Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[DiFabio]

Wait, there's another Star Wars coming? I thought it died, er, ended after Last Jedi?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Bottom line...Star Wars needs to die lol

Of course it will be.

But as ajp4mgs would say, perhaps we need to define "hype"?

Box office.

How's that for a definition? Isn't that a fair way to judge movie hype?

 

[ajp4mgs]

I've yet to encounter anything that explains how force projection actually works - even the basics. Like can you do it - at all - without dying? Or is the length of the experience that kills you (as Wookiepedia seems to coyly suggest,) and if you do it in shorter bursts you can use it as an actual skill? Did Luke KNOW he was going to die by doing it in TLJ? If so, did he consider other options before committing suicide? Why didn't he do it faster in TLJ to save himself? These are hugely important questions: it's hard to judge Luke's actions without knowing the answers (ie he's a total ***** if the length of experience does indeed kill you).

Even though it's the only context we have with respect to the lethality of Force projection, Kylo's "the effort would kill you" observation is still fairly informative. When he said that, he had interacted with what he thought might be a projection of Rey for no more than a minute or two. That brief amount of time as a projection was enough for Kylo to conclude that it couldn't possibly be Rey projecting herself, because the effort to do so would kill her. After just a minute or so!

In fact, his use of the term "effort" is key for me too. The inference I get from the choice of that term is that duration has little (or nothing) to do with the lethal consequences. My interpretation is that Luke (or any Jedi) would have to exert too much vital energy just so that he can project a convincing enough "copy" of his essence to somewhere else in the galaxy.

Pablo Hidalgo can give you a definitive answer that I obviously can't. But in my opinion, Luke knew that he'd be sacrificing his corporeal life as soon as he chose to create his projection and send it to Crait. And that's the only way this skill/power can be kept from being a "cheat" to avoid facing real danger. If you use it at all, you die. That's the best way to make sense of all of the related intangibles and consequences.

Yeeeahhh... about those sacred books, in the universe where no book has ever been seen, nor pens, nor paper... like there was a pre-OT paper apocalypse? Empire was into saving trees? That's another super-weird TLJ thing. And they are such tiny, unimpressive looking books too. Like the sacred Jedi pamphletts

Compare paper usage today to what it was just 50 years ago. Much less, right? Newspapers, magazines, snail mail . . . all of these might cease to exist entirely by the end of this century. How many people carry an actual notepad and pen anymore? And the age of digital books and note-keeping is still in its relative infancy. Someday in your lifetime, physical books might be as scarce as audio cassettes and VHS tapes.

The sacred texts in TLJ were described by Luke as having existed for a thousand generations. Again, that would be *multiple thousands* of years! Doesn't it make sense to you that thousands of years before the PT/OT might mean the use of written communication? Objecting to books from a bygone era of the SW timeline would be like wondering why we don't see cuneiform in our world today.

The books in TLJ wouldn't even be the equivalent of something like the Dead Sea Scrolls in our reality. Those scrolls were created no more than 2500 years ago. Multiply that by TEN and just imagine how extinct and unrecognizable any form of recorded scripture would be in this era of wi-fi data. It would be a form of communication so antiquated that nothing like it would exist in our modern day.

 

[DiFabio]

The Jedi kept texts in digital form,



Why the **** would they have this garbage laying around,




They wouldn't. If the sacred texts are as old as TLJ states, that **** would turn to dust the second anyone touched them. It would make sense for the Jedi to save that **** on a flashdrive in their fancy library somewhere for preservation purposes, not in a ****ing cave.


Stupid movie.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The parchment and binding were made from Ewok hide, well-known for its incredible longevity.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Box office.

How's that for a definition? Isn't that a fair way to judge movie hype?

I suppose so. Explains movies like Avatar.

But Boxoffice should never be confused with Audience Satisfaction.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I suppose so. Explains movies like Avatar.

But Boxoffice should never be confused with Audience Satisfaction.

