Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[FSLAR]

They planned a reboot and had concept art but they didn't have anything concrete. I would absolutely love another Jak and Daxter from ND though, in a heart beat.

 

[GasparZizou]

I'm still waiting for more Crash Bandicoot :

 

[pturtle]

But that's a false analogy. Ellie doesn't kill neeeeeearly as many people as Joel, not even close.

You also need to separate narrative from gameplay, you can't take the fact that they kill 50 NPCS in 15 minutes literally in the narrative.


But again, "everyone".


Have a friend drop a brick on your melon, tell me if it's effective or not


Nah man, like I said, it sounded like he was trying to add a feminist tint to what he already made in the game.

You can tell by his explanation of the ending, it's so ********.

"Yeah that's when she decided she needed to dump Joel to be independent". **** right off

I'll agree with you, these mother****ers are going full legend of Korra from now on.


But the fact that you don't like those characters doesn't make them a problem, they're not a problem, there's no difference between those characters and Joel.

You are right about infallible SJW characters.


Sure looks like it.


Maybe not usually and certainly not with the Uncharted series, but with TLOU? Very much so imo.

The fact that they have simple plots isnt' a bad thing when the characters and the dialogue are so endearing.

I don’t mean killing as many people in total, but being capable to take out rooms of enemies, or even towns

I don’t think you should separate narrative and gameplay, I think the point of gameplay is to immerse the player into the story. A lot of games do it perfectly where most of what you’re doing in game doesn’t underserve the story, Metal Gear, Hitman, even Grand Theft Auto are games that do that, I think thats the point of the medium.

The guy made the game though, if he’s explaining all these things have a feminist agenda then how can I argue it?

Like I said, he was an SJW before this game, and a lot of it came from wanting to make a game for his daughter, i think some things did have Anita’s Sarkeesian’s influence though which probably mostly made it in Left Behind, covers, comics etc..

I have no problem with simple stories, Snake Eater and MGS4 have pretty simple stories, but to me, the dialogue in ND games and the story is never that great but the storytelling is, and especially in TLOU, but its really the characters and tech behind the game that elevate everything along with the storytelling. The acting in TLOU is truly amazing and Joel can say anything and it’ll sound great. While the Metal Gear series has a lot of dumb stuff going on when you take it at face value, even the writing to a certain extent, and extremely dumb characters like Fatman and Vamp as whole they’re more intellectual and tackle serious and relatable world problems and its done in a way that doesn’t ruin the immersion or compromise the gameplay. Kojima is a master at trying to incorporate players into the game as much as possible.

By the way, when do you plan on playing Uncharted 4?

 

[GasparZizou]

I don’t mean killing as many people in total, but being capable to take out rooms of enemies, or even towns

Yeah but Joel does everything, like 90% of the killing.

I don’t think you should separate narrative and gameplay, I think the point of gameplay is to immerse the player into the story. A lot of games do it perfectly where most of what you’re doing in game doesn’t underserve the story, Metal Gear, Hitman, even Grand Theft Auto are games that do that, I think thats the point of the medium.

In games like TLOU and Uncharted you should, the narrative is very down to earth and realistic you simply cannot reconcile the fact that they kill 50 people a day, or more, with limited resources, t's retarded.

You can't seriously think you can fix everything with tape, bolts and gears. Those are gameplay elements, they should remain in gameplay, period.

Metal Gear and GTA are surreal, they can get away with that.

The guy made the game though, if he’s explaining all these things have a feminist agenda then how can I argue it?

Like I said, he was an SJW before this game, and a lot of it came from wanting to make a game for his daughter, i think some things did have Anita’s Sarkeesian’s influence though which probably mostly made it in Left Behind.

But you can read between the lines, not just chug whatever devs say, I know it's a broken record in this thread and I love Kojima, but that's what Kojibros do, isn't it? They just run with whatever favors Kojima.

Well, you're doing that, but against TLOU.

Yeah he said he was an SJW, when the poor nuMales who jumped in the SJW bandwagon thought it actually meant equality and not feminist nazism.

