" is in the title.

Seriously, am I the only one who gets that vibe sometimes?

By thatm I mean that often times teh Villians are more interesting than Batman, and he comes off as a supporting character in them?

Not so much Begins, but it feels like that in TDK, and DKR, and EVEN MORESO in the older batman movies.

 

[Frank]

Except in cases where teh word "batman" is in the title.

Seriously, am I the only one who gets that vibe sometimes?

By thatm I mean that often times teh Villians are more interesting than Batman, and he comes off as a supporting character in them?

Not so much Begins, but it feels like that in TDK, and DKR, and EVEN MORESO in the older batman movies.

Batman 89 was essentially Joker's origin story. Just remember though, the more you buy the villain, the more you want the hero to kick his ***. Loki would be the most recent success story in this regard. Although he had a lot of help from Thanos, would anyone be cool with DisMarv making him an actor joke because they wanted to sell more Avengers tickets in Norway? Bunch of herring-gorged tundra monkeys anyway!

Only rich white people can be bad. Make anyone else bad with a different ethnic or financial background and you risk offending someone. White people, People of Christian faith, or worse yet, Rich Christian white people don't count as real humans..

That's because we collect Hot Toys.

There are people in other threads saying that this is the most flawless movie in a while. No plot holes, no loose ends whatsoever

That's because when we hone our online arguments into pointy little spears of text we become tribal. I admit to nothing!

 

[Niltusk]

@Frank apparently Killain wasn't the head of or even involved with the real ten rings, he just took their name and iconography for his own ends.

None of that was in the movie though

Okay... where did you get this info and why did the Ten Rings have Extremis Agents?

@Frank...I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be the vice presidents kid, not just some random kid standing around with him.

Really the idiotic levels of nit picking (especially the stuff explained ad nauseum in this thread) is at an all time high with this movie.

 

[lerath666]

Okay... where did you get this info and why did the Ten Rings have Extremis .

Wen did the ten rings have extremis agents?

As for an answer to the first part, an interview with the script writer.

https://comicbook.com/blog/2013/05/07/iron-man-3-the-answer-to-the-ten-rings-question/