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[Dutchart]

I wonder if I ever explained that part of the logistics of designing Sauron's pose was based on an anatomically correct 3d human figure? As I've mentioned elsewhere, I actually went through the painstaking task of building 3d information for everything you see, so I was able to "spin the camera" so to speak to check if my pose made sense according to the slope on which he stands. After trying all possible leg positions, ( and actually standing that way myself on a similarly angled surface ) I came to the conclusion that on a slope such as Sauron is standing on, it actually is perfectly natural to position one's leg in such a way, in that circumstance. If Sauron stands any other way, he would most likely start to fall.
And although I don't mind a good rum and coke from Mr. Morgan, his body is pointing the opposite way, and standing on a flat surface, so leave him out of this!
The sculpt will make perfect sense when you see it

JV

 

[cstojano]

And here I thought he's just a pimply-faced teenager somewhere between 15-17 years of age, rude, sarcastic, and not too bright.

But that explains it.....he's frustrated/concerned about a PF that hasn't been produced yet because based on his expertise in the field of human physiology the left leg in Jerry's artwork doesn't work for him. This frustration logically lead him take a shot at Jerry [accusing him of price-gouging], and when Jerry calmly explained himself he fired back with another pointless, smart a$$ remark.....does that about sum things up?

As for the pose it looks completely natural to me. I don't see anything weak or feminine about a Sauron with his foot firmly planted on the helm and skull of a High Elven warrior and the results of his devastating power and wickedness displayed all around him. Nor do I see a leg positioned behind the body.....

Is the foot on the helmet? I can't tell, it looks to me like he is stepping over it. JV keeps mentioning this walking downhill thing, I can't see the perspective I guess. That is the edge of a cliff in the foreground right?

I suppose if not the left leg then something else would be picked on. The issue of the feminine nature of the pose, well I do see it. And while it may be anatomically correct, that alone doesn't make it feminine or not. I mean Sauron could be sipping tea with his pinky outstretched and that would be anatomically correct, but feminine

 

[Centurion]

I'll take mine without the cup of tea, thank you.
But maybe include it as an accessory, just in case.

 

[WrathofSauron]

Well for what its worth I am a corrective exercise specialist and I actually study human kinesiology and I can tell you that pose for that incline is totally accurate, if he were to straighten that leg out he would have a Michael Jackson (a la Smooth Criminal video) thing going on!!

Stunning work Jerry and nice to see a fresh take on the Dark Lord!

 

[Dutchart]

Well for what its worth I am a corrective exercise specialist and I actually study human kinesiology and I can tell you that pose for that incline is totally accurate, if he were to straighten that leg out he would have a Michael Jackson (a la Smooth Criminal video) thing going on!!

Stunning work Jerry and nice to see a fresh take on the Dark Lord!

Thank you WOS! Amen!

JV

 

[fuzzylojiks]

I wonder if I ever explained that part of the logistics of designing Sauron's pose was based on an anatomically correct 3d human figure? As I've mentioned elsewhere, I actually went through the painstaking task of building 3d information for everything you see, so I was able to "spin the camera" so to speak to check if my pose made sense according to the slope on which he stands. After trying all possible leg positions, ( and actually standing that way myself on a similarly angled surface ) I came to the conclusion that on a slope such as Sauron is standing on, it actually is perfectly natural to position one's leg in such a way, in that circumstance. If Sauron stands any other way, he would most likely start to fall.
And although I don't mind a good rum and coke from Mr. Morgan, his body is pointing the opposite way, and standing on a flat surface, so leave him out of this!
The sculpt will make perfect sense when you see it

JV

I totally understand that but the pose still looks a bit awkward to me and won't translate well into 3D, sorry to say. Not to impune your art which I think is top notch. It's good that artists on this board can take critique well.

 

[Dutchart]

At this point, folks are just going to have to wait until they see this sculpt. Of course I have an advantage, because I'm "in the know" on a few things going on behind the curtain

JV

 

[Centurion]

Bring it! Proto pics of the sculpt please!