I just pray this SJW ends soon, that's why I'm fully supporting the new DOOM. I'm just glad people are starting to roll their eyes at this ********.

I have no problem with simple stories, Snake Eater and MGS4 have pretty simple stories, but to me, the dialogue in ND games and the story is never that great but the storytelling is, and especially in TLOU, but its really the characters and tech behind the game that elevate everything along with the storytelling. The acting in TLOU is truly amazing and Joel can say anything and it’ll sound great. While the Metal Gear series has a lot of dumb stuff going on when you take it at face value, even the writing to a certain extent, and extremely dumb characters like Fatman and Vamp as whole they’re more intellectual and tackle serious and relatable world problems and its done in a way that doesn’t ruin the immersion or compromise the gameplay. Kojima is a master at trying to incorporate players into the game as much as possible.

But Snake Eater and MGS4 aren't simple at all

Nothing in MGS is simple, TLOU, THAT is simple, get from point A to point B in a ****** situation, that's it.

By the way, when do you plan on playing Uncharted 4?

Not too soon, hell I bought Alien Isolation I don't remember when and I still haven't played it.

But I already ordered DOOM

 

[RavenEye]

I think Naughty Dawg fans are certainly the SJWs of gaming. I don't think many people here realize Last Of Us was basically created to please Anita Sarkeesian

Thank god Uncharted 4 was last game by NDI.

 

[pturtle]

Yeah but Joel does everything, like 90% of the killing.


In games like TLOU and Uncharted you should, the narrative is very down to earth and realistic you simply cannot reconcile the fact that they kill 50 people a day, or more, with limited resources, t's retarded.

You can't seriously think you can fix everything with tape, bolts and gears. Those are gameplay elements, they should remain in gameplay, period.

Metal Gear and GTA are surreal, they can get away with that.

But you can read between the lines, not just chug whatever devs say, I know it's a broken record in this thread and I love Kojima, but that's what Kojibros do, isn't it? They just run with whatever favors Kojima.

Well, you're doing that, but against TLOU.

Yeah he said he was an SJW, when the poor nuMales who jumped in the SJW bandwagon thought it actually meant equality and not feminist nazism.

I just pray this SJW ends soon, that's why I'm fully supporting the new DOOM. I'm just glad people are starting to roll their eyes at this ********.


But Snake Eater and MGS4 aren't simple at all

Nothing in MGS is simple, TLOU, THAT is simple, get from point A to point B in a ****** situation, that's it.


Not too soon, hell I bought Alien Isolation I don't remember when and I still haven't played it.

But I already ordered DOOM

Joel I can accept using suspension of disbelief though, Ellie not so much because it was already a stretch that Joel and Tess can clear out rooms, but Ellie by herself was just too much for me in my opinion.

Oh I disagree, I think with Uncharted you could, the story and gameplay in Uncharted goes hand in hand, if I can accept John Mcclane, or Indiana Jones doing the same thing, then why not Nathan Drake? Nothing in the gameplay really breaks the immersion at all, it fits perfectly with the tone, story, and world, TLOU it doesn’t. Most great games don’t suffer from that problem. Red Dead Redemption I believe is one of the games that tried to be as realistic as possible and it works for the most part.

Well, with Kojima its a little different just based on a lot of things he saids not being translated very well but even still why would I not trust something the creator of the game saids about making his own game? For me, its evident the mindset Druckmann had going into writing this game, and everything I see in the game really backs that up so I don’t see where I need to read between the lines.

If a Kojibro means that I’ve enjoyed every Metal Gear to date made by the man then I’ll admit I’m Kojibro, but lets be honest, I think that name was created on this board from people who believe being objective is hating everything they don’t agree with. Even in our debate, I admit, TLOU is a great game, but my views on certain things in the game is backed up by the writer/directors, I don’t see whats wrong with that though.

Well I meant straightforward in a sense that they’re isn’t really many underlying themes or anything to be left up for the player to interpret. I think they’re as straightforward as a Metal Gear from Kojima can possibly be

DOOM looks pretty fun, but I haven’t played a Doom since the first game back in the playstation days, let me know if you end up enjoying it because I might buy it.

