Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Khev]

ajp is right. Hamill's public behavior the very week TLJ hit theaters was something we'd really only seen from the likes of Shia Lebouf. Poor company indeed and he should be ashamed of himself. Even Ahmed Best took it like a man and didn't air grievances *that actually made him suicidal* until almost decades later.

 

[Prime Clone]

Ahmed's situation was a little different - he didn't necessarily have a problem with his character or George's direction, just the public backlash that drove him into hiding.

I stumbled on the notorious 1999 issue of Rolling Stone recently - everybody seriously thought Jar Jar would be the next big thing!

 

[Khev]

Ahmed's situation was a little different - he didn't necessarily have a problem with his character or George's direction, just the public backlash that drove him into hiding.

I stumbled on the notorious 1999 issue of Rolling Stone recently - everybody seriously thought Jar Jar would be the next big thing!

He is a big thing though!

Would totally have a beer with Ahmed *and* buy a HT Jar Jar.

 

[Prime Clone]

^ Word.

Jar Jar even gets some love (kinda) in the latest SW comic:

 

[YoNoSe]

ajp is right. Hamill's public behavior the very week TLJ hit theaters was something we'd really only seen from the likes of Shia Lebouf. Poor company indeed and he should be ashamed of himself. Even Ahmed Best took it like a man and didn't air grievances *that actually made him suicidal* until almost decades later.

You just associated Luke Skywalker with Mutt Williams and Mark Hamill should be ashamed of himself?!

You’re dead to me until tomorrow.

 

[Khev]

Well hopefully you're on the East Coast.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Do you have any idea how many truly crappy and embarrassing movies that respected actors have been in while still managing to avoid saying anything negative about them? Particularly during *promotion*!?

Every actor understands the implied (if not explicit) expectation when promoting a film: you don't have to lie during press junkets and interviews, but you also don't have to divulge your own negative feelings. That kind of thing is so easily avoidable. They're just there to promote the film (and getting paid to do it!).

No one puts a gun to an actor's head forcing him/her to do a certain movie. When they sign the contract, and accept the money, they should understand that means promoting the film no matter what they personally (and subjectively) feel about how things play out in it. After that's done, you can say whatever you want about it.

Hamill isn't the first actor to disagree with a filmmaker's vision. But, they don't take that public during *promotion* for the film! Hamill wouldn't need to praise anything disingenuously, but he should've felt a professional responsibility not to stir the pot unnecessarily either. So yeah, I think it was indeed unprofessional.

Unprofessional? I imagine KK, RJ, and some studio execs thought so.

But actually it was raw honesty, and it was refreshing to see someone in his position actually speak his mind instead of just towing the company line . His reaction speaks to how truly awful he felt the film is(and it's no secret here that I agree with him).

 

[ajp4mgs]

Unprofessional? I imagine KK, RJ, and some studio execs thought so.

But actually it was raw honesty, and it was refreshing to see someone in his position actually speak his mind instead of just towing the company line . His reaction speaks to how truly awful he felt the film is(and it's no secret here that I agree with him).

I'm glad that Khev brought up Shia Lebouf earlier. It reminded me to look up Harrison Ford's comment about that fool. Here's the exact quote:

"I think he was a ****ing idiot. As an actor, I think it's my obligation to support the film without making a complete ass of myself."


I think that sums it up pretty damn well. If an actor has a problem with something about a movie that he or she is in, then wait until the publicity and promotion portion is over before going public with it; because that's when your job that you got paid for actually ends. Until then, it is disrespectful to the people/studio paying the actor, to the writers, the directors, and to anyone else involved in the creative process.

Harrison Ford gets it. I don't know why it's so hard for others to get it. Professionalism for an actor isn't some nebulous concept; it's easy to understand. And most actors handle their professional responsibility the way they should. The way Ford describes. I think I'm safe in saying that Harrison Ford is more of an authority on what it takes to act professionally in the film industry than anyone outside of it.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I'm glad that Khev brought up Shia Lebouf earlier. It reminded me to look up Harrison Ford's comment about that fool. Here's the exact quote:

"I think he was a ****ing idiot. As an actor, I think it's my obligation to support the film without making a complete ass of myself."


I think that sums it up pretty damn well. If an actor has a problem with something about a movie that he or she is in, then wait until the publicity and promotion portion is over before going public with it; because that's when your job that you got paid for actually ends. Until then, it is disrespectful to the people/studio paying the actor, to the writers, the directors, and to anyone else involved in the creative process.

