Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Reading through this thread I've noticed that "nuanced" is the new word for "lifeless"...

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

There's nothing wrong with wanting the Saga and it's most prominent heroes to stay at a hyper-level of feel good fantasy. But what I don't understand is why it's so hard to grasp that others might not want that to be an unwavering theme for these films, especially when it was never featured in the OT from beginning to end. I like seeing the characters go through hell in ESB, RO, and TLJ. It makes me like them more and appreciate their victories even moreso.

Who the F has a problem with characters going thru hell?....Show me a post where that's the case...youre reaching now...stretching hard...

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

One minor thing I might change about TLJ would have been to have had Luke's "flesh" hand in the flashbacks to Ben's bed side before showing the mechanical hand punching through the rubble. I could see Johnson shying away from that because it'd be a bit "Terminator-esque" to have a scene where flesh burns off to reveal an endoskeleton hand but since Luke's hand predated the T-800 I would have given it a pass.

It might have been cool to have had his metal hand be a constant reminder of his failure in that moment. Hmm, but even typing that I wonder if it'd be overkill to have his hand be a symbol of failing in Cloud City *and* in Ben's room. I don't know. Either way it was one badass visual effect.

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I have a problem where the OT characters OVERNIGHT out of the blue changed who they were....its like the Disney fairy dust landed on Lukes head and said now kill your nephew and go join Gilligan and become brain dead...Han got zapped and voices told him to smuggle giant eyeballs...Chewie from ripping arms off after losing chess matches to a vegetarian and obeying little boyish girls...Leia becomes God like in an instant...rest of the OT characters seen was thrown out in the garbage shute...oh but the new Disney star wars characters...yeah they are so special...kill the past because it was all bad says disney

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

There's nothing wrong with wanting the Saga and it's most prominent heroes to stay at a hyper-level of feel good fantasy. But what I don't understand is why it's so hard to grasp that others might not want that to be an unwavering theme for these films, especially when it was never featured in the OT from beginning to end. I like seeing the characters go through hell in ESB, RO, and TLJ. It makes me like them more and appreciate their victories even moreso.

See, that's what Star Wars is all about. Seeing the heroes struggle on in the face of overwhelming odds. Johnson changed the whole narrative and feel to these movies. At the end of TFA you were anticipating Luke's return to see how the story would continue and right a wrong and fight on to save the galaxy from oppression. Even pass on his knowledge to a new future, just like Obi-Wan & Yoda did to Luke. Instead he tosses his lightsaber away, symbolic of Johnson tossing away everything we've seen and felt and hoped would continue in the saga of Star Wars. "This is not your father's SW kiddies". We already saw Anakin fall in the PT, and instead of Luke breaking the mold and not giving in to his fate like his father, he should've fought on. I guess kids can learn that fate is inevitable and dictated by the actions of our parents, so why try to find the strength to break a bad habit/mold. The Emperor said it was Luke's destiny to take his fathers place at his side, I'd rather have seen that than the cowardly limper off to a secluded island on an unknown planet to die scenario..

Yes, see, they keep fighting. Yet somehow you enjoy that Luke gives up? Oh, yeah he comes around in the end with his force projection non sense and saves the day from across the galaxy. It's a cheap and meaningless cop out and on screen death.

Maybe I'll buy into your reality fantasy of heroes falling and Luke's tragic heart wrenching character ending, when Rey succumbs to the the same fate in Rian Johnson's new trilogy, and she too becomes a fallen hero after seeing all her hard work and fighting lead to nothing....

If you believe that's a story arc for Rey's future, then I have a bridge to sell you for a great price....

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

See, that's what Star Wars is all about. Seeing the heroes struggle on in the face of overwhelming odds. Johnson changed the whole narrative and feel to these movies. At the end of TFA you were anticipating Luke's return to see how the story would continue and right a wrong and fight on to save the galaxy from oppression. Even pass on his knowledge to a new future, just like Obi-Wan & Yoda did to Luke. Instead he tosses his lightsaber away, symbolic of Johnson tossing away everything we've seen and felt and hoped would continue in the saga of Star Wars. "This is not your father's SW kiddies". We already saw Anakin fall in the PT, and instead of Luke breaking the mold and not giving in to his fate like his father, he should've fought on. I guess kids can learn that fate is inevitable and dictated by the actions of our parents, so why try to find the strength to break a bad habit/mold. The Emperor said it was Luke's destiny to take his fathers place at his side, I'd rather have seen that than the cowardly limper off to a secluded island on an unknown planet to die scenario..

Yes, see, they keep fighting. Yet somehow you enjoy that Luke gives up? Oh, yeah he comes around in the end with his force projection non sense and saves the day from across the galaxy. It's a cheap and meaningless cop out and on screen death.

Maybe I'll buy into your reality fantasy of heroes falling and Luke's tragic heart wrenching character ending, when Rey succumbs to the the same fate in Rian Johnson's new trilogy, and she too becomes a fallen hero after seeing all her hard work and fighting lead to nothing....

If you believe that's a story arc for Rey's future, then I have a bridge to sell you for a great price....