 

[GasparZizou]

But Ellie doesn't clear any rooms the way Joel does, there are not big fire fights with Ellie, he doesn't KO anyone, etc etc, it's all sneaking around and taking out a couple people with bow and arrow or knife, it's not even comparable.

John Mcclane doesn't kill 50 people a day not even in his most crazy movies, neither does indiana Jones, and they don't regenerate health either. Nathan Drake does, Joel does, there's no comparison.

Yeah, you can sometimes not trust the creator of an IP on what he says about his IP. Case in point, the Legend of Korra dudes.

No that's not what I mean by Kojibro, I don't think I explained myself well enough, but anyway, it's not that you're not backing up your argument with the creator, it's that you're treating Ellie like she's female Thor in terms of pandering, when she's the farthest from it.

 

[pturtle]

But Ellie doesn't clear any rooms the way Joel does, there are not big fire fights with Ellie, he doesn't KO anyone, etc etc, it's all sneaking around and taking out a couple people with bow and arrow or knife, it's not even comparable.

John Mcclane doesn't kill 50 people a day not even in his most crazy movies, neither does indiana Jones, and they don't regenerate health either. Nathan Drake does, Joel does, there's no comparison.

Yeah, you can sometimes not trust the creator of an IP on what he says about his IP. Case in point, the Legend of Korra dudes.

No that's not what I mean by Kojibro, I don't think I explained myself well enough, but anyway, it's not that you're not backing up your argument with the creator, it's that you're treating Ellie like she's female Thor in terms of pandering, when she's the farthest from it.

I think in one of the Diehard movies he does actually

I’m talking within the context of the story though, as far as the Uncharted stories go, Drake doest’t get shot, only time Drake really gets hurt is in cutscenes, the player being shot and health regen isn’t really connected to the story, thats just a gameplay element that I accept because the game probably wouldn’t work without it. Ellie killing a lot of people is part of the story, though, its not really something I can ignore and to me it just felt out of place in such a grounded game. Maybe I’m the only one, but I really did find the Winter season part of the story to take away from the game because of it. I’ve said this even before watching the Neil Druckmann vids and before I even knew who Anita Sarkeesian was (thanks to you ). I just don’t see us agreeing on this

I think Kojima, and Druckmann and any good dev you should be able to since I think they’ve proven they can make quality games, and I don’t think either of them have come even close to making a bad game. I personally think every Metal Gear is great and I think the majority of the world believes the same. I’m not really the kind of person to lie or blindly follow something like some people on here tend to do, hell, just look at what I think of Bryan Singer’s latest X-Men movie

I do think Ellie is a product of some pandering, some stuff with her and Tess just felt really excessive at times, and based on everything the director has said about the game it does hurt my view of the game now, but I still think its a great game nonetheless.

I do think we have different views on pandering to SJWs though, to me a creator can do that and it could still turn out good, I just won’t enjoy it even if its good or not, and I think you only have a problem with it if it hurts the product in anyway. Metal Gear has plenty of great female characters and it just never felt forced to me, while TLOU is great, feels like it was made for a specific demographic, some stuff feels like its just there to make a point and I kinda hate that

 

[GasparZizou]

If you want tie to the story the fact that they kill like 20 enemies per room, you also have to tie the regen health, picking up bolts and tape to fix things, etc etc, because all of that is gameplay, but you shouldn't, because all of that is gameplay, also, Ellie killing a few people IS tied into the story, how else do they survive? There are gonna be occasions when Ellie is going to have to stand her own, what you shouldn't do is take it literally, the fact that Joel kills hundreds of people in this game, and again, Ellie kills nowhere near the amount of people, nor in the same fashion as Joel, whatever Ellie does is probably the most realistic part of the gameplay.

I don't think Ellie is the product of any pandering at all, there's literally no difference between them and Joel, the most excessive character of them all is still Joel, there's nothing wrong with those characters, and this is coming from the biggest SJW/PC hater in these boards.

