Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

So just because TLJ tossed aside all of the fan theories that’s now proof that they’re making it up as they go along?

So let me get this straight Disney is paying God knows how many employees JUST SO Rian can come in last second and make up his own story on his own!

Yes. And TLJ didn't just toss aside fan theories but the actual storylines and concepts that JJ had for the trilogy.

Anyway, it's all complete BS now anyway.
I have more hope for Solo than any of this nonsense.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

So just because TLJ tossed aside all of the fan theories that’s now proof that they’re making it up as they go along?

So let me get this straight Disney is paying God knows how many employees JUST SO Rian can come in last second and make up his own story on his own!

I don't know about all the fan theories.. Personally I did not find TFA all that interesting to be really interested in what was coming in the next film.

Probably why I actually had no issues whatsoever with the killing of Snoke and Phasma (who sucks anyways). Knights of Ren bothered many also.. Personally I think it would have helped add to the lore but that is about it.

My biggest issue and will always remain my biggest issue is that Rey is so powerful in the force. You figured something had to be going on with the parents or her past. I know the apologist will come up with every reason why she should be as good as she is at everything but it just don't jive with everything that came before it in the SW universe.

It hurts TFA because it gives no reason for her great powers and it hurts TLJ because it tells me to just accept it. Bah!!

Even if I liked TLJ that would still be a glaring issue to me.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Oh come on. Seriously, why do you feel the need to knock people who don't like the movie as illiterate teenagers.
I haven't seen anyone in this thread knock the film using that language (except for Jye).

And secondly.. Alien - Aliens? Really?
JJ intended a big backstory for Rey, He intended to have story continuity and a background for Snoke, The Knights of Ren and Luke. It was part one of a story reboot.. to be continued..
If Rian did read the script for TFA then he did a very good job of completely undoing the first part of a three part story arc. That's incredibly stupid. And it will show in IX.

They did in the other thread (now closed)

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

TLJ didn't just toss aside fan theories but the actual storylines and concepts that JJ had for the trilogy.

Based on something you know first hand or is it suppostion vs. supposition?

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I see it as more like ALIENS being a direct continuation of ALIEN but with Cameron deftly side-stepping Scott's original intended life-cycle for the xenomorphs so that he could focus on what he was most passionate about. Is it the same sequel that the original director would have given us? No. But it is valid and respectable for what the new director brought to the table in its own right.

Not the same thing really. Alien never intended a sequel. There was not a story arc in place. Plus you should see how upset Alien Fans get when the gestational period is sped up so much in the newer films

Now if you want to compare ST to the later Friday the 13th films I would think that would be more accurate.. I hope to see the Book of the Dead and Kylo's worm soul jumping from body to body in Episode 9

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Oh come on. Seriously, why do you feel the need to knock people who don't like the movie as illiterate teenagers.

Well come up with better criticisms then.

And secondly.. Alien - Aliens? Really?

Correct.

JJ intended a big backstory for Rey, He intended to have story continuity and a background for Snoke, The Knights of Ren and Luke. It was part one of a story reboot.. to be continued..
If Rian did read the script for TFA then he did a very good job of completely undoing the first part of a three part story arc. That's incredibly stupid. And it will show in IX.

Abrams intended this, Abrams intended that, bla bla bla. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if TLJ was the exact same movie but directed by JJ Abrams. TLJ continued the story of TFA. That really isn't up for debate. So you didn't like where the story went. Well those are the breaks. It's not like having Abrams direct TLJ would have been some magical guarantee of a perfect follow-up that addressed all the aspects that you were looking forward to.

Did Anakin ever go back to Tatooine and free all the slaves? Was he the first person to visit every star system? Did he even try? The OT, PT, and yes even ST have always had an aspect of "making things up as they go."

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Not the same thing really. Alien never intended a sequel.

They're the same with regard to the sequel director side-stepping off-screen musings by the original director in favor of telling the story that he wanted to tell.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Well come up with better criticisms then.



Correct.



