Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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Couple months out and I still haven't fully acknowledged that they brought Palpatine back as contingency to explain Rey's bloodline. I'll also admit I underestimated JJ's sheer incompetence after I thought it was virtually impossible to have another throne room scene after RJ admirably killed Snoke.
 
And there you go again. If you don't "get" that Star Wars has a different set of rules than your local Department of Motor Vehicles then I simply can't help you. :)

I honestly don?t know why these supposed SW fans are judging SW by real life rules DMV no less lol I can?t believe you are actually having to defend this lol

Trekkies I swear never truly gone.

I am also quite shocked that ajp didn?t comprehend what would have happened to the resistance movement had Kylo not turned.

Couple months out and I still haven't fully acknowledged that they brought Palpatine back as contingency to explain Rey's bloodline. I'll also admit I underestimated JJ's sheer incompetence after I thought it was virtually impossible to have another throne room scene after RJ admirably killed Snoke.

You are right the main villain to close off the saga should have been darkside Finn instead of the emperor who only had been the main villain in the other 2 trilogies lol


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I honestly don?t know why these supposed SW fans are judging SW by real life rules DMV no less lol I can?t believe you are actually having to defend this lol

Trekkies I swear never truly gone.

"I haven't gone by the name of Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born."

"Yeah?? Prove it! Let's see some photo ID mister and it better not be expired!" :cuss

lol

You are right the main villain to close off the saga should have been darkside Finn instead of the emperor who only had been the main villain in the other 2 trilogies lol

:lol

The only acceptable replacement for Palpatine himself would have been Sith Maz, lol.
 
"I haven't gone by the name of Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born."

"Yeah?? Prove it! Let's see some photo ID mister and it better not be expired!" :cuss

lol



:lol

The only acceptable replacement for Palpatine himself would have been Sith Maz, lol.

If they were going to make that stunning looking actress look like an inverted **** at least have the decency of making her a mid level villain.

Maybe the leader of a wanna be sith witch cult that was spying on the resistance and pulling strings to get to Luke for Snoke-Palpatine and someone for the B resistance group to take out.


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I was joking with Khev about the DMV of course, but I wasn't joking about how absolutely moronic it is that Rey claims to be a Skywalker.
 
"What if?" There's no "what if" since he *did* tell her his exact plan and after hearing it she did *not* kill herself so your scenario is moot. Killing herself would have doomed all the rebels to die in her mind which is exactly why she didn't go that route.

Rey didn't kill herself, and she also didn't turn into the "Empress." Yet you're absolutely certain that the Empress scenario would've played out if not for Ben being there (and being redeemed). Based on what? Maybe the only reason you didn't see her turn the lightsaber on herself is because Ben showed up. Nobody knows, and one can only *pretend* to know.

Without Ben there, Palpatine still would've stupidly told Rey his plan, so slicing him with a saber and becoming "Empress Palpatine" would still make no sense for her. Rey also wouldn't have the option to reflect any lightning back at Palps because the "Dyad" needed to be united there (apparently) for him to level up and gain those lightning powers. So what would she do?

As far as I can tell, Rey's options were: 1.) slice Palps and do his bidding exactly like he wanted, or 2.) kill herself and leave him no viable Force-user body to be his new meat puppet. Why the hell would she choose the first option (as you insist she would) since the second option would actually prevent Palpatine from getting what he wanted?

The suicide scenario is *not* moot at all when Ben's presence is removed from the equation. In fact, it'd actually be a likely alternative because of the only other inferior option. That was my point. And if she killed herself, Palpatine couldn't level up. He'd be stuck in the same impotent clone. Better option, right?

No, without Ben turning Lando would not have rallied the galaxy.

Why not? Lando didn't leave Pasanaa on the Falcon, and he didn't need the Falcon to show up *on his own* at the Resistance base. Why would Kylo's turning influence Lando's desire, or logistical capacity, to rally the galaxy? That doesn't add up.

If Ben stayed evil then he would have assumedly killed Rey on the DS wreckage, got in his Interceptor and obliterated the downed Falcon. Without Rey no one finds their way to Exegol. Which wouldn't have mattered since there would have been no Falcon to rally the galaxy anyway, no Poe to lead the first wave, no Finn blowing up the navigation tower, nothing. Everything crumbles if Ben doesn't turn and the Sith Flame burns forevermore.