Yeah, it's clear you're not enjoying it because of the SJW comments, but you really haven't done a good job discrediting that stuff on artistic or narrative basis, and I don't blame you, because those characters and that narrative is nearly perfect.

Of course I only hate it when it hurts the product, that's what SJW pandering is 99% of the time, that's why it's a problem, If it didn't do that I wouldn't hate that ****ing trend so much.

This game, if it has any SJW pandering at all, and considering the dates, it most likely doesn't, is the 1% that doesn't **** **** up.

 

[ZombieRepublican]

I really don't see what the problem people have with feminism. I think people have the image of the big dyke "screw men" type thing.

Anita really hasn't effected anything negatively. I do agree she goes a little overboard with some of her arguments but everyone can agree with at least a few of her points.
And even if she was extreme, it takes extreme people or actions to get change made, which normalises.

(Cough cough Malcolm X, Martin Luther)

 

[GasparZizou]

I really don't see what the problem people have with feminism. I think people have the image of the big dyke "screw men" type thing.

That's exactly what it is in this day and age, even 1st and 2nd wave feminists have divorced themselves form the modern movement.

Feminism is cancer.

Anita really hasn't effected anything negatively.

Oh you have no idea.

There are people who are starting to follow her "advise", like ND apparently.

I do agree she goes a little overboard with some of her arguments but everyone can agree with at least a few of her points.
And even if she was extreme, it takes extreme people or actions to get change made, which normalises.

I'm sure if you sit and talk to Hitler you can agree on something.

"You know vat Herr Gaspar? Cajun pepper isn't bad actually, now please step into ze oven"

 

[pturtle]

If you want tie to the story the fact that they kill like 20 enemies per room, you also have to tie the regen health, picking up bolts and tape to fix things, etc etc, because all of that is gameplay, but you shouldn't, because all of that is gameplay, also, Ellie killing a few people IS tied into the story, how else do they survive? There are gonna be occasions when Ellie is going to have to stand her own, what you shouldn't do is take it literally, the fact that Joel kills hundreds of people in this game, and again, Ellie kills nowhere near the amount of people, nor in the same fashion as Joel, whatever Ellie does is probably the most realistic part of the gameplay.

I don't think Ellie is the product of any pandering at all, there's literally no difference between them and Joel, the most excessive character of them all is still Joel, there's nothing wrong with those characters, and this is coming from the biggest SJW/PC hater in these boards.

Yeah, it's clear you're not enjoying it because of the SJW comments, but you really haven't done a good job discrediting that stuff on artistic or narrative basis, and I don't blame you, because those characters and that narrative is nearly perfect.

Of course I only hate it when it hurts the product, that's what SJW pandering is 99% of the time, that's why it's a problem, If it didn't do that I wouldn't hate that ****ing trend so much.

This game, if it has any SJW pandering at all, and considering the dates, it most likely doesn't, is the 1% that doesn't **** **** up.

Why do I have to tie all of that together though? Health Regen or any damage you really take is obviously ignored by the story and cutscenes, but the 100s of dead enemies isn’t, the story doesn’t act like they didn’t exist like your wounds. The story does continue on with no visible damage you might have received in gameplay though. Thats just something you have to accept with almost every game out there. While she isn’t clearing out rooms in the same fashion as Joel, she is doing it relatively close to how Agent 47 or even Snake does

Cmon men, Ellie is a lesbian teenage girl, with a black female love interest, who takes out almost an entire town of bad guys, saves the protagonist once or twice, and is featured on the cover of the game, far ahead of the protagonist. Not that theres anything wrong with any of that, but you can’t tell me that theres wasn’t any pandering going on here Theres plenty of articles written by feminists that love how feminist and LBGT friendly the game is.

I think I enjoy the game about the same as I did before, but everything I read and watched in regard the creation of this game really confirm everything for me, but still, I’m not saying I hate the game or its bad at all, its certainly one of the best games ever made groundbreaking even, but certain parts of the game did feel like pandering, and you say I’m doing a bad job at explaining even though writer/director basically confirmed most of what I said especially the whole Ellie Winter section, but you don’t believe him either I just think you associate pandering to SJWs as something negative and can’t see it being done successfully, where I think it could, even if I don’t like it.

