Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

No the book came out so much later because both lucas films and disney knew people were pissed off they didnt get a real explanation for palpatine so they added it into the novel. It was actually a pretty big deal and people like me were looking forward to reading it to find out what happened. You cant bring back someone who obviously dies then just shows up in the last movie without proper explanation its bad story telling and filmmaking- atleast the acknowledged this with the book and tried to give people and explanation that made sense with what they showed in the movie eg the Cloned Snokes and the Timeline for the son's age since he was not born during the OT (so he fits in the story's timeline to be old enough to be Rey's dad)

Why wasnt he born in the during the OT.. I thought Khev figured that out for you..

Or is it you just have to have an answer.. And to that I say "midichlorians" You dont have to have it all spelled out for you.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Why wasnt he born in the during the OT.. I thought Khev figured that out for you..

Or is it you just have to have an answer.. And to that I say "midichlorians" You dont have to have it all spelled out for you.

Khev is just making stuff up his Ideas are no more canon then that excerpt you posted from the now de-canonized book. The true canon is the movie and the novelization, since the movie was silient on when and how the son was born the book takes precedence over Khev's head cannon unless he is GL himself but i know he isnt cause he bad mouths old george too much to be him lol. Honestly, if i was to tell you bvs theatrical was the best movie in the world and then you list all the plot holes and then cite even the book written by the same people but it increases the plot holes not solves them yet i defend it passionately and refuse to acknowledge them with made up stories to defend it people should rightfully think i was nuts. This is whats happening here and some of these people defending this trash movie full of plot holes attacked that other movie like no other. So sometimes people arent so different after all maybe instead of being so big headed people can admit hey its ****ed up movie but i like it so what. You dont have to defend it with lies and made up head canon not shown in the movie then discount the second source of canon as ********. Just say you like a very flawed movie, its ok to say that. IM not scared to say i like Man of Steel or BVS Ultimate cut regardless of what other people think. I mean yes BVS had issues i accept that doesnt mean i have to fight them as if they arent real, i just enjoy the movie and others dont -its that simple the end. I don't get this urge to try an prove a point based on your opinion especially when you refuse to acknowledge anything as real but your own opinion even when presented with excerpts of the official novel of the ****ing Rise of Skywalker movie that was published, and approved by Disney and lucas arts to complete the story-The same people that approved the movie. I know Disney is dumb as **** but your telling me they had people add stories to the book that they didn want in there to tell the complete story. Disney doesn't do **** like that

 

[ajp4mgs]

Khev is just making stuff up his Ideas are no more canon then that excerpt you posted from the now de-canonized book. The true canon is the movie and the novelization, since the movie was silient on when and how the son was born the book takes precedence over Khev's head cannon unless he is GL himself but i know he isnt cause he bad mouths old george too much to be him lol.

The idea of there being an official canon that reflects the "actual truth" is silly. Why does someone who had nothing to do with writing the movie get to dictate to you in a novel what happens offscreen? Especially considering there have been novels written in the Disney era that have since been contradicted by TROS. So why should anything in the books be considered "official" at all? The contradictions prove they're *not* official.

Years before that, the movies themselves couldn't even keep things consistent. Like how the SE Vader conversation with the Emperor in ESB completely changes his awareness of having a son. Years of movie canon changed significantly. That's how totally arbitrary all of this is. Enjoy it however you want.

Do you need a book to explain to you why Vader was oblivious to Leia being his daughter when he personally interrogated her? Or how Owen could forget C-3PO after he'd lived with him for years? Or why Luke and Leia weren't trained earlier? Or why Vader ordered the hyperdrive of the Falcon deactivated on Bespin instead of making the entire ship inoperable?

I assume you have your own answers for dozens of ambiguities like this throughout the saga. You don't need some author (who worked on the screenplay no more than you did) to do your thinking for you.

If anything, TROS strongly suggests a biological offspring via the dialogue, rather than some failed clone. But if you prefer Palps Jr. be a non-identical clone, go with it. The movie leaves it open enough to interpret whatever you like best, no matter what Joe/Jane Schmo writes in some novel after the fact.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The idea of there being an official canon that reflects the "actual truth" is silly. Why does someone who had nothing to do with writing the movie get to dictate to you in a novel what happens offscreen? Especially considering there have been novels written in the Disney era that have since been contradicted by TROS. So why should anything in the books be considered "official" at all? The contradictions prove they're *not* official.

Years before that, the movies themselves couldn't even keep things consistent. Like how the SE Vader conversation with the Emperor in ESB completely changes his awareness of having a son. Years of movie canon changed significantly. That's how totally arbitrary all of this is. Enjoy it however you want.