Harrison Ford gets it. I don't know why it's so hard for others to get it. Professionalism for an actor isn't some nebulous concept; it's easy to understand. And most actors handle their professional responsibility the way they should. The way Ford describes. I think I'm safe in saying that Harrison Ford is more of an authority on what it takes to act professionally in the film industry than anyone outside of it.

I don't know anything about the incident you are referring to regarding Shia Lebouf, honestly I barely know who he is. And Ford's statement was not directed at Hamill and certainly doesn't apply to him. Hamill didn't make an ass of himself. He simply voiced an honest and clear objection to the direction of the film/role. Despite his obvious issue with the part he did a terrific PROFESSIONAL job acting in the film, it's not as if he tanked or phoned it in.

It's also not as if Hamill is some extra on the set. He has been the face of Star Wars since the late 70's. He has had to wear that, the good and bad for decades and earned the right to disagree with an agenda driven director who was four years old when Hamill first became Luke Skywalker.

 

[loki2371]

I'm glad that Khev brought up Shia Lebouf earlier. It reminded me to look up Harrison Ford's comment about that fool. Here's the exact quote:

"I think he was a ****ing idiot. As an actor, I think it's my obligation to support the film without making a complete ass of myself."


I think that sums it up pretty damn well. If an actor has a problem with something about a movie that he or she is in, then wait until the publicity and promotion portion is over before going public with it; because that's when your job that you got paid for actually ends. Until then, it is disrespectful to the people/studio paying the actor, to the writers, the directors, and to anyone else involved in the creative process.

Harrison Ford gets it. I don't know why it's so hard for others to get it. Professionalism for an actor isn't some nebulous concept; it's easy to understand. And most actors handle their professional responsibility the way they should. The way Ford describes. I think I'm safe in saying that Harrison Ford is more of an authority on what it takes to act professionally in the film industry than anyone outside of it.

So, in your mind, professionalism is more important than integrity? Most actors most likely do lack integrity. But mostly out of greed, pride (they have rather large ego's) and the fear that speaking out will cost them their career.

Mark Hamill had/has the voice and the hearts of the fans. KK & Johnson basically told him to shut the f up when he voiced his opinion about this "Luke" character and the direction they had him going in, and that's not what the fans would want. They simply treated him as an actor, not someone to take seriously or give creative input. He seems to care more about the SW franchise than any one else at Disney. That in itself is sad. It wasn't just a paycheck to him like it is with most actors. Specifically Harrison Ford who has always been vocal about his character. I think he was politely saying "I told you so", as he well knew there would be ample backlash towards TLJ.

So, what you say Mark Hamill lacked in Professionalism, I say he made up for in spades with Integrity.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don't know anything about the incident you are referring to regarding Shia Lebouf, honestly I barely know who he is. And Ford's statement was not directed at Hamill and certainly doesn't apply to him. Hamill didn't make an ass of himself. He simply voiced an honest and clear objection to the direction of the film/role. Despite his obvious issue with the part he did a terrific PROFESSIONAL job acting in the film, it's not as if he tanked or phoned it in.

It's also not as if Hamill is some extra on the set. He has been the face of Star Wars since the late 70's. He has had to wear that, the good and bad for decades and earned the right to disagree with an agenda driven director who was four years old when Hamill first became Luke Skywalker.

The Shia Lebouf thing was after he criticized Crystal Skull. And he criticized it in a way that put blame on himself. Ford spoke out against those criticisms and gave that quote about supporting the film as an actor. I'm pretty sure that Ford knew full well that Crystal Skull was a pile of ****, but that the paycheck he took for it meant that he shouldn't call it a pile of **** when he's supposed to be getting people to go pay for tickets to see it.

Speaking of Ford, he was very clear to George Lucas that he didn't think the Han character should live to the end of ROTJ. He believed that Han's character arc had reached it's necessary conclusion, and that Han being in ROTJ would be superfluous. But Ford didn't make that known when promoting ROTJ. He didn't give the impression that he disagreed with Lucas, or that he was unhappy with being in the movie, or that it could've been better. He acted like a pro.

So, in your mind, professionalism is more important than integrity? Most actors most likely do lack integrity. But mostly out of greed, pride (they have rather large ego's) and the fear that speaking out will cost them their career.