But everything Joss Whedon has made in his life basically caters to the SJW crowd, and he’s been doing it since the 90s man.

 

[gokey24]

The last of us is overrated.

 

[GasparZizou]

Why do I have to tie all of that together though? Health Regen or any damage you really take is obviously ignored by the story and cutscenes, but the 100s of dead enemies isn’t, the story doesn’t act like they didn’t exist like your wounds. The story does continue on with no visible damage you might have received in gameplay though. Thats just something you have to accept with almost every game out there. While she isn’t clearing out rooms in the same fashion as Joel, she is doing it relatively close to how Agent 47 or even Snake does

Where and how do you draw the line then that isn't arbitrary then? You can't, gameplay is gameplay and story is story in cases like these.

There story DOES ignore the amount of enemies you kill, Joel ****ing kills an army.

Hell, I take what I said about GTA back, they DO ignore all the **** you do in the story, ALL OF IT.

Also, no, Ellie isn't doing it in in the same fashion as 47 or Snake, not even close, c'moon, you have to know what you're saying is bogus.

She ****ing jumps on a COUPLE guys, with knife in hand, she's not overpowering any of them, she's not choking any of them, she's not KOing any of them and certainly not even close to the body count of those guys, c'mooon man, not even comparable.

Cmon meng, Ellie is a lesbian teenage girl, with a black girlfriend, who takes out almost an entire town of bad guys, saves the protagonist once or twice, and is featured on the cover of the game, far ahead of the protagonist. Not that theres anything wrong with any of that, but you can’t tell me that theres wasn’t any pandering going on here Theres plenty of articles written by feminists that love how feminist and LBGT friendly the game is.

But those ****ers will claim anything they can sink their teeth into.

Besides, the lesbian thing, it was a teenager girl, alone with her friend, did you go to any parties ever?

Like I said, the pandering there, if there's any, and not just pretend for some PR, it's very, VERY well done and doesn't affect the product negatively, which is probably the ONLY game that has EVER done that.

and you say I’m doing a bad job at explaining even though writer/director basically confirmed most of what I said especially the whole Ellie Winter section, but you don’t believe him either I just think you associate pandering to SJWs as something negative and can’t see it being done successfully, where I think it could, even if I don’t like it.

You are not reading it correctly, I said you're not doing a good job discrediting that **** on creative/artistic/technical basis, and you are not, but I don't blame you, because the story and characters are near perfect.

I didn't say you're not backing up your posts, you are backing up your posts with the creator at face value without analyzing anything else, and if you ask me, it's to counter the trend of this thread to hate MGSV and praise TLOU, not because the argument actually holds water.

And no, he actually didn't say anything "feminist" about the Ellie section, he just explained how he shifted the player's expectations.

And I think it could be successful, there's a 1% chance it could, if there was a point, artistry and vision behind it, but then it wouldn't be pandering, would it?

But everything Joss Whedon has made in his life basically caters to the SJW crowd, and he’s been doing it since the 90s man.

And that's why all of his **** sucks, all of it, **** that ***** whipped ******.

 

[pturtle]

Where and how do you draw the line then that isn't arbitrary then? You can't, gameplay is gameplay and story is story in cases like these.

There story DOES ignore the amount of enemies you kill, Joel ****ing kills an army.

Hell, I take what I said about GTA back, they DO ignore all the **** you do in the story, ALL OF IT.

Also, no, Ellie isn't doing it in in the same fashion as 47 or Snake, not even close, c'moon, you have to know what you're saying is bogus.

She ****ing jumps on a COUPLE guys, with knife in hand, she's not overpowering any of them, she's not choking any of them, she's not KOing any of them and certainly not even close to the body count of those guys, c'mooon man, not even comparable.


But those ****ers will claim anything they can sink their teeth into.

Besides, the lesbian thing, it was a teenager girl, alone with her friend, did you go to any parties ever?

