Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[cerealkeller]

I don't think Hamill hates the Last Jedi. He disagreed with his characters portrayal at first because it is not what HE thought his character would be doing 30 years later. Mark is a good guy and an okay actor but his ideas for the story and his character always seem....well bad. He is an actor, not a storyteller. But as he grew to understand the motivations for Luke given by Rian he seemed to come to an understanding about Rians vision. They seemed like they got along really well during interviews having a very playful back-and-forth.
Rian Johnson wanted to tell a story that wasn't about what was "Awesome! Badass!" He wanted to challenge the characters we grew up with and challenge the value of idol worship. Strip down these icons and show how Luke is not perfect, further amplifying character flaws he displayed in ANH, Empire and Jedi. This was shocking and completely why I love TLJ so much.
Hamill sounds like he now understands that his character is part of a myth that will always represent the challenge of going from adolescence to adulthood, and now from adulthood to accepting the failures of your past to pass on the lessons you learned good and bad.


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[ajp4mgs]

I don't think Hamill hates the Last Jedi. He disagreed with his characters portrayal at first because it is not what HE thought his character would be doing 30 years later. Mark is a good guy and an okay actor but his ideas for the story and his character always seem....well bad. He is an actor, not a storyteller. But as he grew to understand the motivations for Luke given by Rian he seemed to come to an understanding about Rians vision. They seemed like they got along really well during interviews having a very playful back-and-forth.
Rian Johnson wanted to tell a story that wasn't about what was "Awesome! Badass!" He wanted to challenge the characters we grew up with and challenge the value of idol worship. Strip down these icons and show how Luke is not perfect, further amplifying character flaws he displayed in ANH, Empire and Jedi. This was shocking and completely why I love TLJ so much.
Hamill sounds like he now understands that his character is part of a myth that will always represent the challenge of going from adolescence to adulthood, and now from adulthood to accepting the failures of your past to pass on the lessons you learned good and bad.


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Great post! Totally spot-on.

One thing that is hilariously misunderstood about Mark Hamill's comments regarding his reservations about Luke's character in TLJ is that it meant he thought the movie was crap. Wrong!! That's the biggest problem I have with the unprofessional nature of taking his reservations into the public discourse when people were still going to see it for the first time: people love to take things out of context to fit their own preferred narrative/opinion.

People who hate TLJ took Hamill's comments and twisted them to suggest that Mark hates TLJ too. Even to this day, some people are still pushing this line of bull. Hell, if you just read the last few pages, you'll see this very same type of statement. Even though Hamill has gone out of his way to praise TLJ, and talk up RJ, and explain that he eventually understood what the idea was with Luke, some people choose to ignore all of that because it makes them feel better to say that "Mark Hamill hated TLJ and knew it was crap." And when confronted with Hamill's explanation, they'll just say "he's just being told to say that by Disney." Yeah, whatever.

There's an article about a panel Hamill did with Johnson to screen the "making of" documentary. In it, Hamill is very clear about his feelings regarding TLJ. Here's a quote from it (I'm putting a section in bold that I think is most relevant to the recent discussion in this thread):

“Listen, I told Rian, I have lots of reeeaaally terrible ideas I’d like to share with you, and maybe from a thousand you’d find one or two you’d like. I was no different with George [Lucas]! I read Return Of The Jedi and said, ‘Wait a second, I thought I was heading toward the struggle of going to the dark side. I lost a hand, I’m now dressed in black, I’ve got a glove, you know, I see the trend here. But you’re just an assistant to the chef—he comes up with the recipe, we have to cook it and hope the audience finds it the most delicious thing they’ve ever tasted… I’m like a lot of you. I feel an investment in it, I feel a certain sense of ownership, which is a joke, because I don’t own it, Disney does”—another big laugh—“but you care. That’s what happens with these films. I’m sorry I lowered my guard and expressed my misgivings about it because that belongs in the process. That doesn’t belong to the public. And I made that statement before I saw the finished film… and I just think it’s a stunning film. It’s surprising, it’s challenging, it has humor, it’s probably the most complex Star Wars film since Empire, so… I had to put aside my feelings and try to realize the director’s vision the best I can.”