Didn't Leia catch her son's attention by surprise, and *that's* what made him pause. Then Rey stabbed him. Kylo was still evil when she stabbed him, right?

I guess your view is that Kylo was already redeemed when Rey headed for the TIE. But my sense is that he didn't turn back to the light until the Han interaction. Rey left him recovering and took his TIE *before* that conversation with Han.

In any case, a still-evil Kylo wouldn't suddenly prioritize seeking out and destroying the Falcon. Hell, he and his FO could've destroyed the Falcon well before the trip to the DS wreckage. It was sitting right in his hangar. Kylo's priority would still be resolving the Palpatine situation.
 
I am also quite shocked that ajp didn?t comprehend what would have happened to the resistance movement had Kylo not turned.

Kylo's turn had just about zero impact on the Resistance. Here's some of the reasons why:

Leia died to reach out to Kylo; her death wasn't dependent on whether or not he chose to redeem himself.

Lando chose to go to Leia's Resistance base and help them *on his own.* Not because of Kylo turning. If Leia's death was a factor, that was already a done deal either way.

Rey would've still left to go retreat to Ahch-To, and still would've gotten Luke's pep talk.

Rey still would've flown to Exegol and sent her coordinates to the Resistance.

Lando still would've reached out to his allies and rallied the galaxy to join him. Lando's fleet was being assembled before anyone even knew Rey would be sending coordinates to the Resistance.

Poe's fleet would've had an *EASIER* time on Exogol *without* a redeemed Ben because Palps wouldn't have the energy for his super miles-wide lightning.

And Lando's fleet would've still been gathered, would still get to Exogol, and would still outnumber the bad guys.

Prove me wrong, jye. That's all I ask.

I was joking with Khev about the DMV of course, but I wasn't joking about how absolutely moronic it is that Rey claims to be a Skywalker.

I'm ajp . . . ajp Hemsworth.

It's official: I'm a Hemsworth brother now! :woo Let the fame, fortune, and ladies just funnel my way. :yess:
 
So I went back and YouTubed the scene. I'm not sure what you are watching but what I saw was Rey force bury two lightsabers into the Tattooine sand, look over and see the smiling ghosts of Luke and Leia(were their force ghosts really there, who knows at this point?) and then declare herself as Rey Skywalker to a vagrant stranger. I know JJ and now you desperately want to wrap a pretty bow on all this nonsense but I would love to see Rey try to explain the legitimacy of this to the officials at the Tattooine DMV or the officers at her bank.

That scene also plays on the incestuous overtones in the OT. If Rey's a 'Skywalker' her foster parents are brother and sister.

She's probably an expert banjo dueller too.

dueling.jpg
 
That scene also plays on the incestuous overtones in the OT. If Rey's a 'Skywalker' her foster parents are brother and sister.

She's probably an expert banjo dueller too.

dueling.jpg
Maybe Rey will turn out like this...
a102b051118d69153d07a9c66edf230b.gif


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Rey didn't kill herself, and she also didn't turn into the "Empress." Yet you're absolutely certain that the Empress scenario would've played out if not for Ben being there (and being redeemed). Based on what?

Based on the "rock rolling down a hill" principle.

Maybe the only reason you didn't see her turn the lightsaber on herself is because Ben showed up.

Your entire thesis is summed up with a whole series of interconnected "maybes" that literally go against the trajectory of every scene that you're offering as proof of your interpretation.

Nobody knows, and one can only *pretend* to know.

I appreciate that you're admitting that you're literally pretending that all of these made up scenarios that would have completely invalidated Ben's redemption with no actual basis for those scenarios to occur. I have a feeling that that's all I can hope for at this point, but I'll take it. "But you're pretending too Khev." Well, there are different levels of "pretend." My assumption for how things would have played out is the common sense take that if you see a rock rolling down a hill it will simply continue rolling until it reaches the bottom of the hill. Your take *demands* that you inexplicably assume that the rock will stop mid roll, turn around, and start rolling *up* the hill.