Like I said, the pandering there, if there's any, and not just pretend for some PR, it's very, VERY well done and doesn't affect the product negatively, which is probably the ONLY game that has EVER done that.


You are not reading it correctly, I said you're not doing a good job discrediting that **** on creative/artistic/technical basis, and you are not, but I don't blame you, because the story and characters are near perfect.

I didn't say you're not backing up your posts, you are backing up your posts with the creator at face value without analyzing anything else, and if you ask me, it's to counter the trend of this thread to hate MGSV and praise TLOU, not because the argument actually holds water.

And no, he actually didn't say anything "feminist" about the Ellie section, he just explained how he shifted the player's expectations.

And I think it could be successful, there's a 1% chance it could, if there was a point, artistry and vision behind it, but then it wouldn't be pandering, would it?


And that's why all of his **** sucks, all of it, **** that ***** whipped ******.

I draw the line with what turns up in the cutscenes and dialogue and what doesn’t, the enemies do show up though, just because the game doesn’t mention how many people he killed in total doesn’t erase the fact we see them show up in cutscenes and all the dialogue before and after enemy confrontations acknowledge these enemies exist. We’re going in circles with this one. so we just might have to agree to disagree.

I think you’re being a little bit to literal with this, of course theres no strong arming men, but she’s still taking dudes out stealthily and arguably more brutal than the other two by basically using stealth to her advantage, like Joel, Snake, and Agent 47 do. She uses a knife and they use their hands but their methods are almost the same.

But that friend was also her love interest, which then kinda makes that a lesbian interracial kinda thing. Yea, I tend to party a lot, I think some members in this thread can even confirm that

I don’t know man, I tend to think those feminists complain about whatever they can find, they even complained about some stuff in Uncharted 4 which I think Druckmann commented on. Last of Us, zero complaints, you don’t think theres a reason for that? It because they were finally satisfied, and want more games in the industry to be the same.


Oh, it was never my intention to discredit the game, which is probably why you think I’m doing a bad job, in fact I’m saying its a great game even though is panders to SJWs, I think this game might be the one percent man.

But the man literally saids he had an agenda before he even started working on this game, to make a cool female character that girls can look up to. Then I post a whole video on how he dissects everything and gives us his feminist point of view on everything, you choose to not accept, but I do accept them, and not because I want to hate the game but because I don’t see what he gains from this, in fact he actually gains a lot of haters by doing this nothing else really.

I didn’t mean that he spoke about the winter section specifically, my bad I kinda wrote that wrong, I was writing what he said and I meant it was especially apparent in the Winter section of the game to me, but what he saids about Ellie entirely and basically the ending of her arc is some pretty radical feminist stuff, if you believe what he saying. I posted videos with the creator pretty much backing up everything I said, and you don’t believe it which is fine, but I don’t see how you can say my argument doesn’t hold any water considering the source of my information.

So I just want to be clear, you believe everything in that video was just for PR? None of it was true?

No argument here, Whedon stuff isn’t my cup of tea


By the way, I’m no Clown Prince, I might throw in the towel soon

 

[GasparZizou]

I draw the line with what turns up in the cutscenes and dialogue and what doesn’t, the enemies do show up though, just because the game doesn’t mention how many people he killed in totally doesn’t erase the fact we see them show up in cutscenes and all the dialogue before and after enemy confrontations. We’re going in circles with this one.

That's what I mean, it's not literal, yeah he OBVIOUSLY killed people, but he didn't kill 200 people in the course of a couple days.

I think you’re being a little bit to literal with his, of course theres no strong arming men, but she’s still taking dudes out stealthily and arguably more brutal than the other two by basically using stealth to her advantage, like Joel, Snake, and Agent 47 do.

Well you are drawing literal comparisons to 47 and Snake, you have to know that is bogus man.

More brutal? No. Stealth is the opposite of brutal.

Agaaaaaaaaaain, it's not even anywhere near close being the same body count as Joel, 47, or Snake, which that alone makes the comparison completely nonsensical and non sequitur, she doesn't overpower then, she doesn't take them head on, she doesn't KO anyone, she has to use her small size and TOOLs to kill a FEW people in the game (compared to the characters you mention). So no, there's nothing even remotely unrealistic about Ellie when compared to the rest of her context, not. a. thing.

