Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Henry Morgan*]

The EZ gun isn’t real

I love that silly thing at least it was based of something real

 

[pturtle]

I love that silly thing at least it was based of something real

I don’t know how everyone here knows so much about guns, I only name a gun by it’s classifying name, like Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle

 

[Solidus]

The AK47 was my fav in PW.

Overall doesn't seem like a bad record at all.

I've only use the MK 22, M9, EZ gun, and MK II. No kill/no alert runs .

 

[GasparZizou]

I've only use the MK 22, M9, EZ gun, and MK II. No kill/no alert runs .

I usually just use tranq gun, then ater I get my S ranks, I go a little crazy

Eventually I get good enough and I don't need to use the tranq gun anymore, just my bare hands muahaha.

 

[Jackhepburn]

I tend to stick to using the M1A4 and Mk.22 in PW

MGS4 had fantastic attention to detail in the weapons.

 

[Jack D]

SOCOMs were standard issue to Navy Seals at the time thats why they are called SOCOMs.

No they were never standard issue. The Sig P226 is/was standard issue. Mk23s were issued in a limited capacity and were unpopular.

And yes the guns in GZ are real just with made up names. However, they are foreign weapons never used by the US Military. The rifle is a Belgian FNC and the pistol is a Chinese Type 64.

 

[Jackhepburn]

The lethal handgun is so barely used in GZ, it literally may aswell not be there.

 

[ZombieRepublican]

The SOCOM was design to take over as the Navys new gun from what i understand. The version used in MGS1 was the prototype version, so it was kinda accurate to hem at the time.

But im not a gun nut at all, but the MK23 is my fave gun next to glocks

 

[Jameson Rook]

I use to say it takes a lot for me to use the F word, and it seems like the same applies to SuperBunnyHop as well. He goes into great detail and juxtaposition on why MGSV doesn't work:



Wait a sec, he stole my Schindler's List comment!

 

[Dylan]

No they were never standard issue. The Sig P226 is/was standard issue. Mk23s were issued in a limited capacity and were unpopular.

And yes the guns in GZ are real just with made up names. However, they are foreign weapons never used by the US Military. The rifle is a Belgian FNC and the pistol is a Chinese Type 64.

No the Socom was standard issue as of 96. The 226 is the current standard issue but it wasn't until the war on Terror began. Those as for the two weapons you mentioned yea they slightly resemble real weapons but no where near the detail in the other games. The rile BB uses for instance is the inbred child an AK5 and a slew of other rifles. Here's some stuff for you to read about how made up the guns are. https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_Ground_Zeroes

 

[GasparZizou]

I use to say it takes a lot for me to use the F word, and it seems like the same applies to SuperBunnyHop as well. He goes into great detail and juxtaposition on why MGSV doesn't work:



Wait a sec, he stole my Schindler's List comment!

Wholeheartedly disagree with that guy.

GZ does tackle those issues with a sensible tact, as much as it's permitted by the issues themselves, not only that, the story flows naturally and logically, as far as I know Chico didn't get the tendons or cartilage slit, so he should be able to barely and painfully stand up, he just can't run with those nails/staples in his feet.

The ending of PW wasn't secret and it didn't need "hard grinding for days" , I'll be damned if it took me more than 1 hour to find Zadornov... Also, he used the monster hunter levels as example in reductio ad absurdum of PW's tone, while PW's tone was cartoony, the monster hunter levels were 10x more over the top and needless to say, they weren't canon.

The tapes don't give you the main information you need to know about the game, you can play the game and know the important information through the main campaign both in PW and in GZ, tons of extra information was hidden in the tapes, yet nothing essential, TLOU and Arkham do the exact same thing in form of tapes, notes and stuff.

