Well I'm perfectly fine with discussing about mature content, but hey there's a reason I spoiler-tagged my stuff since I think it's perfectly understandable that some folks might be put off by it.
You’re 100% percent correct my friend. This pretty much sums everything up pretty nicely for people who want to know what actually happens.
The way Kojima handled the situation is genius, this hasn’t made any big news, you would think something like this would have been on every gaming website, with a poll, countless articles from gaming journalists giving their opinion it.
Hell, giving the player the option to make Commander Shepard gay or straight made far more headlines than this
I finally listened to the tapes closely again (earphones and all). Honestly from the sounds of it, this seems like the closest to what actually happened from what I can hear. Spoiler-tagging the rest if you're not comfortable talking about the mature content (which is perfectly understandable):
It's very obvious that Paz was being assaulted by one or two soldiers, but it should be noted that Skull Face always seemed to be the one who really moves around in the "scene" which makes me think he didn't do anything to Paz beyond man-handling her (ripping her clothes, grabbing her face/choking her). A lot of the time Skull Face's words denotes an instructional tone towards others in the room("Move." "Show it to him.") which meant that while he wasn't an active participant in the assault, he was the one bossing people around while actively walking between Paz and Chico (he's the only one that's given any "walking" sounds based on his boots).
But yeah, from I could tell during the torture sequences: Paz is already being assaulted just as Chico arrives -> Chico is brought in for questioning -> Skull Face makes threats of violence against the two -> Paz is whipped/beaten due to Chico's defiance -> Chico gets whipped/beaten only for Skull Face to realize he's taking the blows for Paz -> Skull Face has Paz stripped by a soldier to show her scars -> Paz is assaulted by one/two soldiers to get Chico to talk -> Skull Face gives Chico the choice to talk or assault her himself -> Chico talks (hinted that he never assaulted Paz?) -> Paz offers herself to Chico while in captivity (never know what happened here)-> Chico is forced to whip/beat Paz to get her to talk until Skull Face gets tired of it
I should mention that I only did this breakdown for analytical purposes, so I don't end up making assumptions especially when it comes to a touchy subject like this. That said, feel free to correct me on this if anyone thinks I might have skewed something.
That said, Solidus I'll admit, I've actually seen some folks defending the implementation of this on various sites, most of which outright claim that the use of an audio-tape is a smart move on Kojima's part (showing sexual violence without actually "showing" it) so it's not like Gaspar is the only one making any defensive claims about it (at least outside of SSF forums that is). While I honestly have little opinion on the matter (I'm still waiting for Phantom Pain to judge MGSV as a collective whole), I just thought I'd point that out at least.
Regarding The Boss though, I'd say she was a very lucky character in terms of execution. Kojima was under the mindset of creating a mentor-like figure that was similar to Solid Snake and that alone speaks volumes of the difference between Big Boss and Snake. I should mention that The Boss was actually supposed to wear a similar Sneaking suit to MGS1 Snake while the bossfight was set on a field of sunflowers to contrast her dark design. That said that design decision was scrapped in favor of giving her a silver/white outfit (representing "purity" perhaps?). But yeah, even with PW, what I like about The Boss is that even though she led a tortured life, it was a huge conscious decision on her part that really showed the strength of her conviction.
I probably wasn't paying enough much attention to it, but the rape audio seems to have stirred up more negative controversy than anything else whenever I search for "MGS" on Google news. And it can't be a good thing when Kojima is being labeled as a poor storyteller for his "mishandling" of such a sensitive topic.
It goes without saying, that if any developer wants to include rape to this far of an extent, they'd have to do it through audio recordings, and not cut-scene cinematics, in order to avoid problems with the region-specific censors - who may outright ban a game if they deem that it's too violent or sexually deviant in nature. So, it's not as if Kojima had a choice in this matter - or, that it was a stroke of his own genius to implement the rape material through audio recordings in the way that he did. He so was adamant to include the rape thing, and as such, he was forced to do it within allowable limits. But, even that seemed to be pushing the bounds on what people would generally deem as tolerable. And in that regard, personally, I think he crossed the line.
In any case, good job using spoiler tags. I'm too lazy to go back an re-edit my spoiler posts.
Can’t believe people are criticizing Kojima for not using rape in GZ, a little bit more nicely
I don’t know why Kojima would ever think about showing it, the tape did its job, and was subtle enough for some people to think she’s just being beaten. A majority of the reviews about the game had no problem with it, and some of these reviewers think Chico did rape Paz, so their even more upset for no reason.
Video gamers need to grow up, this is a game about war, these kinds of things happened all the time. Kojima has a story to tell, he’s telling it, and I’m glad he’s not holding back. If anyone can’t stomach whats happening in MGS V, why even buy it?
I have more of a problem with Skull Face's plan. He plants a second bomb, and it conveniently detonates right after Paz jumps out the helicopter, now thats bad writing unless we find out there was a reason for it.
So, people need to "grow up" because they're not turned on by rape and the subsequent statutory rape of a child? Your enlightenment embiggens us all.
MGS has always been a very light-hearted and unrealistic military series, which makes the subject matter of rape in the way that it was presented, all the more alarming.