But that friend was also her love interest, which then kinda makes that a lesbian interracial kinda thing. Yea, I tend to party a lot, I think some members in this thread can even confirm that

And you've never had 2 straight chicks kiss each other for kicks and giggles?

Plus, they only have each other, it's a natural development.

I don’t know man, I tend to think those feminists complain about whatever they can find, they even complained about some stuff in Uncharted 4 which I think Druckmann commented on. Last of Us zero complaints, you don’t think theres a reason for that?

There you go, they've even complained about the ND games, despite being so SJW (according to you).

But they also claim whatever they can, rightfully or not. They're cannibalistic like that.

Oh, it was never my intention to discredit the game, which is probably why you think I’m doing a bad job, in fact I’m saying its a great game even though is panders to SJWs, I think this game might be the one percent man.

You are trying to discredit it, by saying the Ellie section and what not was unrealistic and was only there in that way due to the alleged pandering, when the Ellie section was probably the most realistic part of the game, gameplay/death toll-wise.

That and the Tess stuff.

But the man literally saids he had an agenda before he even started working on this game, to make a cool female character that girls can look up to. Then I post a whole video on how he dissects everything and gives us his feminist point of view on everything, you choose to not accept, I do because I don’t see what he gains from this, in fact he actually gains a lot of haters by doing this nothing else really.

Huh? He said he had an "awakening" right in the middle of development, judging by the date they were pretty late in development, **** if I believe they reworked everything they had to fit in Ellie and other "pandering" because of that, **** no, they had Ellie and it's beyond obvious that he's just futzing the Sarkessian thing there for some sort of approval, which is sad as ****, no denying that. Because I believe they have strong female characters in their hands without the need to give any credit to that fugly ass hag.

I didn’t mean that he spoke about the winter section specifically, my bad I kinda wrote that wrong, I was writing what he said and I meant it was especially apparent in the Winter section of the game to me, but what he saids about Ellie entirely and basically the ending of her arc. It posted videos with the creator pretty much backing everything I said up, and you don’t believe it which is fine, but I don’t see how you can say my argument doesn’t hold any water considering the source of my information.

So I just want to be clear, you believe everything in that video was just for PR? None of it was true?

Most of it.

For instance, his interpretation of the ending of Ellie's arc is forced as ****, no ****ing way Ellie is thinking "yeah I'm gonna be independent in this post-apocalyptic world", that's just retarded as **** man c'mon.

Which then leads you to doubt everything else.

No argument here, Whedon stuff isn’t my cup of tea

I was so happy when the feminists turned against him for that Black Widow thing which actually gave some depth to the character.

I hope he learned his lesson to not pander to those people.

 

[FSLAR]

MGS V is overrated.

this

And Anita is inaccurate and doesn't do proper research where she tried to cite MGS as a sexist series. If you don't think she's bad, you're wrong.

 

[pturtle]

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

That's what I mean, it's not literal, yeah he OBVIOUSLY killed people, but he didn't kill 200 people in the course of a couple days.


Well you are drawing literal comparisons to 47 and Snake, you have to know that is bogus man.

More brutal? No. Stealth is the opposite of brutal.

Agaaaaaaaaaain, it's not even anywhere near close being the same body count as Joel, 47, or Snake, which that alone makes the comparison completely nonsensical and non sequitur, she doesn't overpower then, she doesn't take them head on, she doesn't KO anyone, she has to use her small size and TOOLs to kill a FEW people in the game (compared to the characters you mention). So no, there's nothing even remotely unrealistic about Ellie when compared to the rest of her context, not. a. thing.


And you've never had 2 straight chicks kiss each other for kicks and giggles?

Plus, they only have each other, it's a natural development.


There you go, they've even complained about the ND games, despite being so SJW (according to you).

But they also claim whatever they can, rightfully or not. They're cannibalistic like that.