Listening tapes while playing didn't feel like it hindered my skill, I was listening to the tapes on my second run of GZ and I got my 1st S rank, yeah, the ambient sound gets drowned as it should happen when wearing ear plugs, but I just put a little extra care on where I looked, that's it, made me feel like a badass veteran doing a mission while listening stuff with my ear plugs... But it seems that guy wants everything spoon fed to him, I bet my *** he never played the old Thief games the way he speaks, it's like playing a game is too damn tiresome for him.

"You have to unlock that through gameplay"..... ugh, today's gaming generation.

It can't be an anachronism because it's a fictional base based on a real base, not the real base itself, which allows to stretch those perceptions, there are real anachronisms but they're minor like the iDroid and such and those don't bother me at all.

>"A lot of this stuff seems like it will be explained in TPP, so GZ doesn't stand on it's own."
>Prologue



Yes GZ is supposed to be the inciting incident, so?

BB is supposed to turn into a villain, that's what everybody is expecting, you can root for villains or feel fascinated by them, that's ok.

"Ours is a society that murders the innocent" is not directed at BB, I find it clear that it's directed at Chico and maybe even at Skullface, they're both immigrants, it could even be just directed at Skullface, but clearly not at BB.

"BB is not innocent".............. Well, good.

And he keeps saying "nucular"

Nope, it was a no no for me.

If anything, he made it easier to cement and understand the notion that GZ does work imo.

 

[Solidus]

How does the storyline flow "naturally and logically", when it's the darkest game in the series that's a sequel to the most cartoony and PG-13 game in the series? I don't agree with him on everything, but I can at least appreciate that he touched on one other point that I was making in this thread - and that was in concern to Paz's torture and rape that never hit home to me as something sensible and tasteful in its delivery. Especially in regards that a 13 year old boy was forced to rape a grown woman. Instead of advancing the plot-line, it seems to me that, it was just there to show that Kojima could do it for the sake of just doing it - "hey, look guyz, I'm gonna put dark stuff like torture and rape in here, cuz I can!" LULZ!!!.

But, I find myself being strongly sympathetic to Big Boss, especially considering the evil men in the CIA like Hot Coldman that he has had to deal with. So, if Big Boss wanted to burn documents, hide ZEKE (which was developed using secret American-made weapons) and trick the world while keeping his profiteering business alive - then he should go right ahead and do it. His conversation to Huey was actually one of my favorite scenes in Ground Zeroes.

On that note, I thought that Metal Gear Solid has always worked well in its own fictional, self-contained politics - like with George Sears, The Patriots, etc. But, the one thing that has always disturbed me to an extent, is Koijma's naive take on the real-world stuff. I never really thought about it much for Ground Zeroes, because I was mainly focused on the price arguments and how the game fits into the series canon. But, speaking for myself as a New Yorker (whom 9/11 hit very close to home), I don't want terrorists anywhere near my city, my state, or my country. Enemy combatants driven by warped religious (or political) ideology of genocide and the destruction of a nation, deserve to be locked away in "black sites" without due process or constitutional liberties. There's a reason for why places like Gitmo exist - and that's to keep these murdering bastards safely locked away and isolated thousands of miles away from a society where they can do harm.

I think I also mentioned this before, and I'm surprised that the guy in the video overlooked this. But, for Sacco and Vanzetti, later evidence has shown strong support that they were indeed guilty of their crimes. Upton Sinclair who was their staunchest supporter (and a big figure in the American progressive left) wrote letters that voiced his doubts about the men's innocence. In one of his letters, he even met with their lawyer, who discussed in great detail about how the two carried out their crimes. But, he was more concerned about about the profit from selling his book "Boston", which served as a propaganda piece for bolstering the martyrdom of the two. He was also worried about the safety of his own life, if he were branded as a traitor to the Anarchist cause.