It was very subtly implied that Ocelot raped Meryl, and Volgin basically did the same to Eva. But hearing recordings of the rape? Doesn't serve any purpose other than shock factor, or turning on creepos.
It was very subtly implied that Ocelot raped Meryl, and Volgin basically did the same to Eva. But hearing recordings of the rape? Doesn't serve any purpose other than shock factor, or turning on creepos.
And Kojima's not even doing it to further the storyline of MGS in any way. He said that wants to transform games into a "culture", and he believes that the only way to achieve it, is by including crazy **** that other developers have been too weary to try themselves. I would have preferred if he did this with a new IP instead of experimenting with MGS like this - and risk destroying the very identity of the series.
So, people need to "grow up" because they're not turned on by rape and the subsequent statutory rape of a child? Your enlightenment embiggens us all.
MGS has always been a very light-hearted and unrealistic military series, which makes the subject matter of rape in the way that it was presented, all the more alarming.
When did I say I was turned on by rape? Please don't make things up, but you're in this thread trying to regulate it as "PG13" thread.
I asked Dave if it was alright to post the video of the recording and he said anything that's apart of the game can be posted here.
How many times does Kojima have to say the series is going darker? Making a game like this light hearted, would be absolutely stupid with the themes and taboos Kojima is trying to tackle. That's why I'm saying if anyone can't stomach where this game is going,
they shouldn't play it, there's war movies that are way too brutal for me to watch, so I can understand if you can't handle what's happening, even though it's handled pretty good since it's not forced on to the player. Taking these things out, would be taking from the quality of the story, and go against what Kojima is trying to show, that these horrible acts happen in war, not to "turn people on", and to say something like that is pretty sick and I recommend you edit that.
It was very subtly implied that Ocelot raped Meryl, and Volgin basically did the same to Eva. But hearing recordings of the rape? Doesn't serve any purpose other than shock factor, or turning on creepos.
I was actually about to use these two examples to make
My next point, both were handled subtly, but did any of us actually feel anything for Meryl or Evawalter what happened to them? I actually find that a more disrespectful way of handling rape, because it makes it look like an every day thing for these woman and they should just move on with their lives.
12 years A Slave, was filled with torture, there is a horrible rape scene, taking those scenes out would take away from the quality of the film, because the director is purposely showing the viewer the horrible events that occurred in slavery. Kojima is trying to accomplish the same thing with MGSV
When did I say I was turned on by rape? Please don't make things up, but you're in this thread trying to regulate it as "PG13" thread.
I asked Dave if it was alright to post the video of the recording and he said anything that's apart of the game can be posted here.
How many times does Kojima have to say the series is going darker? Making a game like this light hearted, would be absolutely stupid with the themes and taboos Kojima is trying to tackle. That's why I'm saying if anyone can't stomach where this game is going,
they shouldn't play it, there's war movies that are way too brutal for me to watch, so I can understand if you can't handle what's happening, even though it's handled pretty good since it's not forced on to the player. Taking these things out, would be taking from the quality of the story, and go against what Kojima is trying to show, that these horrible acts happen in war, not to turn people on, and to say something like that is pretty sick and I recommend you edit that.
I was actually about to use these two examples to make
My next point, both were handled subtly, but did any of us actually feel anything for Meryl or Evawalter what happened to them? I actually find that a more disrespectful way of handling rape, because it makes it look like an every day thing for these woman and they should just move on with their lives.
12 years A Slave, was filled with torture, there is a horrible rape scene, taking those scenes out would take away from the quality of the film, because the director is purposely showing the viewer the horrible events that occurred in slavery. Kojima is trying to accomplish the same thing with MGSV
When did I say I was turned on by rape? Please don't make things up, but you're in this thread trying to regulate it as "PG13" thread.
I asked Dave if it was alright to post the video of the recording and he said anything that's apart of the game can be posted here.
How many times does Kojima have to say the series is going darker? Making a game like this light hearted, would be absolutely stupid with the themes and taboos Kojima is trying to tackle. That's why I'm saying if anyone can't stomach where this game is going,
they shouldn't play it, there's war movies that are way too brutal for me to watch, so I can understand if you can't handle what's happening, even though it's handled pretty good since it's not forced on to the player. Taking these things out, would be taking from the quality of the story, and go against what Kojima is trying to show, that these horrible acts happen in war, not to turn people on, and to say something like that is pretty sick and I recommend you edit that.
Maybe you should stop taking things so personally like you always do, because I wasn't even referring to you, and merely replying to the fact that you mentioned that gamers who are displeased with "rape" need to grow up?
It's an off-hand rule on this forum that things need to stay PG-13 at all times. It's the reason for why you can't go about posting sexy gifs of women, or even overly violent or gory images of anything. In that regard, I was concerned for the thread that something like the rape tapes might get it locked. But, since Dave gave the okay, you're most certainly free to post it up since it matters so much to you .
And like I was saying, a "grand experiment" like this into taboos would have been better handled with a new IP instead of MGS that has always grounded itself within a certain light-hearted mood and genre as a fantasy military series.
this was handled very well, the people seems to care more about the ending than the tapes