The whole article can be read here:

https://www.avclub.com/mark-hamill-regrets-ever-making-his-debates-with-rian-j-1823713825

I'd say it's definitely worth reading, but the people who want to keep spinning the "Mark Hamill thought TLJ was crap" line will stick to that no matter how wrong it is. There's nothing Hamill can say now to convince them that they're wrong; and that's why I wish he'd been smarter about his comments when TLJ came out. Even Hamill himself admits that what he said didn't belong in the public. And yet, some still don't want to concede that it was unprofessional. Um, okay.

 

[DiFabio]

I think all parties are at fault. Mark Hamill for agreeing to be in the sequels, then bad mouthing them. Rian Johnson for making a ****** movie. Disney and Kennedy for being inept and last, but certainly not least, George Lucas for selling Star Wars to Disney.

The franchise should have been allowed to die with dignity a long time ago.

 

[ironwez20]

I think all parties are at fault. Mark Hamill for agreeing to be in the sequels, then bad mouthing them. Rian Johnson for making a ****** movie. Disney and Kennedy for being inept and last, but certainly not least, George Lucas for selling Star Wars to Disney.

The franchise should have been allowed to die with dignity a long time ago.

Pretty much this. Now no one is interested in these characters or the story whatsoever, save for like a handful

 

[cerealkeller]

Great post! Totally spot-on.

One thing that is hilariously misunderstood about Mark Hamill's comments regarding his reservations about Luke's character in TLJ is that it meant he thought the movie was crap. Wrong!! That's the biggest problem I have with the unprofessional nature of taking his reservations into the public discourse when people were still going to see it for the first time: people love to take things out of context to fit their own preferred narrative/opinion.

People who hate TLJ took Hamill's comments and twisted them to suggest that Mark hates TLJ too. Even to this day, some people are still pushing this line of bull. Hell, if you just read the last few pages, you'll see this very same type of statement. Even though Hamill has gone out of his way to praise TLJ, and talk up RJ, and explain that he eventually understood what the idea was with Luke, some people choose to ignore all of that because it makes them feel better to say that "Mark Hamill hated TLJ and knew it was crap." And when confronted with Hamill's explanation, they'll just say "he's just being told to say that by Disney." Yeah, whatever.

There's an article about a panel Hamill did with Johnson to screen the "making of" documentary. In it, Hamill is very clear about his feelings regarding TLJ. Here's a quote from it (I'm putting a section in bold that I think is most relevant to the recent discussion in this thread):

“Listen, I told Rian, I have lots of reeeaaally terrible ideas I’d like to share with you, and maybe from a thousand you’d find one or two you’d like. I was no different with George [Lucas]! I read Return Of The Jedi and said, ‘Wait a second, I thought I was heading toward the struggle of going to the dark side. I lost a hand, I’m now dressed in black, I’ve got a glove, you know, I see the trend here. But you’re just an assistant to the chef—he comes up with the recipe, we have to cook it and hope the audience finds it the most delicious thing they’ve ever tasted… I’m like a lot of you. I feel an investment in it, I feel a certain sense of ownership, which is a joke, because I don’t own it, Disney does”—another big laugh—“but you care. That’s what happens with these films. I’m sorry I lowered my guard and expressed my misgivings about it because that belongs in the process. That doesn’t belong to the public. And I made that statement before I saw the finished film… and I just think it’s a stunning film. It’s surprising, it’s challenging, it has humor, it’s probably the most complex Star Wars film since Empire, so… I had to put aside my feelings and try to realize the director’s vision the best I can.”

The whole article can be read here:

https://www.avclub.com/mark-hamill-regrets-ever-making-his-debates-with-rian-j-1823713825

I'd say it's definitely worth reading, but the people who want to keep spinning the "Mark Hamill thought TLJ was crap" line will stick to that no matter how wrong it is. There's nothing Hamill can say now to convince them that they're wrong; and that's why I wish he'd been smarter about his comments when TLJ came out. Even Hamill himself admits that what he said didn't belong in the public. And yet, some still don't want to concede that it was unprofessional. Um, okay.

I actually listened to several interviews with Mark and Rian speaking together. The interview you are referring to is a SXSW interview and it's pretty fantastic.
https://youtu.be/YYMga3GHOZU

Watch the whole thing. Mark starts speaking about his horrible ideas around the 40 minute mark.


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[ajp4mgs]

Pretty much this. Now no one is interested in these characters or the story whatsoever, save for like a handful

Yes, a small handful will get Episode IX to make over $1 billion. Our tiny little group is going to go watch that film at least 10,000 times each (particularly on opening weekend, since no one else cares enough about the story to go see it right away). Then we'll each buy at least a thousand copies of the blu-ray to keep the charade going.