Do you need a book to explain to you why Vader was oblivious to Leia being his daughter when he personally interrogated her? Or how Owen could forget C-3PO after he'd lived with him for years? Or why Luke and Leia weren't trained earlier? Or why Vader ordered the hyperdrive of the Falcon deactivated on Bespin instead of making the entire ship inoperable?

I assume you have your own answers for dozens of ambiguities like this throughout the saga. You don't need some author (who worked on the screenplay no more than you did) to do your thinking for you.

If anything, TROS strongly suggests a biological offspring via the dialogue, rather than some failed clone. But if you prefer Palps Jr. be a non-identical clone, go with it. The movie leaves it open enough to interpret whatever you like best, no matter what Joe/Jane Schmo writes in some novel after the fact.

I m not disagreeing compeltely with what you said however its wierd seeing you defend the plot hole ridden movie that is tros when you didnt even like it. What the end game of this post to just support your buddies or make yourself look like a hypocrite defending a movie you didnt even like. We are on the same side my friend with this movie its not tlj (i know we dont agree on that one)

 

[ajp4mgs]

I m not disagreeing compeltely with what you said however its wierd seeing you defend the plot hole ridden movie that is tros when you didnt even like it. What the end game of this post to just support your buddies or make yourself look like a hypocrite defending a movie you didnt even like. We are on the same side my friend with this movie its not tlj (i know we dont agree on that one)

My opinion that TROS was a bad movie doesn't change the fact that I recognize that *every* SW movie leaves something that goes unanswered. That's all I'm saying in that post. What *would* actually make me a hypocrite, though, would be pretending that TROS is the first SW movie not to have a satisfying answer to a plot point in it. Whether it's Sifo-Dyas in AOTC, or Plagueis in ROTS, or the more minor stuff in the OT . . . this stuff happens. Inconsistencies and ambiguities allow fans to fill in the gaps. We don't need "official" novels.

Railing on any fan for using head canon with a franchise that practically demands it is a weird flex, IMO. And no one here needs me to defend him. Everyone involved in this conversation is perfectly capable of defending himself.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap Kush

You have to be trolling at this point because this is literally what is happening:

Kush: What is 1 + 1

Khev/JAWS: 2

Kush: THAT MAKES NO SENSE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION WHAT IS 1 + 1!

Khev/JAWS: 2

Kush: You guys are ignoring my question with double talk because you can?t give a good answer, I GOT YOU HAHA I GOT YOU!

Khev/JAWS: We miss ajp

Ducky: I?m here to conquer bitches! PT did everything right, ST did everything wrong! ROTS/Filoni > ESB just ask aussie!

Khev/JAWS: Christ...just repost Wor-Gar savage post and lets get the hell out of here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

My opinion that TROS was a bad movie doesn't change the fact that I recognize that *every* SW movie leaves something that goes unanswered. That's all I'm saying in that post. What *would* actually make me a hypocrite, though, would be pretending that TROS is the first SW movie not to have a satisfying answer to a plot point in it. Whether it's Sifo-Dyas in AOTC, or Plagueis in ROTS, or the more minor stuff in the OT . . . this stuff happens. Inconsistencies and ambiguities allow fans to fill in the gaps. We don't need "official" novels.

Railing on any fan for using head canon with a franchise that practically demands it is a weird flex, IMO. And no one here needs me to defend him. Everyone involved in this conversation is perfectly capable of defending himself.

Well then just say its a bad movie uou dont need any buts to help those people trying to pass head canon as facts when the novelization of the movie does that for them quite clearly and it was added specifically due to the backlash of no explanation for palps surviving the fall or how he has a son. Like it or not thats part of the rise of skywalker story and official canon of the st. Nobody’s private head canon can wish it away it is what it is- but these people speak as if their opinions are actual canon or part of the actual story like they helped write the movie or the actual writers were wrong lol- talk about delusions of grandeur

 

[JAWS]

No the book came out so much later because both lucas films and disney knew people were pissed off they didnt get a real explanation for palpatine so they added it into the novel. It was actually a pretty big deal and people like me were looking forward to reading it to find out what happened. You cant bring back someone who obviously dies then just shows up in the last movie without proper explanation its bad story telling and filmmaking- atleast the acknowledged this with the book and tried to give people an explanation that made sense with what they showed in the movie eg the Cloned Snokes and the Timeline for the son's age since he was not born during the OT (so he fits in the story's timeline to be old enough to be Rey's dad). Had he been born naturally he would have inherited his fathers powers like rey did and the rest of the skywalker family. Moreover had he been born during the OT (naturally) Palpatine would have groomed him and dumped both vader and luke

Here is where we differ so.. The timeline works for him to be palps son.. I dont know why you think it doesn't. You will have to spell that one out for me. If he was 30 when rey was 19 in TFA.. Lets say the dad is 30 like the actor when he leaves her... That means the dad was born during the evens of ANH... Correct.. Rey was born 18 years after ROTJ.