Yes I'm assuming that if Ben didn't arrive that Rey would have killed Palpatine and allowed herself to be possessed on the off chance (her only chance) that she could still maintain enough control of her own will that she could order the Sith fleet to stand down and spare the Resistance. *That* was the literal scenario that Palps presented to her, she toke note of all of her options (or lack thereof) and *visibly nodded in compliance* after seeing no other way to help her friends. The rock was rolling downhill, every scene was moving in the direction that she would follow through had Ben not arrived so yeah, I'm not going to "pretend" that every moment building up to that was a lie and things were about to do a complete 180 just so that I can maintain that the movie was "stupid."

You're free to believe or assume whatever you want obviously but you're literally fabricating "maybe" scenarios out of thin air that nothing in the film even hinted at just to maintain the narrative that the movie sucked. More power to ya if that's what you prefer but I'm not going to recontextualize that actual movie into something else just to turn it into something lame.

Without Ben there, Palpatine still would've stupidly told Rey his plan, so slicing him with a saber and becoming "Empress Palpatine" would still make no sense for her.

Yes it literally would have. See above.

also wouldn't have the option to reflect any lightning back at Palps because the "Dyad" needed to be united there (apparently) for him to level up and gain those lightning powers. So what would she do?

Throw out as many "apparently's" and "somehows" as you want as if it is ridiculous for there to be magical powers in a fantasy story (that were "apparently" always allowed until now) but at least those were elements that appeared in the film's on-screen narrative and weren't simply made up to twist it into something else.

As far as I can tell, Rey's options were: 1.) slice Palps and do his bidding exactly like he wanted, or 2.) kill herself and leave him no viable Force-user body to be his new meat puppet. Why the hell would she choose the first option (as you insist she would) since the second option would actually prevent Palpatine from getting what he wanted?

Option A gave her a chance to have some control over the fleet and save her friends. Option B would do nothing except piss him off further. "Ha ha, I'm killing myself, you're stuck as a zombie crane puppet (until you simply sire another Force sensitive offspring.)" "Hmm, so be it. Okay Admiral Pryde, remember when I told you to destroy Kijimi to get the point across? When your fleet leaves wipe out another 10 planets please because this ***** just pissed me off." Making Palps mad isn't a "win." Far from it.

Why not? Lando didn't leave Pasanaa on the Falcon, and he didn't need the Falcon to show up *on his own* at the Resistance base. Why would Kylo's turning influence Lando's desire, or logistical capacity, to rally the galaxy? That doesn't add up.

Ben stays evil:

Ignores his mother's call, kills Rey. He either blows up the Falcon (very easy to assume he'd want to take out his rage on Rey not joining him on the nearest target, ESPECIALLY knowing that that rat bastard Finn was nearby screaming her name.) Rey doesn't get his TIE's wayfinder, provides no way for the Resistance to reach the fleet.

Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that Lando buzzing Republic planets in a pleasure yacht broadcasting "follow my non-military craft into battle as I blindly search for the Sith Fleet with no coordinates" wouldn't have quite been enough to do the trick. :)

Didn't Leia catch her son's attention by surprise, and *that's* what made him pause. Then Rey stabbed him. Kylo was still evil when she stabbed him, right?

I guess your view is that Kylo was already redeemed when Rey headed for the TIE. But my sense is that he didn't turn back to the light until the Han interaction. Rey left him recovering and took his TIE *before* that conversation with Han.

I have no problem saying that Kylo's turn began with Leia. Or do you really believe that he was "still evil" at that point and if Rey hadn't caught his saber that he would have what? Recomposed himself, apologized to Rey for the awkward pause and then fumbled around for his saber hilt at his feet before simply picking it up and resuming their duel?? No way, lol. He was done. His fight against the Light was gone. Now I do believe that at the point he was pretty much an empty shell and not ready to hop in an OT TIE (that "somehow" had a hyperdrive, grrrr) and rush off to Exegol. Rey's healing and Han's appearance definitely played huge roles in filling him with hope that he *could* benefit the Light in a significant way but him forsaking the Dark absolutely began with Leia's call. I don't see there being a viable way to interpret that scene otherwise.
 