 

[woodsy]

At this point, folks are just going to have to wait until they see this sculpt. Of course I have an advantage, because I'm "in the know" on a few things going on behind the curtain

JV

You know Jerry, the recent [and disturbing] trend around here these days is for Freaks to slam just about every PF SS produces based on the preview photo's. But I think I see a new trend developing....lets start bashing SS's PF's before they're ever produced....and lets start with Sauron Now as much as I'd like to believe the wise council of board members who've never seen so much as a sneak peek of this statue....I think I'm going to have to go with you on this one.

 

[Gates70]

You know Jerry, the recent [and disturbing] trend around here these days is for Freaks to slam just about every PF SS produces based on the preview photo's. But I think I see a new trend developing....lets start bashing SS's PF's before they're ever produced....and lets start with Sauron Now as much as I'd like to believe the wise council of board members who've never seen so much as a sneak peek of this statue....I think I'm going to have to go with you on this one.

Couldn't agree more and it's really annoying. I wonder sometimes what the average age is of the people that come on here sometimes. Most of the people that do the bashing are the people that can't even afford these PFs anyways.

 

[cstojano]

Couldn't agree more and it's really annoying. I wonder sometimes what the average age is of the people that come on here sometimes. Most of the people that do the bashing are the people that can't even afford these PFs anyways.

I'm in my late 30s and perhaps have been bashing the piece. I wouldn't call it bashing though, I would call it discussing but that wouldn't be as provocative as calling it bashing while insulting everyone who has expressed some concern. Can I ask why this thread exists if we are not supposed to discuss PFs when they are announced? Maybe mods should lock these threads until we have the pre-order. Give me a break. People are discussing the piece based on the JV art. We are hearing how it will rock based on the art, some are concerned about the pose, some are not. Most have made good points about the left leg, I pointed out that anatomically correct or not the post about a feminine pose is fair as the two are unrelated. I get it. Sauron is walking sideways downhill toward the edge of cliff while stepping on the helmet of a deceased enemy. Seriously if we are only allowed to "cheerlead" then close these threads down to avoid premature discussion.

 

[woodsy]

Couldn't agree more and it's really annoying. I wonder sometimes what the average age is of the people that come on here sometimes. Most of the people that do the bashing are the people that can't even afford these PFs anyways.

That is something I have been wondering myself lately. Seems to me the number of witless teens/early twenties frequenting this board is on the steady increase and as a result rational, intelligent discussion is going right out the window.

Personally speaking, I don't think the perfect statue exists as someone is always going to find fault with some aspect of any statue. Legitimate complaints/concerns about a statue based on in hand observations or a wealth of quality photo's is one thing....criticizing a statue before it's even been produced....well now you're entering a level of stupidity that's unheard of....even here.

 

[cstojano]

But we do have the concept art on which its based. People saying it will rock are no different from those saying it won't; all statements are based on an unproduced statue.

 

[willocrew]

Three points I'll like to make.

Firstly there is no bashing going on here. This is merely a slight disagreement with JV's artistic interpretation insofar as it concerns the leg pose. For an example of real forum bashing I'll refer you to the rpf forums and more specifically the efx vader thread that has now been closed.

Secondly, the matter in issue isn't whether the pose is natural or not but rather whether it is appropriate for the character in question. Admittedly, my reservations towards this particular pose has dimished over the weeks but I still harbor some doubts.

Finally, there is value to be had in providing constructive criticism on these boards and even more so when the item of concern is still in the development stage. One could say that it is perhaps more prudent to raise issue with the item now then when things are finalised with no hope of redress.

What we need is an environment of constructive discussion where people feel more inclined to give full constructive feedback. At the moment we've only got comments as to how folks dislike the pose but no actual suggestions as to how sideshow may go about rectifying it. I suspect this might change if people modify their approach.

At the end of the day, the objective is to get a feel of how many people are opposed to this particular pose. If they are but a minority, then the old adage of majority wins applies.