Of course. No argument there.

 

[jye4ever]

Will it? Or will we be too focused on The Mandalorian and the box art for the entire Infinity Saga, lol.

Mandalorian and TROS living together for mutual advantage. Without the hype DiFabio could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of his cynicism. The SW hype continually speak to you, telling you the will of the marketing. When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear ajp speaking to you.




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[Khev]

 

[jye4ever]

But yes if we’re still discussing the IS come November then TROS is in big trouble lol


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[DiFabio]

Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian Mandalorian

Will be just as stupid. Dumb TV show with ugly Rogue One look, generic cinematography and nobody cast.

Giancarlo Esposito flying around in a Tie Fighter, WTF.

The hype you see is from fan boys online and Disney+ shills. Most people don't know what a Mandalorian is and think it's this.

Box office.

Artificial numbers.

 

[Khev]

But yes if we’re still discussing the IS come November then TROS is in big trouble lol

EG + Mark Hamill telling us to temper our expectations for TROS has my anticipation for a new SW flick at an all-time low.

I watched that TROS trailer video I did a few months back again last night and I just can't feel the same excitement so we'll see if they can suck me back in in the months ahead. The Mandalorian footage still gets me pumped though.

 

[jye4ever]

Will be just as stupid. Dumb TV show with ugly Rogue One look, generic cinematography and nobody cast.

Giancarlo Esposito flying around in a Tie Fighter, WTF.

The hype you see is from fan boys online and Disney+ shills. Most people don't know what a Mandalorian is and think it's this.

Artificial numbers.

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[Ropen]

https://www.inverse.com/article/582...lker-9-leaks-sith-troopers-emperor-connection

Yeah right floating in space whenever the resistance runs out of fuel and somehow updating their looks to the first resistance outfits it’s the biggest dumbest plot of Death Star proportions ever


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[jye4ever]

Well supposedly this is that ship:

Spoiler

And you know how RO had the hammer head ship well.....

Spoiler

Leia in TFA was supposed to fly one of those her version of it at least and that has now been moved to TROS with Leia being the pilot again:

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[Wor-Gar]

RO strikes again!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

They can't even design cool looking ships anymore with all their fancy special effects. Those ships belong in ST.

 

[TaliBane]

Too many funny zingers and great stuff in here to quote. This thread is such gold.

Even though it's the only context we have with respect to the lethality of Force projection, Kylo's "the effort would kill you" observation is still fairly informative. When he said that, he had interacted with what he thought might be a projection of Rey for no more than a minute or two. That brief amount of time as a projection was enough for Kylo to conclude that it couldn't possibly be Rey projecting herself, because the effort to do so would kill her. After just a minute or so!

In fact, his use of the term "effort" is key for me too. The inference I get from the choice of that term is that duration has little (or nothing) to do with the lethal consequences. My interpretation is that Luke (or any Jedi) would have to exert too much vital energy just so that he can project a convincing enough "copy" of his essence to somewhere else in the galaxy.

Pablo Hidalgo can give you a definitive answer that I obviously can't. But in my opinion, Luke knew that he'd be sacrificing his corporeal life as soon as he chose to create his projection and send it to Crait. And that's the only way this skill/power can be kept from being a "cheat" to avoid facing real danger. If you use it at all, you die. That's the best way to make sense of all of the related intangibles and consequences.

So we'll set aside Wookiepedia and other official definitions then (they don't work anyway) and focus on what you're proposing - as I always say, you are far more convincing than Leeland Chee and Pablo combined.

So you're saying that just using force projection (ie once) kills you - period? So Luke did it as an act of suicide?

Again, this is not just a silly/technicality fan point - it's absolutely critical to a wider general audience understanding of what Luke actually did as his "final act" (well, final for now - I'm sure he'll be back as a force ghost with all the exact same powers and abilities he had in life, the only difference being he doesn't need to drink green milk, eat cartoon fish or relieve himself in the Jedi commode.)