Abrams intended this, Abrams intended that, bla bla bla. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if TLJ was the exact same movie but directed by JJ Abrams. TLJ continued the story of TFA. That really isn't up for debate. So you didn't like where the story went. Well those are the breaks. It's not like having Abrams direct TLJ would have been some magical guarantee of a perfect follow-up that addressed all the aspects that you were looking forward to.

Did Anakin ever go back to Tatooine and free all the slaves? Was he the first person to visit every star system? Did he even try? The OT, PT, and yes even ST have always had an aspect of "making things up as they go."

You were quoting JJ’s intentions just the other day yourself Khev.
But positively about the gaping plot holes in TLJ.

Make your mind up.

And if you need to resort to knocking people with different opinions than yours personally. You’ve already lost the discussion.
Thought you weee bigger than that mate.

ZOMG indeed.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Based on something you know first hand or is it suppostion vs. supposition?

Pegg has been pretty vocal about Rey’s intended parentage not being what was intended by JJ and not what ended up in TLJ.
Serkis also expressed his surprise at Snokes death and around the time of TFA spoke about the future development of the character and how exciting his discussions with JJ were about where he was going.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

You were quoting JJ’s intentions just the other day yourself Khev.
But positively about the gaping plot holes in TLJ.

Where? (Not disputing I'm just curious as to what you're referencing.)

Make your mind up.

And if you need to resort to knocking people with different opinions than yours personally. You’ve already lost the discussion.
Thought you weee bigger than that mate.

ZOMG indeed.

I really don't think that my joke about people's reactions to how/when Johnson wrote TLJ's script was as scathing as you're making it out to be nor was I aware that I was making a personal attack against you directly. It appears that you're electing to camp out on a perceived slight that rather than acknowledging the rest of what I said.

Hell you yourself appeared to appreciate the notion that I'm a fanboy drone who obediently praises literally anything released by LFL regardless of its quality.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

They're the same with regard to the sequel director side-stepping off-screen musings by the original director in favor of telling the story that he wanted to tell.

Sure.. I can see what you are saying. But I am not sure that is the way to go about it in a story like this.

Plus Cameron was way more true to the lore then the ST has been to SW. He did not go around screwing with the life cycle of the alien like JJ and Johnson screwed around with Rey being way too powerful.

Like I said the ST is the Jason Goes to Hell of Star Wars films


Why in the holy hell am I spending so much time talking about the **** storm known as the ST??

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Abrams intended this, Abrams intended that, bla bla bla. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if TLJ was the exact same movie but directed by JJ Abrams. TLJ continued the story of TFA. That really isn't up for debate. So you didn't like where the story went. Well those are the breaks. It's not like having Abrams direct TLJ would have been some magical guarantee of a perfect follow-up that addressed all the aspects that you were looking forward to.

Did Anakin ever go back to Tatooine and free all the slaves? Was he the first person to visit every star system? Did he even try? The OT, PT, and yes even ST have always had an aspect of "making things up as they go."

If JJ directed TLJ it with the Johnson script it would still be crap but it would look as crappy as the story

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

If JJ directed TLJ it with the Johnson script it would still be crap but it would look as crappy as the story

Ok that was funny lol

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Sure.. I can see what you are saying. But I am not sure that is the way to go about it in a story like this.

Plus Cameron was way more true to the lore then the ST has been to SW. He did not go around screwing with the life cycle of the alien

Um are you sure about that, did you not literally reference the fan outrage to what Cameron did to the life-cycle? And he did the opposite of "making Rey too powerful" in the minds of many fans. He took the all-powerful mystique of the perfect organism and de-mary sued them to the point of being cannon fodder bugs.

Not my opinion mind you but I've certainly read enough complaints citing just that over the years.

Why in the holy hell am I spending so much time talking about the **** storm known as the ST??

It is unavoidable. It is your destiny.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Where? (Not disputing I'm just curious as to what you're referencing.)



I really don't think that my joke about people's reactions to how/when Johnson wrote TLJ's script was as scathing as you're making it out to be nor was I aware that I was making a personal attack against you directly. It appears that you're electing to camp out on that rather than acknowledge the rest of what I said.

I didn’t take it personally. Nor did I at any point in anyway paint a negative picture of you Khev, quite the opposite- I’ve always considered you one of the more “balanced” members of this forum.
But it’s not the thing to resort to when having these type of discussion IMO.