 

[mr.thrifty]

You know Jerry, the recent [and disturbing] trend around here these days is for Freaks to slam just about every PF SS produces based on the preview photo's. But I think I see a new trend developing....lets start bashing SS's PF's before they're ever produced....and lets start with Sauron Now as much as I'd like to believe the wise council of board members who've never seen so much as a sneak peek of this statue....I think I'm going to have to go with you on this one.

Remove the sack woodsy.......we're all just talking......

I'm in my late 30s and perhaps have been bashing the piece. I wouldn't call it bashing though, I would call it discussing but that wouldn't be as provocative as calling it bashing while insulting everyone who has expressed some concern. Can I ask why this thread exists if we are not supposed to discuss PFs when they are announced? Maybe mods should lock these threads until we have the pre-order. Give me a break. People are discussing the piece based on the JV art. We are hearing how it will rock based on the art, some are concerned about the pose, some are not. Most have made good points about the left leg, I pointed out that anatomically correct or not the post about a feminine pose is fair as the two are unrelated. I get it. Sauron is walking sideways downhill toward the edge of cliff while stepping on the helmet of a deceased enemy. Seriously if we are only allowed to "cheerlead" then close these threads down to avoid premature discussion.

 

[woodsy]

Remove the sack woodsy.......we're all just talking......

Since I don't have the slightest clue what that means, I'll hold off on commenting.....just as I'll hold off on commenting on how well or poorly the 2D conceptual artwork of Sauron translates into 3D statue form. Now once I've actually seen the Sauron prototype I'll decide for myself whether it works or not....but until then, I'll take the word of the only person around here who has actually seen the prototype when he says it does.

As for Jerry's artwork, I couldn't care less whether people like it or not. If you like it, buy it....if not, don't. But at least in the case of Jerry's artwork we all have the ability to make an informed decision based on the fact we can see the finished product. What kind of informed decisions are those who have unequivocally stated the artwork won't translate well in 3D making? Better yet, why would anyone even want to speculate on something they've never seen or know anything about? Just because someone can share an opinion, doesn't necessarily make it prudent to do so...esp. when it concerns a subject one knows nothing about.

 

[mr.thrifty]

Since I don't have the slightest clue what that means, I'll hold off on commenting.....just as I'll hold off on commenting on how well or poorly the 2D conceptual artwork of Sauron translates into 3D statue form. Now once I've actually seen the Sauron prototype I'll decide for myself whether it works or not....but until then, I'll take the word of the only person around here who has actually seen the prototype when he says it does.

...and he is going to defend every aspect of his artwork....so you have to take that with a grain of salt...

As for Jerry's artwork, I couldn't care less whether people like it or not. If you like it, buy it....if not, don't. But at least in the case of Jerry's artwork we all have the ability to make an informed decision based on the fact we can see the finished product. What kind of informed decisions are those who have unequivocally stated the artwork won't translate well in 3D making? Better yet, why would anyone even want to speculate on something they've never seen or know anything about? Just because someone can share an opinion, doesn't necessarily make it prudent to do so...esp. when it concerns a subject one knows nothing about.

But you're just "speculating" on how great it will look if based on that pic and I'm saying that the left leg's stance looks feminine...





Oh and you do know what I meant......

 

[willocrew]

Looking at the piece up close and in person doesn't always help. Why? Because the size and sheer wow factor of having the actual price right in front of you can affect your judgment. Thats what happened with the morgul lord piece. The pose wasn't the best, but when you have 27 inches of baddassery displayed in front of you, it doesn't look so bad.

So, ironically, the better way to judge a statute's pose IMO is to look at it's 2d image. The average person has witnessed normal human movements 24/7 since birth so I'll wager they'll know a thing or two about what a normal pose would look like and wouldn't need a 360 viewing. Guys, please, this isn't an abstract IQ spatial test!

Further, the issue before us is whether the pose is appropriate for Sauron (does it give an aura of grandeur) and not whether it is awkward/unnatural. And one doesn't need 360 viewing to make an informed judgment on this.

 

[mr.thrifty]

Sideshow seems to have issues with left legs as of late.....

 

[The Josh]

To me the pose looks as if he's standing there surveying his lands and the lands he wants to take. It has an understated power that to me comes across quite clearly.