I just hope no one else figures this all out; that the ST will now actually be propped up by only a minuscule amount of fans. Much like the Resistance, we "The Handful" are all that's left. It's so sad. But we won't let you down, Disney! The Handful will make Episode IX profitable, dammit - all two dozen of us!

I actually listened to several interviews with Mark and Rian speaking together. The interview you are referring to is a SXSW interview and it's pretty fantastic.
https://youtu.be/YYMga3GHOZU

Watch the whole thing. Mark starts speaking about his horrible ideas around the 40 minute mark.


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Right on! I've never seen/heard the full interview, so I'll check it out later tonight. Thank you, sir!

 

[xipotec]

Unprofessional? I imagine KK, RJ, and some studio execs thought so.

But actually it was raw honesty, and it was refreshing to see someone in his position actually speak his mind instead of just towing the company line . His reaction speaks to how truly awful he felt the film is(and it's no secret here that I agree with him).

He got paid didn’t he? If anyone working for a major corporation bashed it latest product the week it came out , they would have been fired. So , yes, unprofessional. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. ALOT of people’s salaries are made up from the films profits.

I said this before , if Hamill was so upset with the way the film was going he could have quit and given up his payday for his moral quandary. Instead he chose to put other peoples paycheck on the line.....

Dont get me wrong, I like Mark, but he was WAY out of line with the way he handled the press stuff.



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[ironwez20]

Yes, a small handful will get Episode IX to make over $1 billion. Our tiny little group is going to go watch that film at least 10,000 times each (particularly on opening weekend, since no one else cares enough about the story to go see it right away). Then we'll each buy at least a thousand copies of the blu-ray to keep the charade going.

I just hope no one else figures this all out; that the ST will now actually be propped up by only a minuscule amount of fans. Much like the Resistance, we "The Handful" are all that's left. It's so sad. But we won't let you down, Disney! The Handful will make Episode IX profitable, dammit - all two dozen of us!



Right on! I've never seen/heard the full interview, so I'll check it out later tonight. Thank you, sir!

Dude look at this thread. There’s like 5 people here. That says a lot. You make up the majority of post in this thread. The movie was hated, your in the minority, episode 9 won’t get a fraction of the hype this or force awakens got. To even think so is hilarious. So yes a handful of people will be happy to see it. Which is cool you do you.

Also I knew you’d reply to my comment. As I posted it I said

“ watch that apj guy swoop in and say something smart “

 

[Prime Clone]

Oh well, if IX gets less than VIII it will just continue the trend. George always said each successive sequel earned less than the last.

 

[ironwez20]

In this case we know why

 

[abake]

I think it's always the 2nd that makes less than the 1st, but then the 3rd makes more than the 2nd again.

 

[Khev]

I think it's always the 2nd that makes less than the 1st

(couldn't resist, lol)

 

[cerealkeller]

Dude look at this thread. There’s like 5 people here. That says a lot. You make up the majority of post in this thread. The movie was hated, your in the minority, episode 9 won’t get a fraction of the hype this or force awakens got. To even think so is hilarious. So yes a handful of people will be happy to see it. Which is cool you do you.

Also I knew you’d reply to my comment. As I posted it I said

“ watch that apj guy swoop in and say something smart “

Maybe because the people that like the movies are tired of hearing from the same folks who bash the film, say they "don't care about it" anymore yet continually post about how much they don't care. And how no body cares about Star Wars anymore because that person and those who love to post about much they hate SW and don't care about it anymore fill the thread. It's obnoxious. So most of those I know who still love SW don't bother to post. It's annoying, like a child who just likes to complain about everything.

So there you go. Go post away about how much you don't care about SW anymore. You do you man.


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[generalszabo]

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch this film again since the cinema. Maybe I will like it more when I rewatch it, but the bad parts stick out in my mind. If JJ had done all 3 we would have been in business, hopefully he can redeem the trilogy but is a tough ask

 

[ironwez20]

Maybe because the people that like the movies are tired of hearing from the same folks who bash the film, say they "don't care about it" anymore yet continually post about how much they don't care. And how no body cares about Star Wars anymore because that person and those who love to post about much they hate SW and don't care about it anymore fill the thread. It's obnoxious. So most of those I know who still love SW don't bother to post. It's annoying, like a child who just likes to complain about everything.