And I guess I should just copy-and-paste this from Wikipedia to show the type of criminals that these two "innocent men" - Sacco and Vanzetti cavorted with:

Italian anarchist Severino Di Giovanni, one of the most vocal supporters of Sacco and Vanzetti in Argentina, bombed the American embassy in Buenos Aires a few hours after the two men were sentenced to death.[144] A few days after the executions, Sacco's widow thanked Di Giovanni by letter for his support and added that the director of the tobacco firm Combinados had offered to produce a cigarette brand named "Sacco & Vanzetti".[144] On November 26, 1927, Di Giovanni and others bombed a Combinados tobacco shop.[144] On December 24, 1927, Di Giovanni blew up the headquarters of The National City Bank of New York and of the Bank of Boston in Buenos Aires in apparent protest of the execution.[144] In December 1928, Di Giovanni and others failed in an attempt to bomb the train in which President-elect Herbert Hoover was traveling during his visit to Argentina.[144]

Three months later, bombs exploded in the New York subway, in a Philadelphia church, and at the home of the mayor of Baltimore. One of the jurors in the Dedham trial had his house bombed, throwing him and his family from their beds. Less than a year after the executions, a bomb destroyed the front porch of the home of executioner Robert Elliott. As late as 1932, Judge Thayer's home was wrecked and his wife and housekeeper were injured in a bomb blast.[145] Afterward, Thayer lived permanently at his club in Boston, guarded 24 hours a day until his death.

But yeah, "Here's to you", Kojima-san .

 

[GasparZizou]

The story on GZ flows naturally and logically, everybody acts like they should so the gruesome parts are justified by it.

The rape served to set up Skull Face's villainy boundaries or lack thereof as well as the bombs which by primary objective had to kill BB.

There's obviously a huge discrepancy between PW and GZ's tones, yet, the canon follows the same line.


About the Sacco&Vanzetti thing, Kojima has a tendency towards these types of dudes, in PW he got Che Guevara wrong too, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't innocent and Kojima mistook them for martyrs, but unlike El Che, we'll never know, and that mitigates his decision of including those references, sort of.

 

[Solidus]

The story on GZ flows naturally and logically, everybody acts like they should so the gruesome parts are justified by it.

The rape served to set up Skull Face's villainy boundaries or lack thereof as well as the bombs which by primary objective had to kill BB.

There's obviously a huge discrepancy between PW and GZ's tones, yet, the canon follows the same line.


About the Sacco&Vanzetti thing, Kojima has a tendency towards these types of dudes, in PW he got Che Guevara wrong too.

But, the thing is Gasp, with Skull Face, his villainy will most certainly be mitigated by the fact that he's a tragic character who'll have to be redeemed - as what usually happens with the "evil" guys in MGS. And that alone makes the extent of Paz's suffering quite moot to pin him as a villain - since he was probably never a bad guy in the first place. I'm also suspicious that there was some weird agreement between Paz and Skull Face, where they mutually agreed to carry out her torture and rape in that way that would trick Big Boss - sort of the same way how Eva tricked Solid Snake by burning herself in the fire after Solidus' body. That wouldn't surprise me at all .

I'd have to say that Kojima's sense of politics doesn't give him a free-pass, when he's reaching out to fans, who are probably very ill-informed about real-world politics. A lot of kids like MGS so much, that they wouldn't even dare to question anything about this franchise - other than to affirm that it's perfect. In that sense, the series is serving as a propaganda tool in the worst possible ways.

 

[GasparZizou]

But, the thing is Gasp, with Skull Face, his villainy will most certainly be mitigated by the fact that he's a tragic character who'll have to be redeemed - as what usually happens with the "evil" guys in MGS. And that alone makes the extent of Paz's suffering quite moot to pin him as a villain - since he was probably never a bad guy in the first place. I'm also suspicious that there was some weird agreement between Paz and Skull Face, where they mutually agreed to carry out her torture and rape in that way that would trick Big Boss - sort of the same way how Eva tricked Solid Snake by burning herself in the fire after Solidus' body. That wouldn't surprise me at all .

I'd have to say that Kojima's sense of politics doesn't give him a free-pass, when he's reaching out to fans, who are probably very ill-informed about real-world politics. A lot of kids like MGS so much, that they wouldn't even dare to question anything about this franchise - other than to affirm that it's perfect. In that sense, the series is serving as a propaganda tool in the worst possible ways.