You cant sell Brooklyn,Triboro,Queensboro, or the Whitestone bridges...they are mine...sell him Manhattan, Williamsburg or GW....Throgs Neck and Verrazzano are sold to Jye, on hold till payment is received....oh another great post by the way

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

See, that's what Star Wars is all about. Seeing the heroes struggle on in the face of overwhelming odds.

See we've got some common ground.

Johnson changed the whole narrative and feel to these movies.

He made a SW movie filled with genuine surprises in the directions taken by the narrative, something that hasn't occurred since 1980.

At the end of TFA you were anticipating Luke's return to see how the story would continue and right a wrong and fight on to save the galaxy from oppression. Even pass on his knowledge to a new future,

Which all happened, just not in the way that you were expecting.

Instead he tosses his lightsaber away,

And for good reason based on his understanding of current events, though I might be inclined to agree with those who don't think that that moment should have been played for laughs.

We already saw Anakin fall in the PT,

We saw Anakin fall in the PT but we didn't see that done *well.* Which is why I'm more than happy with the ST acting as a bit of a PT "do over" and having Ben Solo be the young Anakin that we should have gotten in the first place. And one interesting aspect to Kylo Ren is that he's unquestionably not on Vader's level but is also unquestionably far *above* Hayden's Anakin. That works IMO. No character will ever be as good as Vader but Driver's been doing a great job as the tormented prodigy (and for that reason I'm glad they ditched the mask, hopefully Abrams doesn't bring it back.)

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

You cant sell Brooklyn,Triboro,Queensboro, or the Whitestone bridges...they are mine...sell him Manhattan, Williamsburg or GW....Throgs Neck and Verrazzano are sold to Jye, on hold till payment is recieved

...

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

...

I changed my mind...sell him Goethals,Outer, and Bayonne......I hate those damn bridges

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Disney Star Wars...the mighty experiment...blew up the lab...

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I just asked the guys at Dicks how are gun sales...They said they went up since TLJ got released on Blu-ray/dvd lol...I sware

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yeah, I definitely never clamored for a Mon Mothma figure when I was a kid.

And I noticed an interesting parallel between Mothma and Leia's arcs that has been fleshed out by the new films.

In RO Mothma couldn't hide her excitement at the news that Raddus had disobeyed the Council's orders (just like TLJ Poe) and taken his fleet to war. While in ROTJ she appeared heartbroken at the deaths of however many Bothans that she assumedly didn't even know.

Whereas in SW Leia didn't bat an eye at the 90% Rebel ship casualties at Yavin (27 of the 30 fighters were destroyed) but was crushed at losing the bombers and support fighters in TLJ. A nice parallel to the toll that the losses of war eventually had taken on both leaders.

Good stuff thank you.

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

A lot of discussion about the Sea Cows today. I've concluded that the teet milking is Rey's equivalent of Luke facing Vader on Dagobah. Just as Luke failed in the cave Rey also failed to maintain eye contact with the open teet Sea Cow. However she was able to remember her failure, channel her focus and stand her ground when addressing her true enemy, Kylo Ren's bare nipples.

My conclusion is that the Sea cow is Kathleen Kennedy in true form...Luke is Johnson sucking the venom and loving it...reminiscing about the time in the past at Gender blender summer camp when nightly he visited Kennedy who was his Camp master ....yep a very personal film for Johnson...TLJ musta been a metaphor about his life...

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

He made a SW movie filled with genuine surprises in the directions taken by the narrative, something that hasn't occurred since 1980. Which all happened, just not in the way that you were expecting.

And for good reason based on his understanding of current events, though I might be inclined to agree with those who don't think that that moment should have been played for laughs.

Genuine surprises, sure. But not well thought out good ones. He literally just thought of doing what the fans didn't expect to see, but not in a good meaningful/thought provoking way. He literally turned it into a joke. He is not a good story teller.

I'm fine if they/he wanted Luke to be a tragically flawed character. It's how he went about it.

So many ways he could've told a compelling story, rather than what he thought would simply be an unexpected one. This isn't the fan fiction I had in my head, in fact I had none before seeing TLJ, I just expected to seethe characters continue on the journey/ their journey come to an end. But in a meaningful way.

A compelling story would've been Luke retreating to find the origins of the Jedi as to ensure none of this happens again. To embrace his failures and right a wrong. To admit he failed with Ben and how he tried to resurrect the Jedi based on the old ways. To find the knowledge to help him break the cycle and try again. To train an a new generation of protectors/defenders that won't fall into the same trap the Jedi did. To embrace the force in all it's glory and move away from light/dark, good/bad, Jedi/Sith. Actually teach Rey and show her what was right and wrong within the Jedi order, and how she can avoid/break the circle and the importance to stop/redeem Kylo before his fall is complete. He senses the struggle within him and there is still time....

So many good strong lessons and story telling potential. Instead we get a coward. The sad part is, this is how JJ seemed to be going with the mysterious disappearance of Luke. That there was a reason for his seclusion and departure, Not that he cowardly slinked away into hiding after failing his sister and best friend. Hiding away from the galaxy to simply die.

