I’ll take Kylo/Rey vs Red Guards any day over Anakin riding a lava bot in a battle that went on 10 minutes too long and that had a twirling lightsaber duel.
Lets not forget leaping Yoda on crack.
Fact!!
First, i'm probably going to disagree with you for bringing up SJW identity politics as a negative thing. I mean if you don't believe in social justice or equality, then thats your problem. This label of "SJW" as a negative thing just seems so out of whack to me. Same with people who are against feminism.
I am not going to touch this as there is no way to not get into a long discussion over this... But there are varying degrees of Feminist out there.. Usually the loud ones get the most press and thus paints a bad picture. As for SJW.. The term tends to be aimed at people who are nothing like "social justice or equality"
Rian Johnson said before the movie came out that he wanted to push these characters to their limits after they'd been stripped of nearly every advantage. That's not "agenda pushing" it's simply good drama.
Did he though?? Did He??
Personally I just don't see it. Empire pushed its characters to the limits... The ramifications in this film probably can be ignored in the next film because they are so small.
Poe is a weakened male? No he was a cocky pilot that could previously do no wrong until...things started to go wrong. So we got to see how he reacted when the chips were down. When every suggestion and maneuver he made *didn't* save the day. And that allowed him to grow.
Poor writing did mean to do this but Poe did save the day when he destroyed the Dreadnaught... Had he not then after the first jump to light speed the fleet would have been taken out by the Dreadnaughts.. Poe should have felt Vindicated.. I know that it ended up just being luck that it worked out.. But I still find it funny..
But somehow his decision to take out the Dreadnaught is seen as worse then the Decision of Rose to take out Finn.. Rose was just as lucky that Luke showed up.
Rey was stripped of her hope that the mystery of her parents would in and of itself give her life purpose and a sense of belonging.
I guess... Hard to feel bad for someone who has not seen her parents in almost 15 years.. Get over it
Compare this low point in her life to finding out Vader is your father.
And Johnson dared to strip even the great Luke Skywalker of his "legendary" status, to actually give him a real arc and give him an opportunity to prove himself when it wasn't all about him being the Chosen One's son and the galaxy's last hope.
Just cant agree here. Sorry.. I am not even a huge Luke fan. What Arc am I seeing.. I see one in the OT but not so much here.
Luke never did any action in the OT because he was the Chosen one.. HE was not a selfish character in the OT.. Come on Khev
This was not an incoherent film. It was a race against the clock/chase movie (Resistance ship trying to outrun Snoke's fleet) with all the heroes working toward the goal of saving the fleet. Heroes that were brought down to zero and forced to climb up again. A pretty straight forward narrative.
Slowest most non exciting chase ever... You see them as brought down to zero... I mean we never had anytime to feel their pain. They were back up in no time.
Rey - Your Parents were nobody Gets on ship and saves the day.
Poe - Gets knocked out by Blaster and wakes up on ship for making a bad call because Dern is a poor leader.
Finn - Del Toro Betrays him.
IMO other then POE TFA did a better job at taking people to their Lows.
I fail to see how the film's "messages" were overtly left-wing. The evil of what Luke was contemplating against a sleeping Ben Solo should hit WAY closer to home for Pro-Choicers than anyone on the right. Also calling out the evil of making deals that fund terrorist organizations. Not exactly a "Pro-Obama" message now is it? So conservatives can just chill out about the messaging. I don't think this film was meant to be partisan anyway. Last I checked animal cruelty isn't a left vs. right issue. Nor is greed, genocide, slavery, etc. So I'm okay if the film's morale is that "bad things are bad," lol.
It was the Chewie should be a Vegan, that Animals get saved but child slaves don't.. That the rich were the most evil people in the galaxy. Also there are people on the left who really did see this film as showing that men are an emotional mess who cant make a good decision and need a woman to be the voice of reason.
Personally I have no issues with any of this... IF it is told in a better way.. I thought the Chewie Vegan joke was a good way.. Had the Evil rich been done better I would have no issue with its message.. It just felt out of place and was there really for no reason other then in todays political climate being rich = evil no matter how you get your money. As for cruelty to animals.. I just laugh when everything is OK because the animals got away even thought there are child slaves back in the town.
Again if done in a good way and not a corny way I would be into it..
Not sure I get your Pro Choice comment..
I don't mind films reflecting current political events if they aren't preaching or lecturing in a divisive way. In that regard Holdo can represent Hillary OR Trump because it presents her as a leader who is not the characters' first choice and one that appears incompetent or even traitorous. But rather than using her to say Hillary = bad or Trump = bad it does what good escapist entertainment should do and says "what if you were wrong about that leader you hate (on either side) and he/she turned out to be surprisingly awesome when it mattered the most?" We should all agree that that would be pretty cool, on screen and off.
I did not see any Trump or Hillary moment there.. Just a leader who was in no way a good leader.. All sorts of things she could have done that smarter writers would have seen. (Communicate with the crew, send ships off in different direction in light speed, Send a medical ship into hyperspace as a weapon if it running out of fuel and the pilot is going to die any ways.)
Also.. Since when do these ships need a pilot?? There is no auto pilot? (we have seen it with the Falcon no?) No Droids to drive the ship?? Seems like even in a heroic death she was stupid.
Getting back to Luke, his moment in Ben's tent isn't nearly as sacrilegious as many are making it out to be. Hell it's basically what Yoda and Ben were pretty much advocating in the OT. "Kill an evil family member for the greater good." It's what Ben wanted him to do to Vader when they chatted in ROTJ. And Yoda and Ben urged him to sacrifice Han and Leia in ESB. And if TPM had featured a scene where Qui Gon or Obi-Wan got a future vision of what little Anakin would become, and we as the audience already KNEW it would all come true because we watched the OT, would we think they were losers for being tempted to just off the kid right there? Would it be "right" to do? No, of course not, but it is an interesting dilemma that few films would dare to ask.
I am with you.. I have no real issue there.. I have more of an issue that Snoke, who we end up knowing nothing about, was able to make Ben evil in anyway form across the galaxy.
And at the end of the day Luke did NOT follow through with harming Ben, and because Luke is Luke the very knowledge that he even considered it haunted him for years. Ballsy, poignant, and tailor made for one hell of a comeback.
Yep no issues really.
Sure he could have been presented like Yoda and Ben were in the OT. Simple supporting badasses with virtually no arcs of their own. And it would have ticked off the box for many simply wishing to see Luke unleash a bunch of badass powers and moves and nothing more. But I'm pretty damn impressed (blown away actually) that Johnson dared to bring such a hero down to the point where he was pretty much lost and begging for help in the snow on Hoth again, hell I'd say he was even brought lower than that. There's a lot of risk in making such an attempt to give such an established character such a full arc again but that was a worthy endeavor and I think that both Johnson and Hamill did a hell of a job in pulling it off
You defiantly got more out of this arc then I did.. Luke does not want to be part of the Rebellion because of what happened in the past.. Basically ends up not being part of the rebellion and tells Ben he is sorry. He is ultimately still in hiding and dies because... Plot point.
But as always Khev it was a great read and I wish I saw the film you did.. You make great points just ones that I have a very different opinion on.
The dark side is too strong in me