Yup, there should a big disclaimer at the beginning that says "all social and political references and ideals portrayed and applied in this work of fiction serve only to dramatic representations and should no be mistaken for propaganda" or something, to reduce the damage

I don't know about SF, many of the worst criminals have a motive for their actions, their twisted interpretation of retribution and justice is what makes them villains, even if they end up being redeemed.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Solidus]

Yup, there should a big disclaimer at the beginning that says "all social and political references and ideals portrayed and applied in this work of fiction serve only to dramatic representations and should no be mistaken for propaganda" or something, to reduce the damage

I don't know about SF, many of the worst criminals have a motive for their actions, their twisted interpretation of retribution and justice is what makes them villains, even if they end up being redeemed.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Brilliantly said .

But, in regards to MGS Villains, I think one quote applies here: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Solidus was probably even more despicable than Skull Face, because he recruited child soldiers, killed Raiden's parents, and turned him into Jack the Ripper at a young age. But, his end goal, was to free America from The Patriots. I just wonder what Skull Face's intentions are. He wants to kill Zero - which is a good thing. So, he can't be all that bad .

 

[GasparZizou]

I've been in this place for too long, when you mentioned Solidus my 1st thought was that you were referring to yourself in the 3rd person :rotl

We'll see, maybe SF gets redeemed and BB ends up the real bastard.

I'm out for today, gotta wake up early, nite bud, solid debate

 

[Solidus]

I've been in this place for too long, when you mentioned Solidus my 1st thought was that you were referring to yourself in the 3rd person :rotl

We'll see, maybe SF gets redeemed and BB ends up the real bastard.

I'm out for today, gotta wake up early, nite bud, solid debate

Lol... well, I never said I wasn't a villainous bastard . Anyways, g'night, buddy. I should go to sleep, myself .

 

[Solidus]

I find something intriguing about Skull Face. It's the fact that he's working for Cipher on the surface, but is secretly planning to eliminate Zero. The only other person in MGS who'd pull something as elaborate as that is Ocelot. So, I wonder if he and Ocelot are in cahoots with one another. It goes without saying that at this point in time, Ocelot should be deep within the ranks of Cipher/The Patriots to gather information and safeguard Big Boss's interests. But, with that said, it's strange that he wouldn't even know about SF's plan to destroy Mother Base and kill Big Boss. Especially since he's a character who's privy to everything ahead of time and plans accordingly.

 

[ronri]

I don't know about SF, many of the worst criminals have a motive for their actions, their twisted interpretation of retribution and justice is what makes them villains, even if they end up being redeemed.

Even then, just because a lot of MGS villains get redeemed, it doesn't mean all of them do, so you're not wrong for saying that Skull Face may not get any redemption at all. Liquid may have been a victim of The Patriots, but he was still shown as having a very twisted mentality in his plans (even more so than Big Boss). Solidus may have had good intentions, but his brutality was communicated well enough as Raiden's chief tormentor and as someone who employed the use of child soldiers. And most of all, there's Volgin, that guy got no such thing yet he was still a pretty entertaining and memorable enough villain. For all we know Skull Face might be treated the same way as Volgin, except possibly done a little more seriously (though the cowboy theme is already indicating a certain gimmick/motif with his character).

That said, if Skull Face DOES get redeemed, it's also possible that the narrative is simply about Big Boss putting himself down on the same level as he is and not necessarily about how we justify our actions in light of Skull Face's heinous acts (so the whole point is reversed, it's not about Skull Face's villainy but rather it's about how Big Boss develops as a "bad guy"). That alone can work in paving the way for Big Boss' path to villainy ("I'm already a demon."), where he takes things too far, enough for Miller to side with Solid Snake come Outer Heaven. Of course this is all just speculation on my part so we'll never know till the game comes out.