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Ultimately the writers never thought it out in this level of detail so we should stop helping them. Khev liked the movie so he can easily bend the flimsy plot into a better version to make him happier with the final product. But because the writing is soo lazy it works both ways ... take a look at this little theory I just came up with:

So the movie tells us that if Rey kills Palpatine then he would inhabit her body (the specifics aren?t exactly clear how this happens in practice but that?s the gist). So why does Palpy tell Rey this little nugget of info when it would seemingly make her less likely to actually ?dew it? and she was already 100% committed to doing so before he told her?

You know what it doesn?t matter because Rey goes on to kill Palps anyway when she reflects his own force sparkles back in his face with the intent to kill him. But the movie seemingly ignores its earlier promise of Reypatine or does it? duh duh duh. The only logical in movie conclusion you can draw from this is that Palpy must have knowingly continued zapping her because he knew that the sparkles redirected from Rey would kill him. Yay Palps wins and now he force jumps into Rey. At the end of the movie what we actually see is the Empress Reypatine burying the lightsabers of his vanquished foes just like he was about to bury their legacy by usurping their name and shaping a future of pain and suffering as a Skywalker [insert evil cackle here].
 
So the movie tells us that if Rey kills Palpatine then he would inhabit her body (the specifics aren?t exactly clear how this happens in practice but that?s the gist). So why does Palpy tell Rey this little nugget of info when it would seemingly make her less likely to actually ?dew it? and she was already 100% committed to doing so before he told her?

Because he's Palpatine that's why. :) It's no different than when he *interrupted* Luke finishing off Vader in ROTJ to start laughing and bragging about how Luke was about to become the very thing he hated most. Idiot! Just let Luke finish the job and *then* brag you moron, lol. But that's Palps for you.

You know what it doesn?t matter because Rey goes on to kill Palps anyway when she reflects his own force sparkles back in his face with the intent to kill him. But the movie seemingly ignores its earlier promise of Reypatine or does it? duh duh duh.

I concede that asking why Palps doesn't possess Rey when he dies is a valid question, however I don't think it's a huge leap to think that it either didn't work because:

1. She wasn't resisting him out of anger or hatred which he indicated was a prerequisite for the ritual to work.
2. The arrival of the Jedi Spirits were a substantial enough barrier preventing his spirit from entering her body.
3. Super Dyad-powered Lightning Man was blasting Rey with such power that when it was reflected back at him it destroyed not only his physical form but his spirit as well which means there was nothing left to even try and possess Rey with.

I think that option #1 is the simplest and easiest assumption to make but it's kind of fun to allow for either of the other two.

The only logical in movie conclusion you can draw from this is that Palpy must have knowingly continued zapping her because he knew that the sparkles redirected from Rey would kill him. Yay Palps wins and now he force jumps into Rey. At the end of the movie what we actually see is the Empress Reypatine burying the lightsabers of his vanquished foes just like he was about to bury their legacy by usurping their name and shaping a future of pain and suffering as a Skywalker [insert evil cackle here].

Yeah it would have been crazy if they just kept going full "horror movie" right to the end and the big twist is that he *did* live on in Rey.

"Rey who?"

*She smiles*

"Rey Palpatine." (eyes turn yellow)

lol
 
Based on the "rock rolling down a hill" principle.



Your entire thesis is summed up with a whole series of interconnected "maybes" that literally go against the trajectory of every scene that you're offering as proof of your interpretation.



I appreciate that you're admitting that you're literally pretending that all of these made up scenarios that would have completely invalidated Ben's redemption with no actual basis for those scenarios to occur. I have a feeling that that's all I can hope for at this point, but I'll take it. "But you're pretending too Khev." Well, there are different levels of "pretend." My assumption for how things would have played out is the common sense take that if you see a rock rolling down a hill it will simply continue rolling until it reaches the bottom of the hill. Your take *demands* that you inexplicably assume that the rock will stop mid roll, turn around, and start rolling *up* the hill.

Yes I'm assuming that if Ben didn't arrive that Rey would have killed Palpatine and allowed herself to be possessed on the off chance (her only chance) that she could still maintain enough control of her own will that she could order the Sith fleet to stand down and spare the Resistance. *That* was the literal scenario that Palps presented to her, she toke note of all of her options (or lack thereof) and *visibly nodded in compliance* after seeing no other way to help her friends. The rock was rolling downhill, every scene was moving in the direction that she would follow through had Ben not arrived so yeah, I'm not going to "pretend" that every moment building up to that was a lie and things were about to do a complete 180 just so that I can maintain that the movie was "stupid."