Mark Hamill had/has the voice and the hearts of the fans. KK & Johnson basically told him to shut the f up when he voiced his opinion about this "Luke" character and the direction they had him going in, and that's not what the fans would want. They simply treated him as an actor, not someone to take seriously or give creative input. He seems to care more about the SW franchise than any one else at Disney. That in itself is sad. I't wasn't just a paycheck to him like it is with most actors. Specifically Harrison Ford who has always been vocal about his character. I think he was politely saying "I told you so", as he well knew there would be ample backlash towards TLJ.

So, what you say Mark Hamill lacked in Professionalism, I say he made up for in spades with Integrity.

Do you think there's a lot of integrity in accepting a paycheck from people and then going on to speak negatively about the product they need you to promote as part of your paid duties?

And if Hamill changes his tune in the future, which I suspect he will during Ep9 interviews, are you going to accuse him of losing his integrity?

I don't have a problem with Hamill having issues with TLJ, or with his character. And if he were making that public now, I'd have no problem with it. My issue is time and place. I think that promotion/publicity rounds while the studio is trying to get as much positivity as possible when the film rolls into theaters is the wrong time and place. Actors generally don't do what Hamill did. Not because they have no integrity, but because they understand that filmmaking is art. They agree to get paid to act someone else's story onto the screen. They also get paid to promote it without bringing negative attention to the film's opening. I think there's integrity in acting professionally.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Speaking of Ford, he was very clear to George Lucas that he didn't think the Han character should live to the end of ROTJ. He believed that Han's character arc had reached it's necessary conclusion, and that Han being in ROTJ would be superfluous. But Ford didn't make that known when promoting ROTJ. He didn't give the impression that he disagreed with Lucas, or that he was unhappy with being in the movie, or that it could've been better. He acted like a pro.

Nah, I knew as a kid in 1983 that Ford was "tired of the character", said he was one-dimensional and was aggravated that Lucas refused to kill him off. We all knew Ford wanted Han to die, and most everyone I knew back then agreed that Han should have died.

Ford never really held back. He always said George wrote mumbo-jumbo for him to speak in the original. Ford always had attitude about Star Wars. He loved Indiana Jones though.

Alec Guinness was another unprofessional actor who said he didn't like Star Wars and it was for people with poor minds (or something like that). But then he did two more appearances anyway.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Nah, I knew as a kid in 1983 that Ford was "tired of the character", said he was one-dimensional and was aggravated that Lucas refused to kill him off. We all knew Ford wanted Han to die, and most everyone I knew back then agreed that Han should have died.

He said that stuff while ROTJ was in theaters? If so, then I was absolutely wrong about Ford acting professionally. I stand corrected.

 

[Wor-Gar]

He said that stuff while ROTJ was in theaters? If so, then I was absolutely wrong about Ford acting professionally. I stand corrected.

Well media wasn't quite like media today. But I remember being well aware of it. As I said, he complained about George's dialogue from 1978 onwards. He was "feisty" I guess which went along with his persona and how they were trying to build Ford's 'style' too then though.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

The Shia Lebouf thing was after he criticized Crystal Skull. And he criticized it in a way that put blame on himself. Ford spoke out against those criticisms and gave that quote about supporting the film as an actor. I'm pretty sure that Ford knew full well that Crystal Skull was a pile of ****, but that the paycheck he took for it meant that he shouldn't call it a pile of **** when he's supposed to be getting people to go pay for tickets to see it.

Speaking of Ford, he was very clear to George Lucas that he didn't think the Han character should live to the end of ROTJ. He believed that Han's character arc had reached it's necessary conclusion, and that Han being in ROTJ would be superfluous. But Ford didn't make that known when promoting ROTJ. He didn't give the impression that he disagreed with Lucas, or that he was unhappy with being in the movie, or that it could've been better. He acted like a pro.

I would respectfully disagree that Ford necessarily acted like a total pro in ROTJ and I really like Ford as an actor. He looked bored/uninspired at times and has been low key criticized for it in the past. It's no secret he didn't want to do Star Wars after ESB, only he knows for sure why? Fear of being typecast, boredom, other projects, his relationship with Carrie? It's also no secret that Lucas wanted him alive to sell merch.

I certainly feel that Hamill delivered a better acting performance in TLJ than Ford gave in ROTJ. I am curious if you agree?