Rian must've had a sad childhood if this is how he wanted to continue/end the Skywalker legacy. He turned heroes into cowards, except Leia of course.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Isn't Yoda the one that told Obi-Wan to go into hiding?

And you really think what the world needs today is to see fallen heroes?? Luke is/was a character that never should have fallen. He is the epitome of what Disney should want to convey as proof with their new SW tagline in "Hope". He never gives up and always fights for what he believes in. Something kids today need to see in heroes, not the realism that everyone becomes grumpy old men when life wears them down and things never seem to go as planned. This is fantasy, not reality. We have plenty of that already.

But instead they changed that. Instead Rey is now this character that will be selfless and strong, to show perserverance and to show women are the true strength and men ultimately will always fail. Han falls and goes back to his old ways, Luke falls and gives up and just wants to die, but Leia stays strong and continues the good fight. Even the new characters, Finn falls back to being a coward, Poe is thoughtless/arrogant, Kylo is, well whatever he is but another flawed male....

I really don't understand how any "True" SW fan can defend what Johnson did to Luke's characterization. Whether you accept it or not, enjoy it or not, how can you feel it's the character arc Luke deserved after how he was portrayed in the OT?

So we don’t wanna see Luke struggle anymore?

But we do wanna see Rey, the Mary Sue struggle?




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[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Genuine surprises, sure. But not well thought out good ones. He literally just thought of doing what the fans didn't expect to see, but not in a good meaningful/thought provoking way. He literally turned it into a joke. He is not a good story teller.

I'm fine if they/he wanted Luke to be a tragically flawed character. It's how he went about it.

So many ways he could've told a compelling story, rather than what he thought would simply be an unexpected one. This isn't the fan fiction I had in my head, in fact I had none before seeing TLJ, I just expected to seethe characters continue on the journey/ their journey come to an end. But in a meaningful way.

A compelling story would've been Luke retreating to find the origins of the Jedi as to ensure none of this happens again. To embrace his failures and right a wrong. To admit he failed with Ben and how he tried to resurrect the Jedi based on the old ways. To find the knowledge to help him break the cycle and try again. To train an a new generation of protectors/defenders that won't fall into the same trap the Jedi did. To embrace the force in all it's glory and move away from light/dark, good/bad, Jedi/Sith. Actually teach Rey and show her what was right and wrong within the Jedi order, and how she can avoid/break the circle and the importance to stop/redeem Kylo before his fall is complete. He senses the struggle within him and there is still time....

So many good strong lessons and story telling potential. Instead we get a coward. The sad part is, this is how JJ seemed to be going with the mysterious disappearance of Luke. That there was a reason for his seclusion and departure, Not that he cowardly slinked away into hiding after failing his sister and best friend. Hiding away from the galaxy to simply die.

Rian must've had a sad childhood if this is how he wanted to continue/end the Skywalker legacy. He turned heroes into cowards, except Leia of course.

the conclusion of TFA coulda gone both ways...of course Johnson took the wrong direction

 

[spindrift]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Holdo was awesome. Dern delivered an incredibly nuanced performance in a film that was already full of them. I do admit that it took some time for me to warm up to her look (hair and dress) though.

the purple hair was abit much like bad cosplay- she would have been alot better as a blonde or whatever but Disney needed to appeal to those females who gotta dye their hair odd colors to get attention and feel noticed...

 

[spindrift]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yes, for any of TFA/TLJ's faults each film will always have the honor of showcasing the Saga's best acting performances of Ford, Hamill, and Fisher (until Luke's ghost appears in Episode IX anyway.) Hamill and Fisher were off the charts good in TLJ. Interesting catch about Fisher's expression, it didn't actually occur to me that she preemptively braced herself from the vacuum of space with the Force.

On a semi-related note it wasn't until watching it at home that I noticed that Ackbar actually does not die off camera. You can actually see him blow up behind Leia before she gets pulled out into space.

Back to Leia, I think her perfectly delivered "May the For--you say it, I've said it enough," was a fitting indicator that her part in the Saga was coming to an end. That line really said it all.

Hamill did give his best acting performance EASILY in TLJ- he had some bittersweet material to work with

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

So we don’t wanna see Luke struggle anymore?

But we do wanna see Rey, the Mary Sue struggle?




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Not sure I follow?

How did we see Luke struggle in TLJ? Nor can we see him continue to struggle in future movies. He gave up, abandoned his friends and the galaxy he was trying to protect. His last/only attempt to right a wrong was to give the others the time to escape by force projecting himself, which he apparently knew would/could kill him, so they could continue to struggle/fight while he remained on achoo island and died a redeemed heroes death.

He made no attempt to guide/train Rey, cause she don't need it. She's already awesome.

These new movies are to pass the torch onto new Disney created characters and a new generation of fans. Stated so numerous times by Disney.

 

[Adolfo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Hamill did give his best acting performance EASILY in TLJ- he had some bittersweet material to work with

Agreed ..I will never argue with this...he had all bittersweet material