You're free to believe or assume whatever you want obviously but you're literally fabricating "maybe" scenarios out of thin air that nothing in the film even hinted at just to maintain the narrative that the movie sucked. More power to ya if that's what you prefer but I'm not going to recontextualize that actual movie into something else just to turn it into something lame.



Yes it literally would have. See above.



Throw out as many "apparently's" and "somehows" as you want as if it is ridiculous for there to be magical powers in a fantasy story (that were "apparently" always allowed until now) but at least those were elements that appeared in the film's on-screen narrative and weren't simply made up to twist it into something else.



Option A gave her a chance to have some control over the fleet and save her friends. Option B would do nothing except piss him off further. "Ha ha, I'm killing myself, you're stuck as a zombie crane puppet (until you simply sire another Force sensitive offspring.)" "Hmm, so be it. Okay Admiral Pryde, remember when I told you to destroy Kijimi to get the point across? When your fleet leaves wipe out another 10 planets please because this ***** just pissed me off." Making Palps mad isn't a "win." Far from it.

I don't know why it's so inconceivable for you that people can interpret these scenarios in different ways. What I base my interpretation on (as to what Rey would've done without Ben's redemption) is common sense *and* a prior precedent in a SW film. As far as I'm concerned, without Ben's presumed help, Rey would've eventually been left with just one option. The very same option that Luke was left with 30 years earlier in a very similarly desperate situation with Palpatine.

In ROTJ, Luke threw down his lightsaber rather than give Palpatine what he wanted. He essentially left himself defenseless (and thereby willing to die) rather than let Palpatine use him as a tool. And Luke had no reason to doubt that his friends were trapped on Endor, and that the Rebel fleet was doomed. But the choice was still to resist being an instrument of evil.

With that Luke context (and since you're a big fan of believing that Rey is an extension of the Skywalkers), why am I so crazy to believe that Rey might very well have taken the same approach as Luke - with friends in equal peril - to sacrifice herself rather than be an instrument of evil Palpatine? Because you somehow divined that she was thinking about how she might be able to "fight for control" after being possessed? And you don't see that as an interpretation that I can rightly question and disagree with?

You keep presuming that your interpretation is unassailable, and that I'm resorting to crackpot theories and wild leaps to justify my view of things. Wrong, buddy. The laziness of retreading OT plot beats means that certain decision-making parallels can be easily drawn. A confrontation with Palpatine saying "strike me down" has a precedent. If you're gonna say that Rey would've done the opposite of Luke, then I'd like to know what that says about Rey.

Ben stays evil:

Ignores his mother's call, kills Rey. He either blows up the Falcon (very easy to assume he'd want to take out his rage on Rey not joining him on the nearest target, ESPECIALLY knowing that that rat bastard Finn was nearby screaming her name.) Rey doesn't get his TIE's wayfinder, provides no way for the Resistance to reach the fleet.

Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that Lando buzzing Republic planets in a pleasure yacht broadcasting "follow my non-military craft into battle as I blindly search for the Sith Fleet with no coordinates" wouldn't have quite been enough to do the trick. :)



I have no problem saying that Kylo's turn began with Leia. Or do you really believe that he was "still evil" at that point and if Rey hadn't caught his saber that he would have what? Recomposed himself, apologized to Rey for the awkward pause and then fumbled around for his saber hilt at his feet before simply picking it up and resuming their duel?? No way, lol. He was done. His fight against the Light was gone. Now I do believe that at the point he was pretty much an empty shell and not ready to hop in an OT TIE (that "somehow" had a hyperdrive, grrrr) and rush off to Exegol. Rey's healing and Han's appearance definitely played huge roles in filling him with hope that he *could* benefit the Light in a significant way but him forsaking the Dark absolutely began with Leia's call. I don't see there being a viable way to interpret that scene otherwise.

Kylo paused, and Rey stabbed him. That's what was on screen, and it's simple. He didn't have any other option to collect himself and return to his efforts to defeat Rey. Why? Because he was ****ing stabbed by a lightsaber. That's why!