You are trying to discredit it, by saying the Ellie section and what not was unrealistic and was only there in that way due to the alleged pandering, when the Ellie section was probably the most realistic part of the game, gameplay/death toll-wise.

That and the Tess stuff.


Huh? He said he had an "awakening" right in the middle of development, judging by the date they were pretty late in development, **** if I believe they reworked everything they had to fit in Ellie and other "pandering" because of that, **** no, they had Ellie and it's beyond obvious that he's just futzing the Sarkessian thing there for some sort of approval, which is sad as ****, no denying that. Because I believe they have strong female characters in their hands without the need to give any credit to that fugly ass hag.


Most of it.

For instance, his interpretation of the ending of Ellie's arc is forced as ****, no ****ing way Ellie is thinking "yeah I'm gonna be independent in this post-apocalyptic world", that's just retarded as **** man c'mon.

Which then leads you to doubt everything else.


I was so happy when the feminists turned against him for that Black Widow thing which actually gave some depth to the character.

I hope he learned his lesson to not pander to those people.

I do get that she didn’t as many people as Joel, but I’m saying based on that Winter section it almost made me believe she could have
I know the game is unrealistic as it is but that was just too much to me, how often in anything remotely serious in entertainment do you see a teenager take out a bunch of grown men like that? I have seen that plenty of times with grown men though.

Oh okay thats what you meant by the party thing, well in an interview from Neil Druckmann a while back he did say that the kiss wasn’t some platonic thing, and even made a point in saying if in that same scene it were a girl and boy or even a boy and boy would people still think it was just a friendly kiss? But since you don’t give a damn about what he saids I know that doesn’t mean a thing to you

According to me they’re SJW? That came straight from Druckmann. He did an interview a while back and said he and Amy Hennig were SJWs

And yea, Last of Us and probably Life is Strange are some of the rare games I’ve seen they make no complaints about, and at least to my eyes they’re definitely aimed at pleasing a certain group of people.

Yea I found the Ellie and Tess stuff to be excessive, and you didn’t so we can just end this one by agreeing to disagree because I don’t think our opinions are going to change.

Did you watch part 3 towards the ending of the video? He saids that he had an agenda before making the game in creating a cool female character that wasn’t overly sexualize for the first time in gaming, I think its right before he speaks about the ending of the game.

I don’t man, I think the guy is a heavy duty SJW, and we normal folk don’t see things the way he does, so his interpretation on the ending which is probably the right one since he wrote the game probably looks different to us

 

[Solidus]

To touch on Zombie's point, nothing's wrong with feminism so as long as the end goal is equality. But, many of the feminists that exist today, are a rabid bunch of man-haters and attention-seeking juveniles, who're quick to accuse others of "sexism" where it doesn't exist. They even deride, threaten, and go out of their way to embarrass other women for wearing scantly-clad clothes (by choice). These are the SWJs that every sane person has a problem with. But, how that applies to TLOU, I have no idea. I don't even care that Druckmann had ties with certain feminists, because TLOU was completely devoid of any sort of social commentary, and it didn't push a neo-feminist agenda in any way. I mean, you'd really have to dissect the game, and look hard with a microscope to find anything wrong with it in that sense. I'm more under the impression, that Naughty Dog was trying to research ways on how they could create a strong female character, that's completely original in personality, compared to other games in the industry. In that sense, they succeeded long before Kojima tried (and failed) with Quiet .

 

[FSLAR]

Yeah I don't get it either the only thing I know that was changed last minute was Ellie's appearance, but Solidus hit the nail on the head on the problem with feminism today. The other thing is that generally those same feminists who are man-haters want special treatment (e.g. no equal treatment that doesn't backfire on them) and that they want less rights for men or less 'advantages' they may have.

TLoU almost doesn't have feminism (or at least the man hating variant) outside of the implied lesbian relationship with Ellie and Riley. Ellie was disempowered a LOT in the game, and Tess as well, though they were still very strong and empowering women. Joel only had the Winter segment where he was in a near-death state, where Ellie had to take care of him. The only commentary I could see is the 'you do what you can to survive' mentality, which was justified due to the setting.