And in regards to you quoting JJ’s intentions - you said it was his intention that the jedi temple map was transferred to R2 in the OT or something like that. Which is totally fine but even less canon than Simon Pegg saying that Rian ditched the original storyline for Rey’s parents.

Here’s the thing though. I don’t have any problem with killing Snoke and I’ve alway said I liked the “nobody” twist in regards to Rey, but in a 3 part movie arc they were cheap moves. And ultimately badly executed - in the same way that the rest of TLJ was misguided and cheap.

Some great moments that sacrificed the entire storyline.
Cheesy trash for the most part.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

And in regards to you quoting JJ’s intentions - you said it was his intention that the jedi temple map was transferred to R2 in the OT or something like that. Which is totally fine but even less canon than Simon Pegg saying that Rian ditched the original storyline for Rey’s parents.

JJ Abrams' explanation of scenes he wrote and directed = less canon than tweets by...Simon Pegg? How does that work.

And Abrams said directly that Kylo Ren's comments about retrieving a portion of the map from the archives of the Empire was meant to act as a hint as to where R2 got them. Those aren't random ideas about an upcoming film that he didn't direct it's literally how he intended the audience to interpret exactly what was put on screen. Now did he do a great job of driving home the implications that R2 got the map from the DS? No. TFA faltered in a lot of it's implied backstory. But that *is* the backstory regardless of how vaguely it was spelled out on screen.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Why in the holy hell am I spending so much time talking about the **** storm known as the ST??

Going back to this though it's you guys who keep this thread going because I want to talk about RPO dammit, lol.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

JJ Abrams' explanation of scenes he wrote and directed = less canon than tweets by...Simon Pegg? How does that work.

And Abrams said directly that Kylo Ren's comments about retrieving a portion of the map from the archives of the Empire was meant to act as a hint as to where R2 got them. Those aren't random ideas about an upcoming film that he didn't direct it's literally how he intended the audience to interpret exactly what was put on screen. Now did he do a great job of driving home the implications that R2 got the map from the DS? No. TFA faltered in a lot of it's implied backstory. But that *is* the backstory regardless of how vaguely it was spelled out on screen.

Abrams intended this, Abrams intended that, bla bla bla. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if TLJ was the exact same movie but directed by JJ Abrams. TLJ continued the story of TFA. That really isn't up for debate."

Hmmm...

 

[JAWS]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I am going to attempt to watch this film again with my friend. He has only seen it once and was not a fan.. I am going to attempt

Its weird. Here in upstate NY none of my best friends cared for it. Wonder if something is in the Kool aid where Jy and Khev live

Seriously though. It's weird to read the love that you two have for this film. I have yet to meet anyone other then my sister in law (she's an idiot), who loves this film.

My best friend since 1st grade.. I don't even like to bring up the movie.. He gets red faced bitching about it

My other friend who love TFA, now does not like TFA because he disliked TLJ so much.

And then there is my friend I am going to watch it with.. He did not care for it at all and was the one who helped ruined what little enjoyment I got out of right after the film ended as we discussed it.

All of us. Huge Star Wars fans who had different opinions on TFA ended up really having no love for TLJ

Of course I am not saying this is proof the movie sucks (but it is ) Its just a strange to see the Khev/Jye love fest for it and not know anybody that I can discuss this with in person that feels the same way.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I didn’t take it personally. Nor did I at any point in anyway paint a negative picture of you Khev, quite the opposite- I’ve always considered you one of the more “balanced” members of this forum.
But it’s not the thing to resort to when having these type of discussion IMO.

I see that you updated your post after I made my reply. You've got some people on your "side" (TLJ haters) that really are quite, well, juvenile, irrational, incapable of comprehending what's on screen or what people type on these forums, etc., and sometimes I think I come across as painting you all with the same brush. I don't though. Though as I said before you did seem to appreciate the wide brush notion that I'm a fanboy drone who praises anything SW related regardless of quality. So maybe I misread the vibe of the discussion and made a joke that was too easily interpreted as a personal attack. It definitely wasn't my intention.