If you wanna say that his pause was evidence of turning to the light, go right ahead. But I don't think that interpretation has any merit. He paused because his mother was calling to him; just like he paused with his finger over the trigger in TLJ. Pausing doesn't equal being turned to the light. Pausing just means being distracted.

Rey stabbed him, healed his wound, walked away, and took his TIE; apparently not giving a **** what he chose to do with himself. If Kylo's conversation with Han didn't move him, all of the rest of what was going on would still play out the same.

Go ahead and dismiss what I'm saying because of whatever motive you attribute to my views, but you're only lying to yourself about it rather than having a constructive discussion about silly movies between two people who have an equally valid basis for their differing views.
 
Yeah it would have been crazy if they just kept going full "horror movie" right to the end and the big twist is that he *did* live on in Rey.

"Rey who?"

*She smiles*

"Rey Palpatine." (eyes turn yellow)

lol

Cue the music, roll credits on the "Skywalker" saga...
94bd1daa2728d55f9b1c697343a6db70.gif
9eabfaa02199a08fc389417217c276dc.gif


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I’m a Skywalker guys. I’ve went outside and looked at the sun and said Ducky Skywalker. So it’s official. I’m related to Luke and Anakin now. :yess:
 
:lol :lol



Exactly. It's the "Skywalker Saga" not "the Skywalker Blood Saga" or the "Skywalker DNA Saga." Rey may have Palpatine blood but the Saga ends with her *literally* a Skywalker. If Rey doesn't "count" then I can just as easily say that Ben doesn't count either because he's a "Solo" but that would be silly and nothing more than me adding a completely arbitrary level of granularity to the so called rules of what is and isn't legitimate.

You sound like some obsessed tumblr fan playing mental gymnastics but falling on every jump. This is utterly ridiculous. You have to be trolling us.


You claim Rey is literally a Skywalker. From out of thin air. All because she delusionally changes her last name due to the 15 minutes of screen time across 3 movies spent with Skywalkers who would actually want to make her change her name to theirs.

Then think you can say Ben isn't and think you can say it easily? When the dude's Mom is a Skywalker? :slap:slap:cuckoo:

Marrying into the Skywalker family or being adopted into the Skywalker family still puts you in the family.

Rey didn't do either of those.

And referring to the Skywalker family is clearly meant via blood relatives, that is why "the force is strong with my family" comes about. The force is genetic for the Skywalkers starting with Anakin. Rey is an abandoned sand clone baby originally meant to be an actualy nobody before the nostalgic wave to save this trilogy hit.

So, ultimately, you choose to ignore the OT that establishes this to prop up the ST.

And the ST is all about characters that are in the family with the focus of course being the Dyad with Ben having the blood but not the name and Rey ending with the name but not the blood. A nice little circle there.

The ST is about characters that are in the family? :slap:lol:lol:lol The 3 main heroes aren't in the family. Everyone actually in the Skywalkers family are killed off. Luke. Gone. Leia. Gone. Ben. Gone.

They killed off that bloodline. There will never ever be another Skywalker in the world ever again. Disney even ruined their own EU past TROS with that.


George is clearly *very* bitter about how his ideas were translated to the screen and I don't think for one second that he's capable of saying "wow, they made some choices that I didn't agree with but the end result is as good if not better than what I would have done." No way, whether he thinks that or would ever admit to himself that he thinks that doesn't matter because he's already shown that he isn't above trying to rally the troops against Disney's LFL by trying to "taint" their trilogy by openly complaining about it.

Or maybe it's because they suck. Like millions of others think.

But no, it's George being bitter.

Yes her biological parents loved her. Doesn't change the fact that she's still a Skywalker at the end. Not even just in name since the very "Force energy" that gives life to her bones is that which came from a biological descendant of Anakin himself.

:slap:lol:lol You are on tumblr! :lol:lol



Using this logic Anakin is actually Palpatine being that the life that comes from his bones was from Palaptine. So, Luke and Leia were Palpatines as well. And thus Kylo is a Palpatine. So Rey is a Palpatine after all.

See? I can play this game too. Much better than you.
 
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