 

[Otomofan]

I was only disappointed that Mark was being as tactful and polite as he was. He should have been more honest. We know he thinks it sucked as much as we did.

 

[abake]

I have to agree that Hamill wasn't being very professional in being so outspoken about his dislike of the way the character was written, he probably should've left that for later, but in any case, he was way more professional than Ford in how -despite his reservations- he delivered a stellar performance.
I like some of Ford's characters (Solo, Indy, Deckard), but as a person, he does seem to be pretty ******.

 

[Khev]

I have to agree that Hamill wasn't being very professional in being so outspoken about his dislike of the way the character was written, he probably should've left that for later, but in any case, he was way more professional than Ford in how -despite his reservations- he delivered a stellar performance.

On that I definitely agree. Hamill isn't unprofessional with everything he does, it's definitely to his credit that he brought his A-game acting wise when it came to his performance despite his reservations. Too bad he couldn't have continued the class act just a bit beyond the release of the film. I don't think anyone (including fans of the film) would fault him for having his own passionate preferences about how his character was to be portrayed, I just wish he'd waited a little longer to air them like some of the other actors listed above, including Ford but also some prequel performers like Ewan McGregor and so on.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I would respectfully disagree that Ford necessarily acted like a total pro in ROTJ and I really like Ford as an actor. He looked bored/uninspired at times and has been low key criticized for it in the past. It's no secret he didn't want to do Star Wars after ESB, only he knows for sure why? Fear of being typecast, boredom, other projects, his relationship with Carrie? It's also no secret that Lucas wanted him alive to sell merch.

I certainly feel that Hamill delivered a better acting performance in TLJ than Ford gave in ROTJ. I am curious if you agree?

I don't question Mark's professionalism on the set of TLJ. I think he gave as good of a performance as he's capable of; and maybe even his best live-action performance ever. My only gripe with his professionalism is that I think he should've waited a while before making his reservations known. He should've known better as a professional actor; and at the very least, should've been more respectful to the people he seems to have good relationships with.

As for Ford's acting in ROTJ, I don't pin that all on HF. In general, I think the acting in ROTJ was spotty (even cringey at times). The scene with Leia and Luke on the Endor walk-bridge is one that I watch with an expression like I've just swallowed a shot of bleach. All the way through when Leia says to Han, "Hold me," I can't watch any of it without wishing the whole scene would just hurry up and be over with. I blame Richard Marquand for the spotty and often uninspired acting in ROTJ, including Ford's.

Part of a director's job is to motivate and inspire the actors to deliver the best performances they can, no matter how bad the dialogue, and no matter how tired/bored they might be of playing their characters. I don't think the main three actors in ROTJ were being motivated or inspired by Marquand as consistently or comprehensively as they should've been. Not their best work; and I put a lot of the blame for that squarely on the director.

In the TLJ "making of" documentary, Mark Hamill even talks about how much the director has to do with the performance. And he goes on to say something to the effect that if people think he (Hamill) did a great job in the movie, Rian should get all of the credit; and if people think he was awful, Rian should get all of the blame. Directors need to pull performances out of actors, even when it's an actor like a Harrison Ford. Having him spend so much time interacting with Ewoks didn't help the cause either.

 

[ironwez20]

Do you have any idea how many truly crappy and embarrassing movies that respected actors have been in while still managing to avoid saying anything negative about them? Particularly during *promotion*!?

Every actor understands the implied (if not explicit) expectation when promoting a film: you don't have to lie during press junkets and interviews, but you also don't have to divulge your own negative feelings. That kind of thing is so easily avoidable. They're just there to promote the film (and getting paid to do it!).

No one puts a gun to an actor's head forcing him/her to do a certain movie. When they sign the contract, and accept the money, they should understand that means promoting the film no matter what they personally (and subjectively) feel about how things play out in it. After that's done, you can say whatever you want about it.

Hamill isn't the first actor to disagree with a filmmaker's vision. But, they don't take that public during *promotion* for the film! Hamill wouldn't need to praise anything disingenuously, but he should've felt a professional responsibility not to stir the pot unnecessarily either. So yeah, I think it was indeed unprofessional.

Well your like a super fan of this movie so I suppose you wouldn’t understand that the guy who grew up with this character didn’t agree and had everything right to say what needed to be said. He basically made the character. To see it be destroyed in front of him was hard. Again you probably think it was a great send off and great representation of the character but to him and many others it wasn’t and he knew he had to say something