The fact we are even having this conversation at all, playing with a whole host of vagaries (and we haven't even gotten to more pragmatic points like why Luke never mentions his "distraction plan" to Leia - either offscreen or on) points up the poor job done in terms of rules and context in what is THE sequence that kills the hero of the SW saga.

Your position does open up a whole set of questions though. If this is a super-rare even among Jedi, largely unknown power that Luke stumbled across (in books or otherwise - that part is very unclear too) and has obviously never used it before, and importantly nobody who has ever used it in the distant past ever survived it, how does he know he won't be dead thirty seconds into the experience? "Just the effort alone would kill you" right? Therefore how could he know he could rely on it for what amounts to a pretty significant plan?

If it's this exotic, scary (it kills you no matter how you use it) mega-power that's totally unknown to Luke, then why stop and casually chat to Leia? Wouldn't you commit to this deadly choice, show up, tell Leia to get everyone out, and start the apparition gag out with Kylo? For all Luke knows, he'd die a minute after greeting Leia.

There is really no explanation for force projection out there that even remotely makes sense (even official,) so I'm really interested in how you see this.

Compare paper usage today to what it was just 50 years ago. Much less, right? Newspapers, magazines, snail mail . . . all of these might cease to exist entirely by the end of this century. How many people carry an actual notepad and pen anymore? And the age of digital books and note-keeping is still in its relative infancy. Someday in your lifetime, physical books might be as scarce as audio cassettes and VHS tapes.

The sacred texts in TLJ were described by Luke as having existed for a thousand generations. Again, that would be *multiple thousands* of years! Doesn't it make sense to you that thousands of years before the PT/OT might mean the use of written communication? Objecting to books from a bygone era of the SW timeline would be like wondering why we don't see cuneiform in our world today.

The books in TLJ wouldn't even be the equivalent of something like the Dead Sea Scrolls in our reality. Those scrolls were created no more than 2500 years ago. Multiply that by TEN and just imagine how extinct and unrecognizable any form of recorded scripture would be in this era of wi-fi data. It would be a form of communication so antiquated that nothing like it would exist in our modern day.

I take your point, but one of the things that bothers me is that the lack of paper, pens, books etc is one of the things that made SW a "galaxy far far away" - books to me make it much closer. It gave it an alien-ness.

The OT was made at the height of paper usage, so to me it was a very clear, deliberate - and also definitional - creative choice. Like no buttons are ever seen on any OT garment, and no wheels (beyond practical VFX reasons under droids, or incorporated into machinery as cogs like the sandcrawler) are seen on OT vehicles; lkely a factor on why the wheeled Hoth vehicle was discarded. A choice that made it "far far away."

In the same way you argue with the Sumerian example for writing, you could in-universe argue of course that buttons went away in the SW universe with the invention of Ubese velcro, or that wheels went away because of the anti-gravity wars. But out of universe, from a world-building sense, they are what divides our world from the galaxy far, far away.

So books in TLJ are to me a world building issue, not a practical issue.

It's like Rey arriving on Ah-choo and out comes Luke driving a sort of wheeled dune buddy right out of Mad Max. You could argue that wheels were done away with 5,000 years ago (as I'm sure wheels will be redundant in our reality in 500 years) and this vehicle dates back to then (run on green milk no less)

But the issue wouldn't be whether wheels are believable in-universe (I'm sure they could be made to be) - it's that it breaks down another wall that separates the magic world from our own. A violation of what was very clearly a world-building choice. Three two hour movies - and not a wheel, button, or pen/paper/book in sight.

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That's a t-shirt right there.

 

[DiFabio]

Marsha was always the hotter one. **** Jan.

 

[Prime Clone]

In the final scene Obi-Wan awakes from a restless sleep to hear someone in the shower. He yanks back the curtain to find Qui-Gon.

The entire PT and ST were just a dream!