Why cant that work..

Your issue is that you think Palps would know for sure that he had a son. Like I said I have no issue with thinking Palps got tail. If he had a son obviously he did.

I also have no problem with thinking that Palps son was hidden from him.. I mean nobody knew Luke and Leia were alive.. Perhaps after death or slightly before he found out.. But his son was too old and could not be turned. But seeing it was the birth of Rey that made him realize there was another potential power like him.

Maybe talent skips a generation.. I mean Luke and Leia makes a bit more sense they are direct decedents of someone who was made from the force (I really hate that.. Ruins the line "Luke the Force runs strong in your family" That statement makes you think there is a history to the skywalkers that goes beyond on father)

Yes this is head canon but like I said.. I like my SW to have a little bit of made up history. I use to have to do that for years before the PT was made. So its just something I am use to.

So the book comes along and adds things to appease the fans.. Ok.. You have lost me a bit.. Is the Jar of Snokes to explain that he himself is a clone or that his son is?? You kind of had said both.. I thought it was to hint that he was a clone and then Hobbit boy hints at it..

But no such thing is ever hinted at by the movie.

If an Extended cut comes out and says Yep. He is a clone.. I really wont care that much accept that its ****ing stupid that they call her a granddaughter and Its much more poetic when one is the grandchild of Vader and the other a grandchild of Palps.

But it really wont effect my enjoyment one way or the other.. Because it still gives a reason to why Rey is over powered.. Like I said I can accept her being good at things when the power originates with the villain. I would not like it if she was the descendent of a hero.

Khev is just making stuff up his Ideas are no more canon then that excerpt you posted from the now de-canonized book. The true canon is the movie and the novelization, since the movie was silient on when and how the son was born the book takes precedence over Khev's head cannon unless he is GL himself but i know he isnt cause he bad mouths old george too much to be him lol. Honestly, if i was to tell you bvs theatrical was the best movie in the world and then you list all the plot holes and then cite even the book written by the same people but it increases the plot holes not solves them yet i defend it passionately and refuse to acknowledge them with made up stories to defend it people should rightfully think i was nuts. This is whats happening here and some of these people defending this trash movie full of plot holes attacked that other movie like no other. So sometimes people arent so different after all maybe instead of being so big headed people can admit hey its ****ed up movie but i like it so what. You dont have to defend it with lies and made up head canon not shown in the movie then discount the second source of canon as ********. Just say you like a very flawed movie, its ok to say that. IM not scared to say i like Man of Steel or BVS Ultimate cut regardless of what other people think. I mean yes BVS had issues i accept that doesnt mean i have to fight them as if they arent real, i just enjoy the movie and others dont -its that simple the end. I don't get this urge to try an prove a point based on your opinion especially when you refuse to acknowledge anything as real but your own opinion even when presented with excerpts of the official novel of the ****ing Rise of Skywalker movie that was published, and approved by Disney and lucas arts to complete the story-The same people that approved the movie. I know Disney is dumb as **** but your telling me they had people add stories to the book that they didn want in there to tell the complete story. Disney doesn't do **** like that

I think you missed the part where Khev and I have said there are only two great SW movies in the Skywalker saga and the rest are problematic.

There seems to be this urge by people to force us to agree with them on how bad the film is. We defend the film because most of the complaints are stuff we like.

I dont disagree that the ST is a mess.. Ho can I disagree.. I freaking hated it until the last movie came out. But TROS was a fun SW movie for me. The most fun since the OT. Warts and all. We seem to have plenty of PT fans here that want to bash on TROS while they have their own ugly wart on their nose.. So yeah I have an issue with that big time.

I honestly am not even sure what we are arguing about when it comes to Palps having a son or not because in the end it does not really matter. I mean I get it.. The book had to make something up about a faulty clone that looked nothing like palps and was fine physically but he had no force powers.. You need that.. Me not so much. If it turns out be true fine.