So there you go. Go post away about how much you don't care about SW anymore. You do you man.


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Nah maybe they loved the franchise and don't like the direction it's going so they have a right to say whats on ther mind. Maybe it's good to hear different opnions instead of staying in a little positivity bubble with 3 other people acting like it was great. It's fine if star wars fan hated the movie and it's fine if you like it. We can discuss the pros and cons without some super fan jumping down out throat.

And I do care about star wars....thats why im here. I love it and i can discuss it and I feel the direction it's going is killing the brand. So yea. Do you.

Also this thread isn't even being bombarded with hate. It's nothing but you,ajp and like 3 others talking about how much you like the movie. This isn't as bad as when the movie first came out so stop.

 

[abake]

(couldn't resist, lol)

But didn't ESB make less than ANH? And AOTC make less than TPM?

 

[YoNoSe]

Well hopefully you're on the East Coast.

I like math, math doesn't like me.

 

[xipotec]

Somebody.....actually alot of somebodies, bought the DVD/Blue Ray
https://variety.com/2018/digital/n...ops-dvd-blu-ray-disc-sales-charts-1202748275/

This forum is not a good example or the overall popularity of any film.....


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[Star-Crunch]

Watched it a third time last night. Seriously, not bad. Reminds me of Iron Man 3, where each time a watched it, I liked it more and more.

 

[noisetrigger]

Nah maybe they loved the franchise and don't like the direction it's going so they have a right to say whats on ther mind. Maybe it's good to hear different opnions instead of staying in a little positivity bubble with 3 other people acting like it was great. It's fine if star wars fan hated the movie and it's fine if you like it. We can discuss the pros and cons without some super fan jumping down out throat.

And I do care about star wars....thats why im here. I love it and i can discuss it and I feel the direction it's going is killing the brand. So yea. Do you.

Also this thread isn't even being bombarded with hate. It's nothing but you,ajp and like 3 others talking about how much you like the movie. This isn't as bad as when the movie first came out so stop.

It is funny how a lot of people in this forums like to think they are the vocal majority when they are barely a speck in the dust.

The numbers doesn’t lie, TLJ still made a lot of money, so much that it is the second highest grossing SW movie (and lets be frank, no matter how TLJ turned out it will never make TFA money).

So despite whatever your personal opinion is about the movie, TLJ is a financial success and that is all that matters in the business.

And yes, Mark Hamill is indeed very unprofessional with his conduct during the press tours. I will even go as far as saying that his comments did have the effect of giving fanboys more bullets to hate on the ST and it helps escalate the negative press by given them more fuel. One common justification I always hear about TLJ hate is that Hamill hates it too so I must be right!!!

I feel that there is a lot of myth about the movie business that a lot of you just want to blindly believe.

Spend a day in a movie set and it will be a severed wake up call.

I work in the industry and the saying never meet your heroes is truer than ever.

Acting at the end of the day is just a job. Actors work for a paycheck. Everything they do is so that it will lead to something else, something that pays even more.

An actor will wax lyrical about doing it for the arts and passion but let’s see RDJ do a marvel movie for free cause he is “passionate” about it.

It is so easy to forget that unless the actor is a producer, he is just a hired gun to realized the director’s vision. If an actor doesn’t understands that they won’t get very far in their career. Sure he can have feedback and input but at the end of the day it is the director’s call cause you know you accepted money to do a job like how if you accept my money, you are supposed to make the burger the way I want it not how you think I want it.

I will even go as far as saying that because Luke is such an integral part of SW, Lucasfilm gave Hamill way too many free passes for his comments. If he was a newer actor, he would have been booted from the next movie or taken off the press tours.

In the hate for Disney, it is so easy to not see the amount of respect Disney and Lucasfilm has accorded Mark Hamill. Despite not starring in the movie, he was given the spotlight, the attention, top billing, and he was featured on Celebration as THE Legend. They even gave him a Hollywood star. If anything Disney has given him everything that he never gotten from Lucasfilm back then. It is so easy to forget that the SW movies while making him popular with SW fans also typecasted him in the industry and basically hindered his career and doomed him to cameo and bit parts for much of his career. Sure he had success in voice acting but any actor will tell you they rather make it as an actor than a voice actor. You are a voice actor precisely because you didn’t make it as an actor and that is the cold hard truth.