My issues with TROS tend to be that it has to follow the first two so it almost feels like its own movie and is not part of a trilogy, some of the early pacing, and that stupid cave and all the dumb stuff that came from it (snakes and knives )

Its not perfect but its SW and IMO the best SW since Empire.. Yep...Even better then Jedi.. I dont think I would have said that before watching Jedi this last time.. But man.. Its just a chore t sit through.. I am willing to concede that my opinion could change and Jedi could take the lead again.. I said this many pages ago that I have a love hate relationship with it. So maybe next time I watch it its on my good side again.

But I ramble.. I think you would agree that I have said the entire ST has problems with plot holes and is a messy story overall... So I think I have admitted the very thing you are saying. But I will defend my enjoyment of it.

Wasnt it me and you that had that come to Jesus moment when I posted everything I loved and you said you liked it the first time but hated it the 2nd.. I cant remember. Too many conversations with too many people

 

[JAWS]

The idea of there being an official canon that reflects the "actual truth" is silly. Why does someone who had nothing to do with writing the movie get to dictate to you in a novel what happens offscreen? Especially considering there have been novels written in the Disney era that have since been contradicted by TROS. So why should anything in the books be considered "official" at all? The contradictions prove they're *not* official.

Years before that, the movies themselves couldn't even keep things consistent. Like how the SE Vader conversation with the Emperor in ESB completely changes his awareness of having a son. Years of movie canon changed significantly. That's how totally arbitrary all of this is. Enjoy it however you want.

Do you need a book to explain to you why Vader was oblivious to Leia being his daughter when he personally interrogated her? Or how Owen could forget C-3PO after he'd lived with him for years? Or why Luke and Leia weren't trained earlier? Or why Vader ordered the hyperdrive of the Falcon deactivated on Bespin instead of making the entire ship inoperable?

I assume you have your own answers for dozens of ambiguities like this throughout the saga. You don't need some author (who worked on the screenplay no more than you did) to do your thinking for you.

If anything, TROS strongly suggests a biological offspring via the dialogue, rather than some failed clone. But if you prefer Palps Jr. be a non-identical clone, go with it. The movie leaves it open enough to interpret whatever you like best, no matter what Joe/Jane Schmo writes in some novel after the fact.

Yep.. Why is Everyone better at explaining things then me.. ,

I m not disagreeing compeltely with what you said however its wierd seeing you defend the plot hole ridden movie that is tros when you didnt even like it. What the end game of this post to just support your buddies or make yourself look like a hypocrite defending a movie you didnt even like. We are on the same side my friend with this movie its not tlj (i know we dont agree on that one)

Ouch.. That is kinda Catty

My opinion that TROS was a bad movie doesn't change the fact that I recognize that *every* SW movie leaves something that goes unanswered. That's all I'm saying in that post. What *would* actually make me a hypocrite, though, would be pretending that TROS is the first SW movie not to have a satisfying answer to a plot point in it. Whether it's Sifo-Dyas in AOTC, or Plagueis in ROTS, or the more minor stuff in the OT . . . this stuff happens. Inconsistencies and ambiguities allow fans to fill in the gaps. We don't need "official" novels.

Railing on any fan for using head canon with a franchise that practically demands it is a weird flex, IMO. And no one here needs me to defend him. Everyone involved in this conversation is perfectly capable of defending himself.

SW has been made for head Canon from the beginning.

Well then just say its a bad movie uou dont need any buts to help those people trying to pass head canon as facts when the novelization of the movie does that for them quite clearly and it was added specifically due to the backlash of no explanation for palps surviving the fall or how he has a son. Like it or not thats part of the rise of skywalker story and official canon of the st. Nobody?s private head canon can wish it away it is what it is- but these people speak as if their opinions are actual canon or part of the actual story like they helped write the movie or the actual writers were wrong lol- talk about delusions of grandeur

Is it that you don't like him coming in because he crushed your argument??

Khev and I are talking about what is shown on screen.

You are talking about what some guy who had nothing to do with the film wrote. Basically his own Head Canon

 

[JAWS]

Holy crap Kush

You have to be trolling at this point because this is literally what is happening:

Kush: What is 1 + 1

Khev/JAWS: 2

Kush: THAT MAKES NO SENSE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION WHAT IS 1 + 1!

Khev/JAWS: 2

Kush: You guys are ignoring my question with double talk because you can?t give a good answer, I GOT YOU HAHA I GOT YOU!

Khev/JAWS: We miss ajp

Ducky: I?m here to conquer bitches! PT did everything right, ST did everything wrong! ROTS/Filoni > ESB just ask aussie!

Khev/JAWS: Christ...just repost Wor-Gar savage post and lets get the hell out of here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Khev knows when to get out.

I just have nothing better to talk about... Man this Covid thing needs to end so I can talk about a new movie.

 

[Prime Clone]

Maybe JJ truly thought a clone of Palpatine would be considered his son, cause he doesn't fully grasp genetics until other people watched it and were like hey dude this don't make sense. Another poster even said that Jango called Boba his son but he was nothing more then a younger clone of his father then the other clones just without the order 66 chip.

Maybe a "failed" clone is more like a son than a perfect one? And Jango *did* raise Boba as his son. SW is full of surrogate fathers!

 

[Prime Clone]

Then, Lucas really took charge for the PT -- even taking on what he said he hated: directing. All three movies in fact. Why? Control. Nothing more.

He actually asked others to direct but they declined - because they knew he'd be controlling.

 

[JAWS]

Maybe a "failed" clone is more like a son than a perfect one? And Jango *did* raise Boba as his son. SW is full of surrogate fathers!

I think Palps would have a hard time calling a failed clone a son..




Anyways.. I am thankful for all this debate from everyone.. I really dont know what i would do right now with this covid crap.. I mean how else am I going to waste time at work

 

[Prime Clone]

The idea of there being an official canon that reflects the "actual truth" is silly. Why does someone who had nothing to do with writing the movie get to dictate to you in a novel what happens offscreen? Especially considering there have been novels written in the Disney era that have since been contradicted by TROS. So why should anything in the books be considered "official" at all? The contradictions prove they're *not* official.

Makes a mockery of the whole Story Group.

I think Palps would have a hard time calling a failed clone a son..

Yes, was thinking the same.

 

[jye4ever]

I think Palps would have a hard time calling a failed clone a son..




Anyways.. I am thankful for all this debate from everyone.. I really dont know what i would do right now with this covid crap.. I mean how else am I going to waste time at work

7 months after TROS release we are still talking about TROS as if it came out last weekend even Wor-Gar returned lol

 

[Prime Clone]

This timeline from the TROS Visual Dictionary doesn't shed any light on the whole clone thing - but it's still an interesting sequence of events! (SI = Starkiller Incident)

 

[Wor-Gar]

What a dazzlingly uninteresting back history. This one born, that one born, sensing dark side, training, picking tomatoes, etc... Nothing much about "The New Republic". And there's still a resistance -- for what? Old times sake? Leia's part of a paramilitary group -- against who? First Order hasn't formed yet.


Leia ousted by scandal?

Military core grows in secret while spiritual core grows somewhere even more hidden?

 

[Prime Clone]

When you put it like that:

Yes, I thought it was interesting Leia formed the Resistance after being ousted from the New Republic - as if it’s against the Republic.

Unless she was trying to convince them of the danger of the FO, a la Jor-El on Krypton?

And by TFA the Resistance has the New Republic’s backing. Maybe the FO was considered a common, more dangerous enemy?

It’s also a reminder the events of TFA and TLJ all happen in the space of a few days.

 

[jye4ever]

What a dazzlingly uninteresting back history. This one born, that one born, sensing dark side, training, picking tomatoes, etc... Nothing much about "The New Republic". And there's still a resistance -- for what? Old times sake? Leia's part of a paramilitary group -- against who? First Order hasn't formed yet.


Leia ousted by scandal?

Military core grows in secret while spiritual core grows somewhere even more hidden?

Yet you still bought HT from the ST lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Maybe a "failed" clone is more like a son than a perfect one? And Jango *did* raise Boba as his son. SW is full of surrogate fathers!

Exactly star wars has some twisted ideas of father son relationships not to mention a thing for clones (disney cant stop the damn clone cartoons lol), plus as you said they have already referred to a clone as a son in atoc so its already been pretty much established in movie canon. The idea of palpatine banging some ***** is just utterly laughable to me and just ruins the allure of his character. First nothing was ever shown on screen he even liked women, if anything I always thought he Had a thing for boys like anikan esp the way he looked at him. After the events of rots all dude cared about was unlimited power, endless power And extending his reach beyond the outter rim. He also wanted to live forever in his own skin and was actually hoping he could use the chosen one Anakin to help him unlock those powers, but obi wan ****ed vader up and he went to plan b) use vader until he can groom another to replace him right now. He was too busy plotting, scheming, setting up contingency on top of contingency and running the galactic empire Itself, he didnt care raising no ****ing son, and if had a son naturally again his son would have inherited his power and been a threat to him. Or as i said earlier he would have killed vader on the spot and groomed his son as a replacement. Sith cant make babies, hell once anakin went completely vader you could tell sex with the padme was furthest thing from his mind all he wanted do was conquer the galaxy just like old palps. Constant lust for power like a vampire needs blood, sex is trivial to them, their pleasure is power